Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux

[Godzilla2000]

I think what you have to remember though is that the script should not be considered canon and what made it into the theatrical print of the movie should.

 

[elizah72]

I think what you have to remember though is that the script should not be considered canon and what made it into the theatrical print of the movie should.

Oh, of course, but it's interesting that it was in there, and either it was changed because they decided not to go that direction, or they decided to remove it because it was making it all too obvious and wanted to reveal something in a later film. Either way will have to wait and see. (over a whole year at least!!!! )

 

[American Maid]

I think what you have to remember though is that the script should not be considered canon and what made it into the theatrical print of the movie should.

True, although the script to which we are referring is very close to what was in the film.

It's also close on the deleted scenes.

But you are right that none of what we speculate on is actual *canon*. It is all interesting and fun to talk about, and this particular item strikes me as quite plausible. But something may well be revealed later that contradicts this idea.

 

[jaqua99]

And to continue my "I think Loki is only half frost giant" rant, if anyone is interested. I was looking at the original script for Thor recently. Odin refers to in the confrontation scene as Loki as "You are my son. My blood". That is wording that is certainly indicating blood relation, isn't it? In the scene where Loki plays Laufey later on, he does reveal to Laufey who he is and Laufey calls him "the bastard son" and doesn't seem to care about him at all. Why would he say and act like that if Loki were the child of Laufey and his wife? The answer is, at least in this early script, he isn't. He isn't even legitimate to Laufey here. I've also heard Tom and Kenneth refer to Loki as the bastard son, illegitimate son, in interviews before, which didnt make sense to me based on what I'd seen in the film and what I know Loki's parentage is supposed to be in myth and comics, unless they are subliminally giving away future Thor spoilers.

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Thor.html

There is alot of reaching here my friend. I can, and WILL counter everything you have said here

1. The "my blood part didn't happen" so the fact that it MAY indicate some blood relation is irrelevant, cause we have to remember, what is in the film, is Canon. Also, given the context of the emotion scenario, it very well could have been Odin saying that for emphasis, to prove a point. Either way, it doesn't matter

2. "In the scene where Loki plays Laufey later on, he does reveal to Laufey who he is and Laufey calls him "the bastard son" and doesn't seem to care about him at all. Why would he say and act like that if Loki were the child of Laufey and his wife?"

Ok, come on, this is just some wishful thinking :P

The Bastard son could be fore many reasons, one, this child was stolen from me, by my enemy Odin, and raised by MY enemy. My child all along has thought that MY enemy is his father. Given how Laufey seemed to be in this movie, and how Loki was just a baby, it makes sense that he calls him the bastard son. That term seemed metaphorical in a way. This is why he would say it. It seemed to be more of a dig at Odin.

3. This is how it is in the movies. It may be homage, and given how Tom has discussed his roll in the avengers he seems to be very overly descriptive.

I'm sorry, but to sum this up, there is just a lot of wishful thinking here :/

I continue to think you're onto something . Here's another moment in the script that supports you: earlier in the scene you mention, the confrontation between Odin and Loki, Odin describes the baby he found as "Small for a giant's offspring." While there was much discussion over in the spoilers thread as to how tall exactly the Frost Giants are, all agree they are taller than Asgardians.

Now, I'm not certain the myths add clarity on this particular point. In the myths, Laufey is Loki's *mother* (and it's unclear whether she is a Frost Giant). His father in myth is Farbauti, a Frost Giant. (And for that matter Loki is Sleipnir's *mother*, from when he took the form of a mare)

I'll also note that in the script we're quoting, Odin specifically calls Loki Laufey's son, and Loki later greets him as "father".

But none of that takes away from the implication that Loki may be only half-Frost Giant!

Loki greats him as Father later on because of the scenario of the scene, and what has taken place. Lol didn't you guys learn about context clues growing up in school? I hate to be the realist to spoil it all. I want loki to be half frost giant as well, but CLEARLY he is not. Not in the MCU. Its fact, and as of right now, nothing says otherwise

I think what you have to remember though is that the script should not be considered canon and what made it into the theatrical print of the movie should.

yup, that's just part of it

 

[jaqua99]

Lol I don't understand how some of you people are anticipating Loki's role, parentage, and well, role SOO much, when we have Thor, the 9 realms, dark elves, an army, Malekith...KURSE! and Possibly Surtur!!! There is sooo much great stuff going on, that SOO tied to simonson's run, and your biggest anticipated part is Loki....yeeeesh you guys :P I just can't wait to see basically the simonson run onscreen!

