Comics TPBs before Coming Home

[Styleshift]

Wow, Styleshift, that was an epic retelling. I agree the whole thing was a big gimmick, but I kinda like how the stalker went out. He killed himself because Peter's pain and trauma from years as Spider-Man was too much for any normal person to endure... even this lunatic. It says a lot about the kind of crap Peter's been through.

On the other hand.... kinda funny how both Mary Jane AND Aunt May's kidnappings were swept under the rug once that annual was over.

LOL thanks.
Wow, I have never looked at it that way before.

Well to be honest I know I poked fun at a couple of things. The psychic head butt of death was hilarious to me. If you really think about it, that would cause him pain as well since it's a physical pain inflicted to Peter.

But I remember I loved the stalker subplot for what it was back than.

When I read the story back than it was underwhelming because of how long it took me to finally see the ending and mainly because there was no shot at figuring out who the stalker was.

I think I remember rumors that it was intended to be Mary's father?

 

[Styleshift]

My Zinedine Zidane sense is tingling...

LOL for anyone who doesn't know what he's referring to.

Check this out. It's literally the same thing as the comic.

[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vF4iWIE77Ts&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vF4iWIE77Ts&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]

 

[Spider-Who?]

LOL for anyone who doesn't know what he's referring to.

Check this out. It's literally the same thing as the comic.

[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vF4iWIE77Ts&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vF4iWIE77Ts&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]

HAhaHAhaHA

 

[Spider-Who?]

No way. JMS never read a Spidey story except his own ones, the origin and the "death of Gwen Stacy." His understanding of Spider-Man was limited to only stuff he had written. The whole foundation of history that past creators had contributed was pretty much ignored (or misremembered when it was referenced... like Midtown High being in the city and not Queens). Plus, all the magic totem stuff.... yeah.

I'd have to respectfully disagree. It seems pretty obvious that Quesada began tightening his grip and forcing JMS's hand, when everything like Sins Past started coming out. I would find it hard to believe that JMS came running to JOe Q saying "I have a wonderful idea! Lets take Peter's most fan-adored love interest and completely ruin her name!"

No, I find it much more plausible that, given the impending Civil War, Joe Q wanted certain things played out in a given amount of time, to allow CW to fit in smoothly, and we all know everything that happens to Pete has to be horrible, so Sins Past (the rest after the death of Ezekiel) was born.

As far as continuity, little things like the location of a high school reall don't bother me in the slightest. As long as the main, important things are fine, its all good.

While I loved the new spin on the powers, even JMS pushed the idea that it doesn't change Spider-Man. The new angle was just a reason for new and mostly awesome baddies to spring forth. The very last line of dialogue after the death of Ezekiel says it all:

Tomorrow the sun will come up. You can tell me all the reasons of science that it does come up...And I will say that it will come up because it is meant to come up. I see no contradiction.

Its only when the mess of The Other (another Joe Q product if you ask me) that tried to shove an absolute answer down our throats.

It really makes no difference to me, the reasoning behind his powers; it doesnt change who Peter, who Spider-Man is. Look past your biased hate of changing the status qou, and you can see that the story telling, the depiction of Pete, Spider-Man, all the supporting cast, is the best its been in years. Some of my absolute favorite moments come from JMS' run...and most of them are just one or two panels.

...Of course....you'd be fully in the right for telling me to stop being biased too, when it comes to OMD...

 

[Themanofbat]

It was a JMS idea to come up with the Gwen kids' storyline... not JQ's... the only difference is that JMS wanted the kids to be Peter's and JQ nixed that idea.

JMS was GREAT at characterization, but most of his stories fell flat during the last part of all of his arcs... good story/great story, great build-up... then he fumbled the ball in the last parts... I have a hard time thinking of ANY arc he wrote that had that satisfying ending... now he wrote some good "in-between" stories, like the Peter/MJ reunion, the Aunt May conversation (again, with my initial comment that he was GREAT with characterization), & the Loki 2 parter (which I believe he plotted)...

I did a list one time of the 10 writers that have graced the pages of ASM (not including the current BND guys), and JMS ranks around 8th place, possibly 9th, with only Mackie coming in last place and Michelinie (depending on my mood)...

Maybe people think his run was so fantastic because it followed the Mackie crap...

 

[Styleshift]

It was a JMS idea to come up with the Gwen kids' storyline... not JQ's... the only difference is that JMS wanted the kids to be Peter's and JQ nixed that idea.

As much as I love Quesada. (I truly think he's great)
I have to disagree.

Quesada is at as much fault as JMS is.
(He's the editor remember?)
JMS conceived the idea. But Quesada let it go through and added to the very element that still pisses off many fans today. Having sweet innocent gwen sleep with norman.

 

[Styleshift]

I'd have to respectfully disagree. It seems pretty obvious that Quesada began tightening his grip and forcing JMS's hand, when everything like Sins Past started coming out. I would find it hard to believe that JMS came running to JOe Q saying "I have a wonderful idea! Lets take Peter's most fan-adored love interest and completely ruin her name!"

Nah, as TMOB said: he actually nixed the idea and offered the suggestion that Norman should be the kids father. (really bad idea)

I don't think JQ is "evil" or that he's even trying to "destroy Spider-man" as some fans think. I really think he wants it to be the flagship title of Marvel.

Daredevil shouldn't be better than Spidey. heck he steals half of his baddies!

I just think he doesn't really understand the character.
(I hope no one takes that as an insult.)
He is a REALLY big fan of controversy.

