Ultimate Power

[The Question]

I'm not questoning his power, per se only his strength level of which we have no evidence.

I mean theoretically he could just teleport hyperion to wherever he sent that bomb in the alien arc of ultimates.

Still, if he's capable of the feats mentioned, his strength much be vast.

 

[gildea]

Still, if he's capable of the feats mentioned, his strength much be vast.

Not by requirement, could just be the magic of mjolnir.

Recall he couldn't actually lift mjolnir after his belt was removed (similar to norse mythology)

Plus if he was that strong he could easily have escaped from his prison in the triskellion instead of pleasing with odin in the current arc.

 

[The Question]

Not by requirement, could just be the magic of mjolnir.

I doubt that. His destroying of the alien ships and beating the crap out of all of those super soldiers seemed ti be, in part, based on brute strength.

Recall he couldn't actually lift mjolnir after his belt was removed (similar to norse mythology)

Thor, in the myths, could lift his hammer without the belt. And really, it seemed to me that Loki manipulated reality so Thor's powers failed at that time.

Plus if he was that strong he could easily have escaped from his prison in the triskellion instead of pleasing with odin in the current arc.

The cell was designed to hold The Hulk.

 

[gildea]

I doubt that. His destroying of the alien ships and beating the crap out of all of those super soldiers seemed ti be, in part, based on brute strength.

Possibly but nothing provable and nothing that gives any idea of scale.

Thor, in the myths, could lift his hammer without the belt. And really, it seemed to me that Loki manipulated reality so Thor's powers failed at that time.

Not true. See link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megingjord

its also unlikely loki has the power to do that otherwise the fight in the ultimates next issue will be pretty short.

The cell was designed to hold The Hulk.

Kinda, it was designed to hold banner and was never tested against the hulk.

 

[Joker]

actually it was tested against the hulk, that's why they had banner in there, so when he hulked out (which he did pretty much monthly if you read between the lines in the Ultimates) he couldnt escape.

 

[gildea]

actually it was tested against the hulk, that's why they had banner in there, so when he hulked out (which he did pretty much monthly if you read between the lines in the Ultimates) he couldnt escape.

source?

As far as I recall the only thing that stopped him when he hulked out was gas.
(From ultimate war #3 when the power went off he hulked out broke loose until the back up generators came on line and he was gassed)

So I don't think it came close to the hulk test from the sounds of things.

 

[The Question]

Possibly but nothing provable and nothing that gives any idea of scale.

True.

Not true. See link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megingjord

its also unlikely loki has the power to do that otherwise the fight in the ultimates next issue will be pretty short.

Yes, Thor had a belt of strength, but he was already the strongest of all the Aesir without it. He obtained the belt long after he earned the title of the strongest of the nine worlds. Also, it seems likely to me that losing Thor's belt didn't cause him to lose his powers, mainly because of two instances in Ultimates volume one:

1) In his first apearance, he used his wethere manipulation abilities without even touching Mjolnir, meaning that Mjolnir is simply a very powerful weapon, and it doesn't give him his weather control powers.

2) In issue six, Thor was at Tony's mansion and wearing a shirt an jeans, without Mjolnir or Megingjord in sight. If his powers relies solely on his gear, I'd think he'd keep it with him constantly and not simply leave it lying around where ever he's staying.

It seems likely to me that Loki stripped him of his powers, or more likely, based on Thor's diologue when his powers failed him, Odin stripped Thor of his powers because he felt Thor had failed him.

Kinda, it was designed to hold banner and was never tested against the hulk.

True. But if it was designed to hold Banner, then it was probably designed to hold The Hulk. Since, you know, Bruce Banner is The Hulk.

 

[gildea]

1) In his first apearance, he used his wethere manipulation abilities without even touching Mjolnir, meaning that Mjolnir is simply a very powerful weapon, and it doesn't give him his weather control powers.

Well his dialogue suggested it was mjolnir he was using to do it (he asked them if he wanted a demonstration from mjolnir)

It seems likely to me that Loki stripped him of his powers, or more likely, based on Thor's diologue when his powers failed him, Odin stripped Thor of his powers because he felt Thor had failed him.

Thats a very good shout actually. It makes sense of a lot of his dialogue, you've convinced me it was odins doing.

