Ultimate Power

[The Question]

They all had to learn magic, or use runes and such. None were truly capable of huge magical things before hand.

I suppose.

And could never miss, launch lightning, shrink down, and destroy any object it hit. (Except for this stupid giant, which disproved that.)

I don't recall it launching lightning.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I suppose.



I don't recall it launching lightning.

They believed lightning strikes were caused by Thor either striking something, or by the hammer being thrown.

 

[yahman]

I cant be bothered to argue with you anymore, you are ignoring facts to support youre biased opinion, i might as well be trying to persuade a blind person that the World is round.

It’s not a matter of opinion, and it's not the same thing. The Richter Scale measures the severity of earthquakes. Natural earthquakes are caused when two tectonic plates move against one another. One can generate a shockwave that can be measured on the Richter Scale without moving tectonic place. It's how they measure the force of nuclear explosions. Actually, they can. A tiny shockwave that barely shakes a room is measured on the Richter Scale. It's not very high on it, but it's on it.

True, hence my use of the word 'ACCURATELY'. An insect momentarily stops a car when it collides with it. It still means its ******ED to use a car to measure an Insects its strength (This applies to you’re claims that the Richter scale could be used to measure both Ultimate Thor and Colossus strength). A scientist clearly explains that NO object/system on earth exist that could ACCURATELY measure Hyperion strength, except the Richter scale.

Neither one has been shown to be considerably weaker. It's simply that neither one has preformed feats on the level of Hyperion as of yet.

Colossus clearly STRUGGLED to lift a Submarine weighing mere KILO tons. With the exception of you’re BIZARRE, un justified theory about 'being taken by surprise' its widely regarded that Colossus is stronger than Thor, therefore its not ridiculous to claim that Thor would also struggle to lift an Object weighing mere kilo tons. Hyperion caused the Energy release equivalent to a TERRATON explosion. You do the maths !

And Hyperion made the 10 point something shockwave by flying up into the upper atmosphere and slamming into the ground at full force. It's not something he does regularly.

Its been noted on FOUR separate ocassions that Hyperion has this level of strength, go back and read the Supreme Power/Hyperion series and you will see this for yourself.

 

[The Question]

True, hence my use of the word 'ACCURATELY'. An insect momentarily stops a car when it collides with it. It still means its ******ED to use a car to measure an Insects its strength (This applies to you’re claims that the Richter scale could be used to measure both Ultimate Thor and Colossus strength). A scientist clearly explains that NO object/system on earth exist that could ACCURATELY measure Hyperion strength, except the Richter scale.

True.

Colossus clearly STRUGGLED to lift a Submarine weighing mere KILO tons. With the exception of you’re BIZARRE, un justified theory about 'being taken by surprise' its widely regarded that Colossus is stronger than Thor, therefore its not ridiculous to claim that Thor would also struggle to lift an Object weighing mere kilo tons. Hyperion caused the Energy release equivalent to a TERRATON explosion. You do the maths !

Except that Thor has been mentioned several times to be the most powerful superhuman on Earth and stronger than any mutant.

 

[Horrorfan]

True.



Except that Thor has been mentioned several times to be the most powerful superhuman on Earth and stronger than any mutant.

I dunno if that's true....hulk gave him trouble, and thor had the ultimates behind him. And then Colossus ''beat the crap'' out of Thor. Even though you could argue he was taken by surprise by his strength, he still should have been able to fight back if he was equal or above colossus' raw power

 

[The Question]

I dunno if that's true....hulk gave him trouble, and thor had the ultimates behind him. And then Colossus ''beat the crap'' out of Thor. Even though you could argue he was taken by surprise by his strength, he still should have been able to fight back if he was equal or above colossus' raw power

True. I guess my main arguement is this: Millar ****ed up. He wanted to display Collosus being really powerful, and in doing so forgot that Thor was supposed to be the most powerful superhuman on Earth.

 

[gildea]

True. I guess my main arguement is this: Millar ****ed up. He wanted to display Collosus being really powerful, and in doing so forgot that Thor was supposed to be the most powerful superhuman on Earth.

There is a distinction to be made between 'power' and 'strength'.

Also thor hasn't been stated to be stronger than any mutant but his belt has been stated to give rise to a strength level unseen in the mutant community. However this was before colossus came into the public eye and anyway may have been part of loki's illusions.

Also the fight between thor and colossus was 10 minutes long. That is a VERY long time in a fight. If thor couldn't get the upper hand in a brawl then it's likely colossus is stronger (thats not to say more powerful, thor couldn't use his lightening for instance because of his team mates in the proximity).