Though hopefully if there is a battle...whenever, with thor, loki, and odin againnst surtur, I hope we get the classic "FOR ASGARD!" "FOR MIDGARD!" "FOR MYSELF!"

 

[Godzilla2000]

I'm just hoping for a great death scene for Odin if the rumor is true and a very meaty, dramatic scene for Tom to act out as Loki in the aftermath. I will be a very happy Loki fangirl just to see such operatic level tragedy in this film. I think I've stated this before in another thread but without Odin to deprogram Loki from all the damage that Thanos inflicted upon him Loki will be in a pretty dire state of mind, perhaps setting up the events that lead to Ragnarok.

 

[elizah72]

Lol I don't understand how some of you people are anticipating Loki's role, parentage, and well, role SOO much, when we have Thor, the 9 realms, dark elves, an army, Malekith...KURSE! and Possibly Surtur!!! There is sooo much great stuff going on, that SOO tied to simonson's run, and your biggest anticipated part is Loki....yeeeesh you guys :P I just can't wait to see basically the simonson run onscreen!

Though hopefully if there is a battle...whenever, with thor, loki, and odin againnst surtur, I hope we get the classic "FOR ASGARD!" "FOR MIDGARD!" "FOR MYSELF!"

Well it's the Loki-Tom Hiddleston Thread, so one would assume we'd not be chastised for discussing and doing some wishful thinking about his upcoming role in Thor 2 here. :-/ Would you rather people go back to drooling over him shirtless and discussing his physical attributes? If so, I can do that, I really can.

 

[elizah72]

There is alot of reaching here my friend. I can, and WILL counter everything you have said here
2. "In the scene where Loki plays Laufey later on, he does reveal to Laufey who he is and Laufey calls him "the bastard son" and doesn't seem to care about him at all. Why would he say and act like that if Loki were the child of Laufey and his wife?"

Ok, come on, this is just some wishful thinking :P

The Bastard son could be fore many reasons, one, this child was stolen from me, by my enemy Odin, and raised by MY enemy. My child all along has thought that MY enemy is his father. Given how Laufey seemed to be in this movie, and how Loki was just a baby, it makes sense that he calls him the bastard son. That term seemed metaphorical in a way. This is why he would say it. It seemed to be more of a dig at Odin.

Of course there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here. That's what we're all here for isnt it? to speculate and discuss our favorite characters and what role if any they will have, and what we hope to see? Nothing wrong with it, and I could be completely wrong, and so what? Nothing's been said about Loki's role, so all we can do is speculate.

I do have to address the above, Look at the scene again. (and no, again, of course this is NOT canon, but still interesting that it was in the early drafts). The first thing Laufey calls him when Loki reveals himself is "the bastard son" then goes onto say how he thought Odin had killed him as a baby.

Definition of BASTARD - noun

1: an illegitimate child
2: something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3 a : an offensive or disagreeable person —used as a generalized term of abuse
b : man, fellow

Synonyms: by-blow, love child, ****eson

Definition of Bastard - adjective

1: illegitimate
2: of mixed or ill-conceived origin <known for coining bastard words>
3: of abnormal shape or irregular size
4: of a kind similar to but inferior to or less typical than some standard
5: lacking genuineness or authority : false

Bastard, first meaning, original meaning, illegitimate child, child born out of wedlock, meaning that he is the result of a union Laufey had with someone he was unmarried to and probably has a great deal of disregard towards, judging by his treatment the resulting child here. If Frost Giants didnt marry at all, then any children of Laufey's would be bastards in the Asgardian's eyes, but it wouldnt be something that Laufey himself would throw out as an insult, since he wouldnt care about that. Next point, these otherworld characters use old definitions of words, not modern ones. What do you think Thor's response would be if someone on modern day Earth called him a "lucky bastard"? he'd likely say, "Do you dare sully my mother's name and question her honor?!" and then bash them over the head with Mjolnir.

In this early version of the script Laufey did abandon Loki to die. Now the second meaning of bastard, and the ones under adjective (3, 4, 5) granted, could certainly apply to Loki instead and be a believable insult that Laufey would throw out (I suppose), and yet have him still be full frost giant just small/inferior, but I say again. Those characters are more apt to be using the original meaning. And again, they really didnt make him up to look like a FULL frost giant in the film, just small yet keeping more human features, and that is Canon. They needed to do a lot more than just turning his skin blue to make that believable that he's just a tiny Frost Giant. if he is, they need to show him change fully (no hair, make up his forehead and face to look like Laufey more. The fangirls may not like it, but it would need to be done) and he'd need to display some Frost Giant powers, which he has yet to do. This way we'd really see he is, or they need to explain why and how he is not (preferably in the next film). I am obviously leaning towards seeing the latter happen. I would have thought he would have changed fully when attacking Heimdall, but maybe not.