True. But if it was designed to hold Banner, then it was probably designed to hold The Hulk. Since, you know, Bruce Banner is The Hulk.

Yeah i've cracked open the back issues, turns out the hulk can easily break out of the cell as long as none of the restraints (gas apparently) are operational.

 

[The Question]

Well his dialogue suggested it was mjolnir he was using to do it (he asked them if he wanted a demonstration from mjolnir)

True. But, as I said, he wasn't even touching it, so it's likely that the power is inherent within him. He is the god of thunder, after all. He didn't receive Mjolnir until long after he received that tittle.

Yeah i've cracked open the back issues, turns out the hulk can easily break out of the cell as long as none of the restraints (gas apparently) are operational.

True. But's probably that the gas is strong enough to kill a few hundred bull eliphants, and thus enough to knock out The Hulk or Thor.

 

[celldog]

I didn't read all these posts.

Was that the Squadron Supreme at the end of the book??

 

[Horrorfan]

Back to the question thats been ignored like ten times:

what SS vs Ultimate character fights have happened thus far?

 

[The Question]

Back to the question thats been ignored like ten times:

what SS vs Ultimate character fights have happened thus far?

Well, they seem to have ripped the roof off of the top of the Baxter Building. Besides that, nothing.

 

[Horrorfan]

Well, they seem to have ripped the roof off of the top of the Baxter Building. Besides that, nothing.

thanks. thats a tad disappointing. lets hope we get a thor/hyperion wolvie/nighthawk or cap/nighthawk brawl somewhere.

 

[gildea]

Fairly sure you will, but its a 9 part mini so it'll no doubt be a while in coming.

 

[Zenien]

I haven't seen a new issue of Squadron Supreme in a while, is the regular series on hold while Ultimate Power is running? I know were going back to getting SS minis (Like the Hyperior/Nighthawk one that's upcoming)

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I doubt that. His destroying of the alien ships and beating the crap out of all of those super soldiers seemed ti be, in part, based on brute strength.



Thor, in the myths, could lift his hammer without the belt. And really, it seemed to me that Loki manipulated reality so Thor's powers failed at that time.



The cell was designed to hold The Hulk.

Mjolner's magic could've easily been the cause over brute strength, as all the feats that were possible of the hammer, were related specifically to the hammer, and not to the wielder. (Toppling giants, destroying mountains). Thor DID need the belt (Can't find the source online for it at the moment. Apparently my home database is proving to be rather unattainable at the moment. Though several online sources seem to agree), and he also required special iron gloves (Despite the heavy fact that others found they could move Mjolner without these items, leading to the idea that Mjolner couldn't be used for attacking things without these items). And Loki, while being a reality manipulator, I doubt he has the ability to distort Thor's power, and in place, like you said, instill the idea that Odin retracted his power. Or more likely, Thor just wasn't as powerful without his gear. The hammer is needed for flight, and the girdle is required to operate the hammer. So if the girdle is gone (with the added "bonus" of removing tons of his strength), the hammer won't respond, and Thor just falls to the ground, making him easy pickings for the other, rather powerful, superhumans.

And he actually recieved his title of "Thunder God" because of Mjolner, and the thunder claps it makes when it strikes something. In fact, several Scandanavians viewed lightning strikes at Thor sending his hammer to strike down something. And Mjolner had a plethora of powers at it's disposal, including size manipulation.

 

[fifthfiend]

Huh, I remembered a daisy cutter being described are more powerful then a standard Nuke, my bad.

Yeah, a daisy cutter's just a conventional bomb that packs the force of a nuke.

If anyone's got the relevant ultimates and Squad Supreme comics handy, a comparison of explosive force dropped on these guys would be a help.

 

[yahman]

I wasn't talking about differences in the laws of physics.

U clearly were ..... *goes off to find quote *

1) Thor didn't expect Collosus to be as strong as he was, and was taken by surprise.

Speculation, and unimportant, as they are both have compareably 'insect' strength to Hyperion

2) Hyperion has never moved tectonic plates. He smashed into the ground, creating a massive shockwave that can be measured on the same scale used to measure the shockwaves caused when tectonic plates move.

