Age of Extinction Transformers 4 is going to be TERRIBLE!

[TheVileOne]

Optimus is a sadistic sociopath in these movies and I don't care for it.

Optimus saying "We will kill them all" is not the type of thing he would say.

 

[Marvin]

Optimus is a sadistic sociopath in these movies and I don't care for it.

Optimus saying "We will kill them all" is not the type of thing he would say.

Preconceptions.

 

[DA_Champion]

Seeing Optimus kill a human was pretty cool.

 

[The Endless]

Preconceptions.

Why shouldn't people have preconceptions? If you're adapting something, then the characters should be somewhat true to the source material. I mean if there was an adaptation of a Superman story, but he was a mass murdering psychopath, would you defend that adaptation and criticize people for having "preconceptions"? You are such an apologist.

Optimus Prime is supposed to be like Captain America. He is naturally altruistic, but he's a soldier too. He's not afraid to kill when he has to. Yet the sequels paint him as too aggressive and blood thirsty.

And then there is this...

He literally tells one of the Dinobots that he is giving him freedom and follows that up with ‘You will defend my family or die!,’ which is a sentence that fairly well demonstrates not-freedom

And THIS is supposed to be the good guy? That is the Optimus Prime we grew up with? These are supposed to be kids films but they are full of nihilistic crap, sexist and cruel "humour" and neolithic politics.

 

[Drizzle]

On the bright side, at least they cut the scene from the TV spot with Wahlberg's daughter dancing with Bumblebee and Hound.

 

[Tony Stark]

On the bright side, at least they cut the scene from the TV spot with Wahlberg's daughter dancing with Bumblebee and Hound.

The movie was so freaking long and tedious, I didn't even notice that. Of course I didn't pay much attention to the trailers and TV spots. But good grief, if they actually cut scenes from this movie, was the original running length 6 hours?

 

[def28]

Just make sure you some of you guys pay for part 5 opening weekend again

I still don't get why if people hated the past 2 why they would show up for the next one. I don't think there is one series that can bring people back from so many past negative experiences. Marketing really does their job here.

 

[Mace Dolex]

On the bright side, at least they cut the scene from the TV spot with Wahlberg's daughter dancing with Bumblebee and Hound.

LOL really?! I just avoided all spoilers and trailers completely that I had no idea, maybe I'll look them up.

 

[TheVileOne]

Preconceptions.

Truth and fact.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Just make sure you some of you guys pay for part 5 opening weekend again

I still don't get why if people hated the past 2 why they would show up for the next one. I don't think there is one series that can bring people back from so many past negative experiences. Marketing really does their job here.

Hope that Bay finally learned his lesson. I mean after all it was supposed to be a soft reboot so the hope was we'd get something new.

 

[Marvin]

Truth and fact.

What is your meaning?

Why shouldn't people have preconceptions? If you're adapting something, then the characters should be somewhat true to the source material. I mean if there was an adaptation of a Superman story, but he was a mass murdering psychopath, would you defend that adaptation and criticize people for having "preconceptions"? You are such an apologist.

Optimus Prime is supposed to be like Captain America. He is naturally altruistic, but he's a soldier too. He's not afraid to kill when he has to. Yet the sequels paint him as too aggressive and blood thirsty.

Simple: review the film in front of you, in and of itself.

The more personal your review the less it speaks to the truth and the more it speaks to your personal experience. For example, what if you review a superman movie and the only superman book you've ever read(in your life) was the worst one, or one where he was pink skinned and fabulous. Your review will no doubt be a reflection of that in some what and very much un indicative of what the film in front of you deserves. Especially when it comes to how your review can help others. Unless they too have had the exact same experience as you have, what good is your review to them? Sorry the film didn't cater to you and your pink skinned prerequisite. Hopefully your review come with a disclaimer so everyone reading it knows exactly what they are dealing with.

Lastly and most importantly, is your preconception based on 'something good' or is it based on something less than what is presented in the film in quesiotn. If my experience with batman was only Adam West, and I parade around that this film is serviceable but falls short of 'my preconception' the minute you tells us what that preconception is based on....
Can anyone demonstrably argue why the other characterization of prime(I don't think it's all that diff tbh) is a better direction than this one? If not than....
Reviewing the film in front of you helps this always ring true for it's based on the film and only the film. Weigh it's merits for what they are into itself. Lest you find yourself questioning RDJ's Stark simply cause it's different as opposed to all that it is into itself.(a great film and take on the character)
That's what I think anyways.