Now I actually dont like this version of this scene because I really really like the bit of acting done when Laufey says "you know not what your actions will unleash. I do." There is a sadness on his face there, and makes you wonder if that and the murderer comment about Odin is because he believed his infant child, that he did care about and didn't abandon was murdered, and not taken by Odin to raise. It brings depth to that character, and I like that. this version, he's just a well... a bastard (in the more modern meaning, lol...).


4th BLUE REVISIONS 03-26-10 76A.

LAUFEY
Ah, the bastard son. I thought
Odin had killed you. That's what I
would have done. He's as weak as
you are.

LOKI
No longer weak. I now rule Asgard,
until Odin awakens. Perhaps you
should not have so carelessly
abandoned me.
This gives Laufey pause.

LAUFEY
Or perhaps it was the wisest choice
I've ever made. I will hear you.

 

[jaqua99]

oh dear lol...

If anything, Odin's death should way mostly on Thor. If anyone. He has a much stronger relationship with his father, and the Odinforce comes in. But i don't want Odin to pass, just passing. He NEEDS to show how powerful he is, and his deaath needs to come at the hands of Surtur. Personally, I think it would be better if he dies with Surtur. Opposed to giving Thor a reason to avenge him, it sits much better.

 

[elizah72]

oh dear lol...

If anything, Odin's death should way mostly on Thor. If anyone. He has a much stronger relationship with his father, and the Odinforce comes in. But i don't want Odin to pass, just passing. He NEEDS to show how powerful he is, and his deaath needs to come at the hands of Surtur. Personally, I think it would be better if he dies with Surtur. Opposed to giving Thor a reason to avenge him, it sits much better.

Agreed, Odin needs to have a big show of power before he dies, IF he dies. And I dont want that either. I do think someone will die though, but I have my doubts it'll be either Odin or Loki. If Odin does die, I think they'd show it weighing heavily on both sons, as well as Frigga, but part of that too would depend on how they handle it and if either Thor or Loki are or feel at fault for his death.

And, okay so in the interest of being open minded, another way that the bastard line works, and yet he's still a full frost giant, is if Loki were raised believing he is (or everyone assuming) the bastard son of Odin (which could make sense since some in court would be wondering where this baby came from exactly, and there would be rumors going around the 9 realms about it, presumably). Then the bastard son line would be Laufey tormenting Loki because that's what everyone thinks of him all his life. But in that scenario, I feel like there really should have been a line like "so you raised me all this time, thinking I was your illegitimate bastard son, and all along I was the legitimate son of a king!" but that's JMO. So the line doesn't absolutely prove anything about his parentage, no. But still interesting when combining all the other factors...

 

[American Maid]

I'll also note that in the script we're quoting, Odin specifically calls Loki Laufey's son, and Loki later greets him as "father".

The Bastard son could be fore many reasons, one, this child was stolen from me, by my enemy Odin, and raised by MY enemy. My child all along has thought that MY enemy is his father. Given how Laufey seemed to be in this movie, and how Loki was just a baby, it makes sense that he calls him the bastard son. That term seemed metaphorical in a way. This is why he would say it. It seemed to be more of a dig at Odin.

Loki greats him as Father later on because of the scenario of the scene, and what has taken place.

Bastard, first meaning, original meaning, illegitimate child, child born out of wedlock, meaning that he is the result of a union Laufey had with someone he was unmarried to and probably has a great deal of disregard towards, judging by his treatment the resulting child here.

I originally thought elizah72 was suggesting that Loki was not biologically related to Laufey. So I was offering the "father" line of dialog as a counterpoint.

But I see that actually elizah72 is thinking Loki and Laufey are indeed biologically related.

Of course there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here. That's what we're all here for isnt it? to speculate and discuss our favorite characters and what role if any they will have, and what we hope to see? Nothing wrong with it, and I could be completely wrong, and so what? Nothing's been said about Loki's role, so all we can do is speculate.

Yeah, it's just all in good fun to think about what different possibilities there are. And I don't think any of us are wedded to any of it. I for one find interesting several plot turns that contradict each other, so can't possibly all wind up in the film Probably most, if not all, of it will turn out to be wrong, and I'm sure I'll enjoy what they come up with instead.

There is alot of reaching here my friend. I can, and WILL counter everything you have said here

Which can also add to the fun. Thanks!