IMO that means the same thing ..... There is no way that either Ultimate Thor or Colossus have strength that could be accurately measured on the Richter scale, especially at the levels demonstrated by Hyperion.

 

[Horrorfan]

Colossus had melting hot lava poured on him with no physical damage...

Stopped a train just by standing there and derailed it

 

[yahman]

Colossus had melting hot lava poured on him with no physical damage...

Stopped a train just by standing there and derailed it

Hyperion survived a collision that released the energy equivalent to a Terraton nuclear bomb (If it existed). A Speed train collision wouldn't even release a Kilo ton. the two incidents and respective durabilitys are incomparable.

 

[The Question]

Speculation, and unimportant, as they are both have compareably 'insect' strength to Hyperion

Neither one has been shown to be considerably weaker. It's simply that neither one has preformed feats on the level of Hyperion as of yet.

IMO that means the same thing .....

It's not a matter of opinion, and it's not the same thing. The Richter Scale meassures the severity of earthquakes. Natural earthquakes are caused when two tectonic plates move against one another. One can generate a shockwave that can be meassured on the Richter Scale without moving tectonic place. It's how they meassure the force of nuclear explosions.

There is no way that either Ultimate Thor or Colossus have strength that could be accurately measured on the Richter scale, especially at the levels demonstrated by Hyperion.

Actually, they can. A tiny shockwave that barely shakes a room is meassured on the Richter Scale. It's not ver high on it, but it's on it. And Hyperion made the 10 point something shockwave by flying up into the upper atmosphere and slamming into the ground at full force. It's not something he does regularly.

 

[The Question]

Mjolner's magic could've easily been the cause over brute strength, as all the feats that were possible of the hammer, were related specifically to the hammer, and not to the wielder. (Toppling giants, destroying mountains). Thor DID need the belt (Can't find the source online for it at the moment. Apparently my home database is proving to be rather unattainable at the moment. Though several online sources seem to agree),

That's not true. He was considered the physically strongest of all the Norse gods long before he obtained the hammer and the belt.

and he also required special iron gloves (Despite the heavy fact that others found they could move Mjolner without these items, leading to the idea that Mjolner couldn't be used for attacking things without these items).

He needed the gloves to hold the hammer after using it because the hammer heated up too much in combat for him to weild.

And Loki, while being a reality manipulator, I doubt he has the ability to distort Thor's power, and in place, like you said, instill the idea that Odin retracted his power. Or more likely, Thor just wasn't as powerful without his gear. The hammer is needed for flight, and the girdle is required to operate the hammer. So if the girdle is gone (with the added "bonus" of removing tons of his strength), the hammer won't respond, and Thor just falls to the ground, making him easy pickings for the other, rather powerful, superhumans.

The girdle isn't required to operate the hammer. Not in the myths or in any of the comics. It seems much more likely that Odin simply stripped him of his powers.

And he actually recieved his title of "Thunder God" because of Mjolner, and the thunder claps it makes when it strikes something. In fact, several Scandanavians viewed lightning strikes at Thor sending his hammer to strike down something. And Mjolner had a plethora of powers at it's disposal, including size manipulation.

But he was still in charge of the storms before receiving Mjolnir. And in The Ultimates, he was shown manipulating the weather without even touching Mjolnir.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

That's not true. He was considered the physically strongest of all the Norse gods long before he obtained the hammer and the belt.

I never said otherwise.

He needed the gloves to hold the hammer after using it because the hammer heated up too much in combat for him to weild.

Kind of like I said.

The girdle isn't required to operate the hammer. Not in the myths or in any of the comics. It seems much more likely that Odin simply stripped him of his powers.

Actually, several myth's point to the girdle being necessary. As well as several sources also saying it. I'll update this as soon as my home database becomes available to me again. (I desperately need a tech person.) The legends say he received his belt and gloves before receiving Mjolner, along with an invincible staff.

But he was still in charge of the storms before receiving Mjolnir. And in The Ultimates, he was shown manipulating the weather without even touching Mjolnir.