As for my apologist defense. I wouldn't call prime a psychopath. Hyperbole is very easy for me to confront head on. More to the point, Optimus is very much a non nonsense warrior/soldier and he fights for what he believes to be right, if killing humans and not making any secret about it is what the situation calls for.....then he's precisely like Cap. I don't see either one walking around putting babies in blenders..etc.
note if you haven't seen cap get blood thirsty/vindictive in the midst of a passionate conflict you haven't read enough cap imo.

There were people that called superman a psychopath after mos as well. I can't help but think this all might have something to do with 'preconceptions' run amok. I truly wonder what the basic GA think. Rather what the truth is, into itself.

 

[Tony Stark]

Yeah when people have problems with a long beloved character it's always their fault when they don't like the interpretation.


You know this is the same voice actor that has done the character for over 30 years, and only in the Bayformer films has he been portrayed as a bloodthirsty killer.

You know I can respect that some people like these films. I can't relate to it, but I respect it. But when films like MoS and even more so this film (which let's face it got panned by the critics), you have proponents of the film telling the people who didn't like it why they are wrong, that's the height of arrogance.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Yeah when people have problems with a long beloved character it's always their fault when they don't like the interpretation.

You know this is the same voice actor that has done the character for over 30 years, and only in the Bayformer films has he been portrayed as a bloodthirsty killer.

You know I can respect that some people like these films. I can't relate to it, but I respect it. But when films like MoS and even more so this film (which let's face it got panned by the critics), you have proponents of the film telling the people who didn't like it why they are wrong, that's the height of arrogance.

It was jarring how different Prime was. I can understand him being slightly jaded based on the premise of the government turning on the Autobots, but if you're going to show a character devolve into that, it's gotta be earned and not just forced from the get-go.

 

[Marvin]

It was jarring how different Prime was. I can understand him being slightly jaded based on the premise of the government turning on the Autobots, but if you're going to show a character devolve into that, it's gotta be earned and not just forced from the get-go.

I can get behind this qualm. More earning of anything is always a good idea in my book.

 

[Marvin]

Yeah when people have problems with a long beloved character it's always their fault when they don't like the interpretation.


You know this is the same voice actor that has done the character for over 30 years, and only in the Bayformer films has he been portrayed as a bloodthirsty killer.

You know I can respect that some people like these films. I can't relate to it, but I respect it. But when films like MoS and even more so this film (which let's face it got panned by the critics), you have proponents of the film telling the people who didn't like it why they are wrong, that's the height of arrogance.

Always their fault? I said it was a preconception, plain and simple. Hardly indicative of the quality of this here film.

A preconception would be like suggesting batman not being the popular uber bat god, means the nolan films suck. Tell me why the bale batman is a weak interpretation into himself and I might get behind it, but declare that it's simply not what came before(as far as some source material)...pass.
Point me in the direction of where it is in the source material that Prime has found himself in this same situation he was as it pertains to earthlings and the characterization has shown him to act differently. That situation being after losing everything(cyberton wise), having the comrades that haven't fallen in combat then picked off one by one by the very people they died for then further humiliated in the lab..etc. Himself hunted like a dog and on his last leg....I frankly haven't seen it. I think it's a logical progression of the character to be honest.
As for blood thirst, he's been head hunting before. One of his most famous, if not his most famous line in the original film is about kill or be killed.

Arrogance is thinking an interpretation you cherish is the be all end all. Giving no opportunity for any other.

 

[The Overlord]

Why shouldn't people have preconceptions? If you're adapting something, then the characters should be somewhat true to the source material. I mean if there was an adaptation of a Superman story, but he was a mass murdering psychopath, would you defend that adaptation and criticize people for having "preconceptions"? You are such an apologist.

Optimus Prime is supposed to be like Captain America. He is naturally altruistic, but he's a soldier too. He's not afraid to kill when he has to. Yet the sequels paint him as too aggressive and blood thirsty.

And then there is this...



And THIS is supposed to be the good guy? That is the Optimus Prime we grew up with? These are supposed to be kids films but they are full of nihilistic crap, sexist and cruel "humour" and neolithic politics.

Yeah movie Prime is not very heroic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxuE0h9JsZ4

 

[The Endless]

Yes. Optimus the executioner. Optimus the guy who grants freedom to the dinobots... then tells them they must serve him.

I'm all for reviewing a film on it's own merits. That is how it should be. And it didn't take a wall of ****ing text to say that...