Also given that millar created both these characters its unlikely he ****ed up regarding the fight.

 

[The Question]

There is a distinction to be made between 'power' and 'strength'.

Also thor hasn't been stated to be stronger than any mutant but his belt has been stated to give rise to a strength level unseen in the mutant community. However this was before colossus came into the public eye and anyway may have been part of loki's illusions.

Actually, Ultimate X-Men came before The Ultimates. The Ultimates were formed in response to Magneto's atack on Washington. It is presumable that, were Loki's story true, so would have the Norwegian counterpart. In any event, Thor's basically been made out to be the most powerful (including strength) superhuman around, right next to The Hulk. So, I'm guessing that it was just a screw up on Millar's part.

Also the fight between thor and colossus was 10 minutes long. That is a VERY long time in a fight. If thor couldn't get the upper hand in a brawl then it's likely colossus is stronger (thats not to say more powerful, thor couldn't use his lightening for instance because of his team mates in the proximity).

Was it really ten minutes long? I recall it going largely unseen.

Also given that millar created both these characters its unlikely he ****ed up regarding the fight.

Not realy. He wanted to show off Collosus as super badass, but hadn't planned on wanting to show off Thor as much more powerful than anyone else besides The Hulk later on.

Also, think about it: Loki was all smug and confidant about whupping basically every superhuman in Washinton when he revealed himself. He was practically ****ting himself when Thor showed up. Thus, I'd think Thor is a good deal more powerful than the rest.

 

[yahman]

Actually, Ultimate X-Men came before The Ultimates. The Ultimates were formed in response to Magneto's atack on Washington. It is presumable that, were Loki's story true, so would have the Norwegian counterpart. In any event, Thor's basically been made out to be the most powerful (including strength) superhuman around, right next to The Hulk. So, I'm guessing that it was just a screw up on Millar's part.



Was it really ten minutes long? I recall it going largely unseen.



Not realy. He wanted to show off Collosus as super badass, but hadn't planned on wanting to show off Thor as much more powerful than anyone else besides The Hulk later on.

Also, think about it: Loki was all smug and confidant about whupping basically every superhuman in Washinton when he revealed himself. He was practically ****ting himself when Thor showed up. Thus, I'd think Thor is a good deal more powerful than the rest.

There are quite a few beings that have now been stated to be 'the most powerful' . In the most recent Ultimate FF4 arc, i think that Doom was suggested to be more powerfu than Thor, as was Namor during his run. Thors beatings at the hands of Magneto, Colossus and the Hulk further disputes youre claim.

 

[bkhedr]

Thor really hasn't shown a lot of strength in the 616 universe either. He supposedly is in the 100 ton range but he rarely does things to show it. He depends a lot on Mjolnir to do everything. It'd be interesting to see Thor go really all out against an opponent.

Never question 616 Thor's strength.

Ever!

 

[The Question]

There are quite a few beings that have now been stated to be 'the most powerful' . In the most recent Ultimate FF4 arc, i think that Doom was suggested to be more powerfu than Thor, as was Namor during his run. Thors beatings at the hands of Magneto, Colossus and the Hulk further disputes youre claim.

When has Magneto ever beated Thor?

 

[bkhedr]

thanks. thats a tad disappointing. lets hope we get a thor/hyperion wolvie/nighthawk or cap/nighthawk brawl somewhere.

Ult Cap would utterly destroy Nighthawk

 

[bkhedr]

There are quite a few beings that have now been stated to be 'the most powerful' . In the most recent Ultimate FF4 arc, i think that Doom was suggested to be more powerfu than Thor, as was Namor during his run. Thors beatings at the hands of Magneto, Colossus and the Hulk further disputes youre claim.

Now I am admittedly biased but after reading all the posts I am inclined to agree with Question (especially his opinion on the Collosus Thor fight)

 

[yahman]

When has Magneto ever beated Thor?

In Ultimate War

 

[yahman]

Now I am admittedly biased but after reading all the posts I am inclined to agree with Question (especially his opinion on the Collosus Thor fight)

Yes ... You are Biased

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I cant be bothered to argue with you anymore, you are ignoring facts to support youre biased opinion, i might as well be trying to persuade a blind person that the World is round.




True, hence my use of the word 'ACCURATELY'. An insect momentarily stops a car when it collides with it. It still means its ******ED to use a car to measure an Insects its strength (This applies to you’re claims that the Richter scale could be used to measure both Ultimate Thor and Colossus strength). A scientist clearly explains that NO object/system on earth exist that could ACCURATELY measure Hyperion strength, except the Richter scale.