 

[American Maid]

Lol I don't understand how some of you people are anticipating Loki's role, parentage, and well, role SOO much, when we have Thor, the 9 realms, dark elves, an army, Malekith...KURSE! and Possibly Surtur!!! There is sooo much great stuff going on, that SOO tied to simonson's run, and your biggest anticipated part is Loki....yeeeesh you guys :P I just can't wait to see basically the simonson run onscreen!

There's over a year yet before the picture opens. I'm sure we'll have time to get to all these other topics too, lol!

Though hopefully if there is a battle...whenever, with thor, loki, and odin againnst surtur, I hope we get the classic "FOR ASGARD!" "FOR MIDGARD!" "FOR MYSELF!"

Me too!! How could they not do that moment?

 

[ericadawn16]

Another fun thing to consider is that in the original myths, Odin had Frost Giant blood himself...

 

[American Maid]

Another fun thing to consider is that in the original myths, Odin had Frost Giant blood himself...

Ha! What a family!

 

[elizah72]

Tom at the London Film festival very recently and he is asked about working with Christopher E. on Thor 2, and he confirms that he does work with him, so should be scenes with Loki and Malekith to look forward to. (which I know, that was extremely likely anyway, just saying that confirm it)

http://youtu.be/R3bm-q7AYY4

As always seems like a lovely man, inside and out.

Edit: and another from the same event. He does not mention Thor 2 until the end and then it cuts off (not sure if there will be another continuing vid uploaded). Still a nice vid to watch for Hiddles fans, he talks about another upcoming role as a "low life" with Anna Paquin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv6MHhVr7-o

 

[elizah72]

Another fun thing to consider is that in the original myths, Odin had Frost Giant blood himself...

that is interesting, I doubt that would be the case in the movies but who knows. I have continued to wonder about why Odin would be constantly preaching about peace and "the horror and desolation of war" when he is a god of war, and from a culture of warriors. His son Thor "courts war" in his youth. And Odin's especially got his heart set on keeping the peace with Jotunheim, right from the beginning where he takes Loki as a baby. I mean... it's confusing to me, because you cannot be a war god and a war culture and not be ok with wars. Maybe someone else has some different ideas. The only thing I can think of is there will be something explaining some final straw that happened during the war with the Frost giants, that made him realize how horrific war really is, and that the peace must be kept at all cost so things like that dont' happen again. My *THEORY* on that would of course go along with the idea that Loki may be half Asgardian, and perhaps the son of a wife or sister or daughter of Odin, taken by Laufey as a war trophy. Would be pretty terrible and traumatic for a brother/husband/father to lose someone he loved, and it would give added reason for why he knew it was Laufey's son, and why he would take in the child of his enemy to love and raise as his own, and why he's so determined to have Loki rule the Jotuns and keep them from committing such horrors again.

(Much of this is wishful thinking I know! Dont need to tell me that!! ).

I'm obviously not one of those who think that Odin in the films, did not love Loki. I believe he absolutely does. I know the myth and comics have a different take, but that is clearly not what is on film. He looks at kid Loki when he says to the boys "one of you must defend the peace" (not exact quote, but close enough, and look at Tony's eye, clearly looking at kid Loki not kid Thor). He is heartbroken and so angry with his natural son that he strips Thor of his powers and banishes him for attacking Jotunheim. When he says, so devastated and heartbroken, "you are unworthy of the loved ones you have betrayed." then immediately there is a cut to Loki. I interpret that as Odin (and the director) feels that Loki has been betrayed by Thor's actions, because there is a war brewing now and Loki will no longer have his own place to rule. He says to the kids, "only one of you can ascend to the throne, but both of you were born to be kings". He was planning all along to give Loki his own kingdom to rule, but is heartbroken when he realizes that is no longer possible. So that's my explanation of why Odin is so set on peace, until I hear or see otherwise. LOL

Edit: adding he's so determined to keep peace with the Frost giants even to the point of not retaliating when they sneak into Asgard try to steal the casket and kill those guards. I mean Thor was right to be upset and want answers there but Odin wants to just ignore it. Presumably because he wants the peace to continue, so Loki, his adopted son, who he loves, will have his kingdom eventually when he's ready to rule. (who's he foolin'? Loki already RULES. LOL)

 

[American Maid]

I have continued to wonder about why Odin would be constantly preaching about peace and "the horror and desolation of war" when he is a god of war, and from a culture of warriors.

Everything he does, he does for a reason

Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

(I agree that there's probably something more in the backstory that make both Odin and Laufey know the full cost of war and hesitant to embrace it that the next generation fails to appreciate. And Odin is now set further back from his aim of lasting peace.)