But Optimus doesn't work in this movies. We're supposed to root for this guy, but he executes unarmed, helpless adversaries. He supposedly grants freedom, but then makes it clear they are in his service? That's not freedom.

The point is we are supposed to root for this guy. But i can't. Because he's a prick. That's the problem with the film and the screenplay itself.

 

[DA_Champion]

Optimus is like the foreign policy of the USA.

 

[The Endless]

Yea and thats what annoys me about the apologists who defend these films as just "kids films with robots fighting each other".

There is so much jingoistic far right politics ****e thrown in here. It's like Bay has turned the Transformers into far right US propaganda. He literally had the Autobots on blackops wetworks missions for the US military in the previous films.

 

[DA_Champion]

Yea and thats what annoys me about the apologists who defend these films as just "kids films with robots fighting each other".

There is so much jingoistic far right politics ****e thrown in here. It's like Bay has turned the Transformers into far right US propaganda. He literally had the Autobots on blackops wetworks missions for the US military in the previous films.

These movies are definitely not white noise.

That black ops mission is the worst scene in the movies for me.

 

[samsnee]

So how accurate is this takedown? Especially the statutory rape thing?

http://io9.com/transformers-age-of-extinction-the-spoiler-faq-1598579492

 

[DA_Champion]

There is a 20 year old dating a 17 year old in the movie, quite frankly I don't give a ****, that shouldn't be called rape.

 

[Lord]

3 years is realy not a big gap at all, i doubt that "interview" is real, sounds like a parody.

 

[Marvin]

Yes. Optimus the executioner. Optimus the guy who grants freedom to the dinobots... then tells them they must serve him.

I'm all for reviewing a film on it's own merits. That is how it should be. And it didn't take a wall of ****ing text to say that...

But Optimus doesn't work in this movies. We're supposed to root for this guy, but he executes unarmed, helpless adversaries. He supposedly grants freedom, but then makes it clear they are in his service? That's not freedom.

The point is we are supposed to root for this guy. But i can't. Because he's a prick. That's the problem with the film and the screenplay itself.

I know it didn't take a 'wall of text'(not sure you've actually seen one of those if that's your reading). That's why I started off with that lead in, specifically for you. I remembered you don't like seeing attempts at full arguments presented and referenced then supported with an example..etc. I'd rather be safe then sorry that I gave you a chance to not get me wrong. But again, the lead in was for you. You don't like reading, then don't.

Optimus grants freedom to prisoners. Then tells them to earn their freedom. Last time I checked, they attacked him first...I suppose he could have just let them go off and do their completely unpredictable crap on the planet. I mean Prime doesn't really care about humans anymore after all.

Ok here's the thing, again, this isn't 'YOUR OPTIMUS' as dictated by what ever preconception baggage you are dragging around here or into the film. It's a character into itself that is a product of his own story. A parallel dimension/elseworlds in which everything is the same, save for key(and recent) differences producing a different but legitimate characterization. For example, in this characterization, as far as we know he's never met Ultra Magnus/Alpha Trion..etc. This is my point about grading how much sense it makes without holding up some bible of lore over your head. In this, he's been battle hardened, in a way he wasn't in the first movie. And yes, the point is we are suppose to root for this guy, but the problem is that you can't. That's it. You explained your personal reasons and that's great. I personally have just as easy a time rooting for this so called blood thirsty prick as I do say, wolverine. That's probably cause I'm not tied down but all this "he's supposed to be" crap, and just taking in the story as I would and do anything thing. Into itself.

 

[Marvin]

Yea and thats what annoys me about the apologists who defend these films as just "kids films with robots fighting each other".

There is so much jingoistic far right politics ****e thrown in here. It's like Bay has turned the Transformers into far right US propaganda. He literally had the Autobots on blackops wetworks missions for the US military in the previous films.

Literally eh? Not sure which scene or what you are talking about but covert assassination really? I personally don't recall anything like that tbh(could be wrong). Please specify.
As for jingo. I wasn't aware it was bays job to protect our precious children from such things. I mean wasn't GI Joe a US military thing 80's toy commercial. Does cap not fight germans and do (actual wet work)..All of that 'bad' and not appropriate for kids? There is a scene in the TF film in which the Autobots escort what is said to be a middle eastern defense minister. Pretty sure if the such a person was killed it would mean bad things for 'everyone'. I guess that would be interpreted as jingo(depending on if it was an ally).

My personal problem with the transformers malcontents. Playing the children card and hyperbolic accusation.