Revenge of the Fallen Transformers: ROTF User Review Thread

[protocida]

I finally saw it! t:

And it was AWESOME!! Top notch movie. It had it's flaws (The robots got a little shafted in the final battle), but it was AWESOME nevertheless.

10/10.

 

[BlackLantern]

Everyone I know, friends and coworkers, that have seen it has had nothing but praise, even my mom liked it

 

[J.Howlett]

The government covered up the Mission City destruction because global communications were down during the battle. Jon Voight's character mentions that at least twice in act two of the first film.

That's where the cover up is. It's not explained but that's how they got away with the cover up.

As for using the sliver from Sam's shirt to revive Optimus, well, watching it a third time this afternoon, Sam actually loses the thing. When Jetfire is ignited, the sliver magnetized to Jetfire and it was basically gone. Sam never tried to retrieve it nor was it even seen again....

 

[Sarge 2.0]

That, yes, but more that nothing in the film is actually affected by these plot points. If the romance was absent, what would be different? Nothing. If Sam wasn't struggling to find his place, what would be different? Maybe something, but I can't tell you what. It's not like he had the option to say "I'm not playing this game any more."

Now, you might say that Sam didn't affect the story, but the story affected Sam. Meh. Sam said he didn't want to help, but then later decided he did want to help. There's just not much there to make that meaningful or interesting. You only believe he had this change of heart because the film tells you. It doesn't show you.

Your points aren't going to get across because you're actually basing them on the evidence provided in the film instead of using fanboy rationalization and speculation. I applaud you for using erudition, but I fear that true critical thought is useless here. The Guard has constructed his argument using speculation and inferences in to things that are just not in the film. You can't budge stubborn fanboyism, even with rationality and knowledge.

 

[BlackLantern]

is this because only knowledgeable fanboys opinions count??

 

[J.Howlett]

Actually, Sam helps out of guilt more than anything for what happened to Optimus. He believes its his fault that he died...which it really wasn't. But, that doesn't change Sam's notion of what he must do. He feels its his responsibility to set things right...considering he's now Intersect.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

is this because only knowledgeable fanboys opinions count??

Dude, I'm not talking about one type of fanboy being better than another. I'm discouraging fanboyism in favor of straight critical analysis.

 

[J.Howlett]

The romance, as an arc, doesn't work but the moments do work because of Shia and Megan. The romance is there for marketing and from a story point, to prove Mikaela's worth.

As she says, look at what she goes through. And honestly, I like it because their bond is shaped by these experiences in the two films with these alien wars. That's something only they share so I can buy the relationship and the growth between films.

Yes, you definitely have to make some assumptions to fill in the two years but because Shia and Megan play it really, really well, it works, despite the fact you don't need it and the writers didn't do the actors any favors by not giving them much to work with.

For some people, like me, it works only because of Shia and Megan's chemistry.

 

[Mr. Earle]

That, yes, but more that nothing in the film is actually affected by these plot points. If the romance was absent, what would be different? Nothing. If Sam wasn't struggling to find his place, what would be different? Maybe something, but I can't tell you what. It's not like he had the option to say "I'm not playing this game any more."

Now, you might say that Sam didn't affect the story, but the story affected Sam. Meh. Sam said he didn't want to help, but then later decided he did want to help. There's just not much there to make that meaningful or interesting. You only believe he had this change of heart because the film tells you. It doesn't show you.

I agree with a lot of points you make in other posts, especially about the incomplete and empty subplots like the one with the Fallen going on TV. Bay forgot about that part in the next 2 minutes.

But in Sam's case, it didnt have to be so related. We are witnessing his life, whether it actively affects the larger events or not. The fact that he is going to college didnt have to be related necessarily to anything else. But it did.
He is moving on with his life. He understands that he doesnt belong in the war and wants a normal life. He is later forced into the whole thing by the decepticons and then Prime dies protecting him. I think that's a good reason for him to deliberate on his choices. He does so when he apologizes to Bee. A scene placed there for the sole purpose of showing Sam's remorse.
And if that wasnt enough, Sam cant get out of it even if he wanted to. Because he holds the key to the Matrix and the Fallen wont stop until he find it and therefore him. He cant escape the Fallen, he cant let the world end. His only choice is to revive Prime because he is the only one who can stop the Fallen. But he doesnt just do it because he has no alternative, but also because he feels responsible for Prime's death and because when **** hits the fan, he acts (unlike his roomate). Sam was like a soldier who didnt want to be sent to Iraq after fighting in Afganistan. But when the war reached his doorstep, he manned up, stopped being selfish and did what had to be done.

There are many subplots that are initiated and then dropped without resolution, but in my opinion, the subplot about Sam's stance to the war was done well.
The romance didnt need to have any importance in the greater things. It was just something for Mikaela and Sam to talk and argue about during the movie. It was one of Sam's everyday problems, just like his silly parents. They fleshed out his everyday life.

 

[BlackLantern]

Dude, I'm not talking about one type of fanboy being better than another. I'm discouraging fanboyism in favor of straight critical analysis.

I know, I was agreeing and going for sarcasm, but it didn't work out

 

[Mr. Earle]

The romance, as an arc, doesn't work but the moments do work because of Shia and Megan. The romance is there for marketing and from a story point, to prove Mikaela's worth.

As she says, look at what she goes through. And honestly, I like it because their bond is shaped by these experiences in the two films with these alien wars. That's something only they share so I can buy the relationship and the growth between films.

Yes, you definitely have to make some assumptions to fill in the two years but because Shia and Megan play it really, really well, it works, despite the fact you don't need it and the writers didn't do the actors any favors by not giving them much to work with.