 

[elizah72]

And on a lighter note, for Thor 2, will Thor "ever, not fall for that?" t:

 

[Lei D Loki]

I love that Thor falls for Loki's tricks. I want plenty of troll Loki in Thor 2!

 

[elizah72]

By the way, rewatched Avengers earlier and am amused by the fact that both Thor and Loki are asked *nicely* to put down their weapons and both respond basically with - "F that! you want a piece of me?!" *leaps into attack mode*

LOL.... ahhh... the brothers Odinson, so different and yet so similar.

I also continue to love Hemsworth's acting where he is trying so hard to get Loki back from this madness. It reminds me of a drug intervention scene, where a brother is trying desperately to get his brother clean and healthy again. Your heart breaks for Thor, he really wants things to go back as they were with his beloved little brother.

 

[jaqua99]

By the way, rewatched Avengers earlier and am amused by the fact that both Thor and Loki are asked *nicely* to put down their weapons and both respond basically with - "F that! you want a piece of me?!" *leaps into attack mode*

LOL.... ahhh... the brothers Odinson, so different and yet so similar.

I also continue to love Hemsworth's acting where he is trying so hard to get Loki back from this madness. It reminds me of a drug intervention scene, where a brother is trying desperately to get his brother clean and healthy again. Your heart breaks for Thor, he really wants things to go back as they were with his beloved little brother.

Different names...They can't both be odinson :P Loki Laufeyson





Autocorrect is ****

 

[elizah72]

Different names...They can't both be odinson :P Loki Laufeyson
Autocorrect is ****

I know that's what he's called in the comics, this is the film we're talking here. He doesnt actually know who is father is until Thor (in the film). and on that subject, seeing how he kills his own father, to impress his adopted father, I would really really question why he would ever take his name. Maybe by Avengers, after all he's been through he might (I suppose there could be a reason), but seeing as he still refers to himself as "Loki of Asgard" not "Loki Laufeyson" or "Loki of Jotunheim", I'd say he's not referring to himself (in the film) as Laufeyson. He doesnt want anything to do with that part of him, to the point of destroying all of the Frost Giants so their existence is erased completely, and he can go on pretending to be a full Asgardian (at the end of Thor 1)

By the way, I would have giggled madly if he appeared, after all that badassery at the beginning of Avengers if he said "I am Loki Laufeyson" *snerk* I'm sorry, it just sounds silly. Nick Fury would have burst out laughing.

Edit: and I will take back a little, I can see him calling himself Laufeyson (in the films) as part of a ruse to make the Frost Giants trust him (perhaps telling them Thor tried to destroy Jotunheim, not him), but it would be just a ruse, and part of a bigger plan to become king of the Asgardian mountain again. Up until now, I really feel that if anyone ever referred to him as Laufeyson, they would quickly find themselves dead. (Better watch out jaqua99!! )

 

[elizah72]

http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/05/0...ston-takes-on-seven-heroes-and-two-directors/

this very interesting Hiddleston interview was linked in another thread but thought it would be more appreciated here. Done last May. Some interesting talk about Loki in Thor 2 there, for sure. t:

 

[jaqua99]

I know that's what he's called in the comics, this is the film we're talking here. He doesnt actually know who is father is until Thor (in the film). and on that subject, seeing how he kills his own father, to impress his adopted father, I would really really question why he would ever take his name. Maybe by Avengers, after all he's been through he might (I suppose there could be a reason), but seeing as he still refers to himself as "Loki of Asgard" not "Loki Laufeyson" or "Loki of Jotunheim", I'd say he's not referring to himself (in the film) as Laufeyson. He doesnt want anything to do with that part of him, to the point of destroying all of the Frost Giants so their existence is erased completely, and he can go on pretending to be a full Asgardian (at the end of Thor 1)

By the way, I would have giggled madly if he appeared, after all that badassery at the beginning of Avengers if he said "I am Loki Laufeyson" *snerk* I'm sorry, it just sounds silly. Nick Fury would have burst out laughing.

Edit: and I will take back a little, I can see him calling himself Laufeyson (in the films) as part of a ruse to make the Frost Giants trust him (perhaps telling them Thor tried to destroy Jotunheim, not him), but it would be just a ruse, and part of a bigger plan to become king of the Asgardian mountain again. Up until now, I really feel that if anyone ever referred to him as Laufeyson, they would quickly find themselves dead. (Better watch out jaqua99!! )

well on the MCU's official Wiki (I know, kind of an oxymoron or whatever, because wiki's aren't anything official lol)

but it says Loki Laufeyson lol

 

[Doc Ock]

Laufeyson hehe!