Colossus clearly STRUGGLED to lift a Submarine weighing mere KILO tons. With the exception of you’re BIZARRE, un justified theory about 'being taken by surprise' its widely regarded that Colossus is stronger than Thor, therefore its not ridiculous to claim that Thor would also struggle to lift an Object weighing mere kilo tons. Hyperion caused the Energy release equivalent to a TERRATON explosion. You do the maths !



Its been noted on FOUR separate ocassions that Hyperion has this level of strength, go back and read the Supreme Power/Hyperion series and you will see this for yourself.

Actually, given the energy and mass behind a car, and the same with an insect, the only object in stop is the insect, when it's inertia is just halted by the overwhelming energy forced onto it. A car wouldn't even slow down.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

True.



Except that Thor has been mentioned several times to be the most powerful superhuman on Earth and stronger than any mutant.

Omit the Hulk, most obviously.

 

[gildea]

Actually, Ultimate X-Men came before The Ultimates. The Ultimates were formed in response to Magneto's atack on Washington. It is presumable that, were Loki's story true, so would have the Norwegian counterpart. In any event, Thor's basically been made out to be the most powerful (including strength) superhuman around, right next to The Hulk. So, I'm guessing that it was just a screw up on Millar's part.

No its not. In issue 4 of the ultimates 2 loki says the harness was constructed 24months ago. Now the ultimates 2 is set a year after ultimates 1 which itself is a couple of months after magnetos very first attack on on washington so the timeline buts colossus's appearance being after the belt was made. (thor himself 'stole' the equipment 18months prior to ultimates 2 issue 4 which still puts him ahead of colossus)
So the equipment was DEFINETLY made prior to colossus gaining fame.

In fact the language is VERY guarded it specifically says "unseen" and because colossus hadn't been seen at that point it's safe to say he's not included.

Was it really ten minutes long? I recall it going largely unseen.

Hawkeye literally says "he's been beating the crap out of thor for ten minutes"

So even if thor was suprised the length of the confrontation shouldn't have let that happen.

Not realy. He wanted to show off Collosus as super badass, but hadn't planned on wanting to show off Thor as much more powerful than anyone else besides The Hulk later on.

Thats a massive amount of guess work on your part.
Bottom line the creator of both characters put them in a physical fight where thor could only use his strength and thor lost.
If he could have used his other powers I'm pretty sure thor would have won

Also, think about it: Loki was all smug and confidant about whupping basically every superhuman in Washinton when he revealed himself. He was practically ****ting himself when Thor showed up. Thus, I'd think Thor is a good deal more powerful than the rest.

Not disputing that at all, only that colossus is stronger.

power DOES NOT equal strength (i'm not sure how many times i can say this).

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

There are quite a few beings that have now been stated to be 'the most powerful' . In the most recent Ultimate FF4 arc, i think that Doom was suggested to be more powerfu than Thor, as was Namor during his run. Thors beatings at the hands of Magneto, Colossus and the Hulk further disputes youre claim.

The parasite was suppossed to go into the most powerful being it found, and it found Doom. However, it chose Torch before that, where the Thing would've been a much better candidate, as well as the Invisible Woman, so it might just be energywise event that the alien was attracted to Doom, who, by then, was just a dynamo of magical energy. (Keep in mind Richards was capable of using a lot of Doom's powerful magic, and wouldn't be unreasonable for him to generate tons of energy to attract the alien.)

Namor beat the heck out of the Fantastic Four....kind of. He was more or less in a stalemate. While he was more powerful than any member individually, he definitely wasn't so overwhelmingly powerful, that he couldn't be beaten. (Someone mention the gizmo, so I can explain that. The one to restrain Namor.)

Colossus would definitely be FASTER than a swinging hammer, and so would easily have the upper hand in the fight. Is he a ton bunch closer to Thor than he would be in the 616? Definitely. But I would still think that Thor is more powerful physically. Especially given the extreme beating he took from several superteams all at once.

And Magneto. Yes, if I found a way to magnetize a magic superhammer, and beat YOU to death with it, would that be me overcoming your awesome strength with my own? Or simply having a trait that very nicely counteracts yours? The Magneto fight doesn't exactly hold much bearing, especially since most of it was inside of a building, where if Thor decided to bring down the lightning, he would've killed all his friends.

 

[yahman]

Actually, given the energy and mass behind a car, and the same with an insect, the only object in stop is the insect, when it's inertia is just halted by the overwhelming energy forced onto it. A car wouldn't even slow down.

We already know you are physics Geek with a name like 'Mistress Gluon', there very little need to prove it ....