For some people, like me, it works only because of Shia and Megan's chemistry.

I agree on everything but the part in bold. They do have some chemistry, but she is so SUPER HOT and he is such a dork, that i cant buy it so easily. Its easier for me to buy huge alien robots transforming into cars t:

 

[BlackLantern]

I agree on everything but the part in bold. They do have some chemistry, but she is so SUPER HOT and he is such a dork, that i cant buy it so easily. Its easier for me to buy huge alien robots transforming into cars t:

then your cynicism is to blame have you seen Christina Aguileras husband?? he looks like a hobbit

 

[Mr. Earle]

then your cynicism is to blame have you seen Christina Aguileras husband?? he looks like a hobbit

Then my chances of scoring with a supermodel are good! Excellent... To the batmobile!




Yeah i was exaggerating. I think we all got used to their relationship. But goddamn life has taught me different. A hot girl like Mikaela would be so arrogant and possessive, not begging to hear the L word. She is such a good girl i guess. And besides, not many teenagers have "slayer of Megatron, lord of the decepticons" in their resume.

 

[J.Howlett]

Earle,

Again, it has more to do with their experience together more than anything. Considering what we know of her and what she use to think of herself, her being with Sam makes sense.

Through two movies, you see why they're together. It's this war. In between the two battles, Sam's figured out a way to keep her eventhough he acknowledges in the film early that she could easily leave him for someone else considering how smokin' hot she is.

Sam's real about his relationship with Mikaela, hence the whole subplot with them in this film.

If she says it first, he's got her...which she acknowledges in the end with her reaction when he says "You said it first."

 

[J.Howlett]

By the way, you do know how the third film is going to end, right guys?

 

[BlackLantern]

what third film??? where are you people getting this from??

 

[J.Howlett]

200 million in five days...over 400 million in six days...yeah, there's going to be a third.

As for the ending of said future film, Bay has referenced all of his films in these two films.

How did he end Armageddon?

 

[bell110]

Seeing as The Fallen called Megatron his disciple, could it not have been The Fallen that turned Megatron bad and against his comrades? The Fallen is referred to as the first Decepticon, so this is entirely plausible.

Megatron mentions in ROTF he had failed the Fallen by not obtaining the Allspark, which would have powered the machine, The Allspark was not energon, otherwise it would have revived Jetfire completely and utterley, it didnt, it just woke him up.

But you're just assuming all of this. It wasn't mentioned in the movie. The matrix was the key to the machine, I don't remember anyone saying the Allspark would also power it. So when was the Allspark lost? Someone said all the history of Cybertron was in the Allspark, and that's why no one knew about the Primes being on Earth. Apparently Megatron knows about the Fallen, so he must know about the Primes. Why doesn't Optimus know? Did the Allspark reach Earth before or after the Primes set up the sun-destroying machine?

Sam's Dad mentioned in the movie that the government were paying for re-construction on their house, is it out of the realm of possibility that they payed a lot of other people off as well. They wouldnt have caught everyone, but the people running for their lives at that moment in the first movie probably didnt know WTF was going on.

I'm sorry, that's a little too much for the government to cover up. Covering that up would make the 9/11 cover up look like the Kennedy cover up. Plus I remember Voights character making a press conference saying we are dealing with an alien threat with greater technology than us. I need to double check on that.

Starscream says in the movie their Energon is running out, and the Transformers also harvested Suns from lifeless planets in the past, could it maybe have been this what they were living off?

The problem is shear amount of energy that is generated by a star. I can't buy that Transformers use so much of it and they exhaust the engery so fast that they have to keep planet hoping to sustain themselves.

Jazz or Optimus didnt have a spare spark, the Decep's destroyed one of their own and gave his spark to Megatron, then at the end Prime got Jetfire's.

I remember the Decepticons saying they needed parts from that guy, not a spark. And the spark is basically the robot's soul, so it wouldn't really be Megatron or Optimus anyways. Besides, wasn't Optimus already revived before Jetfire sacrificed himself? His spark was only a power-up.

All of this, and other criticisms I hear are all in the frickin movie, its just about paying attention rather than looking for flaws.

They aren't in the movie. Even in the first example you had to assume what might have happen. These are flaws that are in your face. When I go see a movie, I want the story to be told to me. I don't want to go home and piece the plot together on a message board.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

I know, I was agreeing and going for sarcasm, but it didn't work out

Ah, apologies then.

 

[BlackLantern]

200 million in five days...over 400 million in six days...yeah, there's going to be a third.

As for the ending of said future film, Bay has referenced all of his films in these two films.

How did he end Armageddon?

blew up a big rock and killed Bruce Willis

 

[Sarge 2.0]

blew up a big rock and killed Bruce Willis

And then blared Aerosmith.

 

[bell110]

By the way, you do know how the third film is going to end, right guys?

With the birth of Daniel?

 

[J.Howlett]

Wedding.

The Wedding, with the Autobots present and Bumblebee as the best man, considering the whole thing start out as a story about a boy and his car. After the wedding, the Autobots depart from Earth for good.

WRITE IT DOWN! Going to happen in 2012.

 

[BlackLantern]

They aren't in the movie. Even in the first example you had to assume what might have happen. These are flaws that are in your face. When I go see a movie, I want the story to be told to me. I don't want to go home and piece the plot together on a message board.

I managed to work it out just fine, but what do I know??...Im just a common movie watcher...a plebian if you would

 

[J.Howlett]

bell,

You shouldn't want everything told to you...some, but not all.