Actually, usually when God's had some ability that wasn't just purely physical, it was magical in nature. Magic, as in they had to cast spells and such, or use items that caused the affect. Loki and Freyja are good examples, as both had to learn massive amounts of magical studies before they could do much magic. And Thor was considered more or less of an idiot. However, Mjolner had several several abilities, as well as ressurecting animals and such that he had eaten. So it could stand to say that (especially since reading several Nordic stories, I don't remember Thor having many abilities [or much mention for that matter]) prior to him obtaining Mjolner, that he had much control over anything. He was definitely the strongest, most willing to fight, and definitely considered the greatest warrior of all Aesir beings, however, like all the other gods, his limitation was really just him. He wasn't smart, so he never practiced much magic, preferring to battle due to his superior strength and power, and given the fact he was really only doing spectacular stuff only AFTER receiving Mjolner (especially given that Magni had little to no mention, or did anything spectacular until HE received Mjolner), would say that most of his powers came from his items. He was more or less just thought of as fertility over weather.

Also, Frey was the god in control of rain and sunshine (which most Scandanavians attributed to weather, since snow was a function of rain.)

And in the Ultimates, they're not really following much of him anyway. So, while I will say in the Ultimates, he could do these things. The myth's didn't really show him doing much more than just rushing on to the scene and either slamming or throwing the hammer.

 

[The Question]

I never said otherwise.

He didn't obtain the betlt into a ways into his travels. He was already the strongest of the gods before obtaining it.

Actually, several myth's point to the girdle being necessary. As well as several sources also saying it. I'll update this as soon as my home database becomes available to me again. (I desperately need a tech person.) The legends say he received his belt and gloves before receiving Mjolner, along with an invincible staff.

The legends say he reseived the belt, gloves, and staff after receiving Mjolnir when he was challanged to a duel with no weapons and subsiquently betrayed.

Actually, usually when God's had some ability that wasn't just purely physical, it was magical in nature. Magic, as in they had to cast spells and such, or use items that caused the affect.

Most gods I've read of never cast any spells. They either used some mystical object or did what they wanted by willing it to happen.

Loki and Freyja are good examples, as both had to learn massive amounts of magical studies before they could do much magic. And Thor was considered more or less of an idiot. However, Mjolner had several several abilities, as well as ressurecting animals and such that he had eaten. So it could stand to say that (especially since reading several Nordic stories, I don't remember Thor having many abilities [or much mention for that matter]) prior to him obtaining Mjolner, that he had much control over anything. He was definitely the strongest, most willing to fight, and definitely considered the greatest warrior of all Aesir beings, however, like all the other gods, his limitation was really just him. He wasn't smart, so he never practiced much magic, preferring to battle due to his superior strength and power, and given the fact he was really only doing spectacular stuff only AFTER receiving Mjolner (especially given that Magni had little to no mention, or did anything spectacular until HE received Mjolner), would say that most of his powers came from his items. He was more or less just thought of as fertility over weather.

The Hammer's only properties were that it was indestructible and returned to him on command.

Also, Frey was the god in control of rain and sunshine (which most Scandanavians attributed to weather, since snow was a function of rain.)

And in the Ultimates, they're not really following much of him anyway. So, while I will say in the Ultimates, he could do these things. The myth's didn't really show him doing much more than just rushing on to the scene and either slamming or throwing the hammer.

As I said, in the Ultimates, he has used his ability to control the weather without even touching his hammer. And in 616, his ability to control the weather is inherent within him. The hammer simply boosts his magical abilities.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

He didn't obtain the betlt into a ways into his travels. He was already the strongest of the gods before obtaining it.

I still never said otherwise.

The legends say he reseived the belt, gloves, and staff after receiving Mjolnir when he was challanged to a duel with no weapons and subsiquently betrayed.

That sounds familiar. I'll have to reread as soon as my database is back to me.

Most gods I've read of never cast any spells. They either used some mystical object or did what they wanted by willing it to happen.

They all had to learn magic, or use runes and such. None were truly capable of huge magical things before hand.

The Hammer's only properties were that it was indestructible and returned to him on command.

And could never miss, launch lightning, shrink down, and destroy any object it hit. (Except for this stupid giant, which disproved that.)

As I said, in the Ultimates, he has used his ability to control the weather without even touching his hammer. And in 616, his ability to control the weather is inherent within him. The hammer simply boosts his magical abilities.

Like I said, the Ultimates doesn't portray an accurate Thor regardless.