 

[gildea]

But I would still think that Thor is more powerful physically. Especially given the extreme beating he took from several superteams all at once.

Durability does not equal strength.

If we're going to argue that though thor was hurt and injured by a flame thrower whereas colossus was uninjured by molten lava AND a 'localised nuke'.

Again not disputing that thor is more powerful only that colossus has been shown to be stronger (and more durable).

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

No its not. In issue 4 of the ultimates 2 loki says the harness was constructed 24months ago. Now the ultimates 2 is set a year after ultimates 1 which itself is a couple of months after magnetos very first attack on on washington so the timeline buts colossus's appearance being after the belt was made. (thor himself 'stole' the equipment 18months prior to ultimates 2 issue 4 which still puts him ahead of colossus)
So the equipment was DEFINETLY made prior to colossus gaining fame.

In fact the language is VERY guarded it specifically says "unseen" and because colossus hadn't been seen at that point it's safe to say he's not included.

You know, I've seen this argument a few times now, and I really only had one thought. The harness was built prior to the knowledge of Colossus. (At least in mortal terms.) However, the statement was made well AFTER Colossus made his debut. So Loki, who would most definitely be looking for foreign ties of powerful stature, would know about it. Especially everybody there in the Ultimates would know about Colossus. So it's not like, by then, that Colossus was still a relative unknown. By then, Colossus would most definitely be a contender.

Hawkeye literally says "he's been beating the crap out of thor for ten minutes"

And Hawkeye was timing this fight? Or being the standard sarcastic Hawkeye?

Thats a massive amount of guess work on your part.
Bottom line the creator of both characters put them in a physical fight where thor could only use his strength and thor lost.
If he could have used his other powers I'm pretty sure thor would have won

Guess work? Sure. But to say that Colossus was stronger than Thor is also tons of guesswork, seeing how there is little comparison.

Not disputing that at all, only that colossus is stronger.

More or less subjective. Iron Man lifted a weapon that was comparative to the submarine that Colossus lifted, and Thor is stronger than Iron Man. There is no real way to tell which way or the other who is stronger or what, at the moment.

power DOES NOT equal strength (i'm not sure how many times i can say this).

Fully agreed.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

We already know you are physics Geek with a name like 'Mistress Gluon', there very little need to prove it ....

lol I'm a nerd. We have redeemable qualities.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Durability does not equal strength.

If we're going to argue that though thor was hurt and injured by a flame thrower whereas colossus was uninjured by molten lava AND a 'localised nuke'.

Again not disputing that thor is more powerful only that colossus has been shown to be stronger (and more durable).

That would be pathetic really. Roaches survive nuclear energy, yet can be crushed by humans. Durability from energy reactions such as heat means nothing really. Direct physical mass on mass beating is what I meant.

And that "localized nuke" was beyond low grade weaponry (for totally obvious reasons). And also, we have no comparison for it. I could say that Thor taking a beating from those Skrull ships would be worth more in damage, but since I don't have a comparison for them, I'm leaving them out of it too.

 

[gildea]

You know, I've seen this argument a few times now, and I really only had one thought. The harness was built prior to the knowledge of Colossus. (At least in mortal terms.) However, the statement was made well AFTER Colossus made his debut. So Loki, who would most definitely be looking for foreign ties of powerful stature, would know about it. Especially everybody there in the Ultimates would know about Colossus. So it's not like, by then, that Colossus was still a relative unknown. By then, Colossus would most definitely be a contender.

Yes but the belt was made before colossus was known (which in ultimate is what gives thor his strength). It doesn't matter when the statement was made but when the belt was because the statement was talking about when it was made NOT about its current status.
It literally says the belt was designed to grant strength unseen in the mutant community and at that point colossus hadn't been seen. It really is THAT simple.

Colossus would only be a contender after the fact so by then it doesn't matter if he's known. (and thor was already had 'stolen' the equipment before colossus has made his debut).

And Hawkeye was timing this fight? Or being the standard sarcastic Hawkeye?

He's a super soldier and highly trained I'm fairly sure he can make a reasonable assumption of time.
And he's not particularly sarcastic in ultimate.

Guess work? Sure. But to say that Colossus was stronger than Thor is also tons of guesswork, seeing how there is little comparison.

No there is actual evidence to back it up.
1. The thor vs colossus fight
2. All the feats of raw strength colossus has performed
3. That thor has performed NO feats of raw strength
4. The wizard strength charts


What evidence is there for thor being stronger?
one quote for which the timeline means doesn't actually apply to colossus.