I think he's a bit too in love with the soap opera aspect that goes on in Spidey. That's retro and has been done to death. But I believe that's not what the character is about.

the real core of peter is him trying to juggle his responsibilities while being a super hero. The more responsibilities the more interesting he is....at least to me.

 

[kguillou]

I think Joe Q and others like him, who grew up in the 60's and 70's, just miss the old days when Peter was young, inexperienced and down on his luck. They feel like that aspect is what made Spiderman so successful and they wouldnt be wrong.

BUT, here's the thing: I grew up in the 90's and i started reading Spiderman during the clone saga. My only reference point at the time was the animated series that was running on Fox. As crazy and confusing as the clone saga was, i LOVED the comicbook version of Peter Parker more than the cartoon one. Why? Because it felt like i was looking into the future of the animated series. In TAS, Peter was relatively young and dealing with relationships and new villains etc. In the comics, Peter was an adult, married, about to have a child and dealing with the darkest period in his life. As confusing as it was for me, i loved it regardless.

I just think it depends on what period of spiderman you grew up with. I grew up with older Peter Parker so naturally I personally favor him. But lots and lots have grown up with young Peter, like Quesada, and therefore feel like that was the best period in Peter's life.

 

[Styleshift]

I think Joe Q and others like him, who grew up in the 60's and 70's, just miss the old days when Peter was young, inexperienced and down on his luck. They feel like that aspect is what made Spiderman so successful and they wouldnt be wrong.

BUT, here's the thing: I grew up in the 90's and i started reading Spiderman during the clone saga. My only reference point at the time was the animated series that was running on Fox. As crazy and confusing as the clone saga was, i LOVED the comicbook version of Peter Parker more than the cartoon one. Why? Because it felt like i was looking into the future of the animated series. In TAS, Peter was relatively young and dealing with relationships and new villains etc. In the comics, Peter was an adult, married, about to have a child and dealing with the darkest period in his life. As confusing as it was for me, i loved it regardless.

I just think it depends on what period of spiderman you grew up with. I grew up with older Peter Parker so naturally I personally favor him. But lots and lots have grown up with young Peter, like Quesada, and therefore feel like that was the best period in Peter's life.

Same here. I started reading a little before the clone saga ended.
What drew me to the character was that it was the story of a man's life.
He's not perfect. He doesn't win every battle. Thing's don't always work out but at least he tries to accomplish the right thing. For the most part it read in a straight line. So that made me get interested in reading the back issues as well as reading current stuff.

It's the reason why Spidey was always on my pull list from my pre-teens to adulthood.

lol, they've made a huge argument that "these are the stories they've been wanting to tell for so long but couldn't"

you know maybe that's why I'm so disappointed. I'm expecting alot better stuff than updated rehashes of stories they read when they were younger.


DD is a BEAST right now because his character has changed so much over the years.

They made all of these "out of character" decisions in certain stories, but they couldn't make Mj a cop? It would make sense given she was recently feeling like she had to prove herself against felicia. Mj has been shown to take out supervillians like the chameleon. It would have flipped the "im waiting for Peter to come home" thing right on it's head.

But what would affect you more? if Mj or "Carlie" got hurt on the job?

This character has years of history they needed to utilize. (I'm going to sound horrible) Instead they want to have her sleeping with other men and being jealous of Black cat.

yea...im officially quiting after 600. I won't even "complain" on the boards like some posters here say. Apparently that makes you unwelcome.

 

[Themanofbat]

You're quitting after ASM #600???

That's too bad... the next 4 months look really good...

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

yea...im officially quiting after 600. I won't even "complain" on the boards like some posters here say. Apparently that makes you unwelcome.

Surely, you're getting the "Who is Ben Reilly" arc that's coming out in October, right? You like Reilly, as your tag-line indicates. Why deny yourself that pleasure? Is it just to prove a point? Besides, you want to help him get his own title, right?

 

[Styleshift]

Surely, you're getting the "Who is Ben Reilly" arc that's coming out in October, right? You like Reilly, as your tag-line indicates. Why deny yourself that pleasure? Is it just to prove a point? Besides, you want to help him get his own title, right?

LOL I'm a little too afraid that I won't like the result of that story.
I'll continue to watch ASM, but I'm not buying anymore.

Even though there have been a few gems since BND started.
It's a bit too divisive for me to support and I'm not digging anything that is a result of Brand new day.

Yeah, I'm going to buy two each of the clone saga miniseries.
One for me and I'll let my nephew do whatever he wants with the other copy, but not before I scan it so I can keep a nice clean copy safely stored. lol.

But Spider-man is a little too hot for me right now.

So I'm cutting it from my pull list.
I really hate this.

 

[Ultimate Kaine]

Styleshift, it's been a real downer coming on here lately in such (for me) a good time for Spidey and also The Clone Saga and reading a whole lotta hate - opinions are opinions, but can be just a real buzzkiller, ya know? Anyway I just wanted to say THANK YOU for your pictorial recap! I got into Spidey because of The Clone Saga, and left immediately upon the reboot, because I just couldn't see anything recognizable about the comics from what I had previously been reading and enjoying. I came back on and off during JMS, depending on the arc. But all these years later though, I've gotten a real nostalgia for wanting to revisit the reboot era just to fill in the blanks. Collecting the individual comics would be a nightmare, having to get each via ebay and the associated global postage costs on each, but your recap really gave me a sweeping sense of closure. So again, good sir, thank you.

That and two things - stalker woulda worked better if they hadn't had the psychic BS but rather have him turn out to be The Chameleon, which would be consistent somewhat.

And, stalker went down like a punch. Or worse, Poochy. That is all.