Vengence as GR II villian?

[Saved]

I have been reading a whole bunch of Ghost Rider comics, and my favorite villian (besides Blackheart) is Vengence. I thought it would be cool for him to be in Ghost Rider II. Any thoughts?

 

[DoomRulz]

He's definitely bad-ass, but b/c I'm a purist, I don't want to see a Dan Ketch villain mixed in with Johnny Blaze.

I say bring in Orb. He was always a thorn in Blaze's side.

 

[Saved]

I don't want to see Ketch as a villian. He was a more sincere rider than Johhny. Michael Badilino as Vengeance! I could also see Scarecrow and the guy with thte pig tails, I forget his name.

And, for the pursuist part, Penance Stare, chains, and the black leather jkacket was all Ketch. Blaze had none of those so its a little late to not merge riders.

 

[DoomRulz]

I don't want to see Ketch as a villian. He was a more sincere rider than Johhny. Michael Badilino as Vengeance! I could also see Scarecrow and the guy with thte pig tails, I forget his name.

And, for the pursuist part, Penance Stare, chains, and the black leather jkacket was all Ketch. Blaze had none of those so its a little late to not merge riders.

You're absolutely right about the purist part...it was actually the first thing I noticed when I watched the trailer(s). The guy with the pig tails was Blackout. He had braids btw.

What do you mean merge riders?

 

[Saved]

They already did. Penance Stare and Flechete Chain was all Ketch. Plus the whole Blackheart thing. They already merged riders. Why not just merge villians now anyway. Its already happened. And thanks for the Blackout. I only read GR 25 so I had no clue who he was.

 

[DoomRulz]

They already did. Penance Stare and Flechete Chain was all Ketch. Plus the whole Blackheart thing. They already merged riders. Why not just merge villians now anyway. Its already happened. And thanks for the Blackout. I only read GR 25 so I had no clue who he was.

B/c if they merge villains, then we lose all hope for a Dan Ketch movie, which would be like a million times better b/c of the sequel opportunities.

 

[Saved]

B/c if they merge villains, then we lose all hope for a Dan Ketch movie, which would be like a million times better b/c of the sequel opportunities.

Dude, they already merged villians! Blackheart is a Dan Ketch villian. And most of GR's powers are Dan Ketch powers. Its already merged. They'll do a shout out to Ketch, but that is most likely it.

 

[DoomRulz]

Dude, they already merged villians! Blackheart is a Dan Ketch villian. And most of GR's powers are Dan Ketch powers. Its already merged. They'll do a shout out to Ketch, but that is most likely it.

Well actually, if you read the current GR series, it looks as though Johnny Blaze is possessed by the same spirit that possessed Ketch.

And Blackheart isn't a Ketch villain per se; he first appeared in the Ketch era that's true, but he's a Marvel-wide villain.

 

[Saved]

Well actually, if you read the current GR series, it looks as though Johnny Blaze is possessed by the same spirit that possessed Ketch.

And Blackheart isn't a Ketch villain per se; he first appeared in the Ketch era that's true, but he's a Marvel-wide villain.

Yeah, but because Ketch was so popular, they retconed Blaze so he could have the same powers and such as Ketch. In other words, JB Ghost Rider was not popular. GR2 w/ Ketch was. All of a sudden people liked Ketch. Now that Ketch is dead (I think) JB is the new GR with all of Ketch's powers. And BH maybe a world wide Marvel Villain, but he has harassed Ketch more than JB. That was my point.

 

[DoomRulz]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=275183

Check this thread out if you want to continue this discussion, otherwise I'll just be repeating myself.

 

[Saved]

I think Johnny as GR should just continue with the series. This thread is Vengeance for GR II.

 

[Cain Estrell]

IMHO, there's nothing good about maintaining a purist's view for Ghost Rider. Why? Both series had MANY flaws. We need changes if we want to improve his character's appeal. Retcon the plots that just make the story convoluted, and merging both Riders for the movies is actually a good idea for me. It leaves the story more open to creativity- to new ideas. You don't have to adapt the characters straight from the book. You just have to maintain the same, dark atmosphere that made their world so appealing- merge together the strong points of each series, while leaving out elements that didn't suit them well (Like Noble Kale's origin). I actually hope Dan's never made a main character. He wasn't really that "sincere", rather he was more like a whiner- complained a lot more times than I could even remember. I prefer the more mature, older Blaze.

Dan's series may be more popular, but most people, especially us older fans- the ones who've been around since the 1st series -tend to familiarize with Blaze, better. I've always thought creating Dan was a bad idea to begin with. It should've remained Blaze when they made the 90's comic. That way they could've avoided more confusion in the series' entire story. I'm actually pleased that they've killed off Dan and brought Blaze back. We need only 1 Ghost Rider, and IMO, nothing beats the original (just like Peter Parker vs Ben Reilly).

As for Vengeance- yes, I would love it if he'd be the villain in a sequel (he's my favorite! t but NOT AT THIS TIME. Remember that they've already had so much trouble designing GR (who's only CGI part was his head, and sometimes his hands). Vengeance is EVEN HARDER to design- with all that "unique" body parts of his, they would have to spend A LOT of money just to render him in CGI. Putting Vengeance in GR 2 would only cause more problems for the team (unless they conjure up with a really BIG budget- which I doubt is possible at this time). I'd say focus first on GR's fight scenes. Make him some stylish moves (like that awesome somersault kick he used in the video game ), and bring up a more "human" villain for him to do battle with- like Blackout! (He doesn't really need any CGI- just find a tall, athletic actor to portray him & give the guy proper makeup- and he's all set! t I believe it's a wiser idea if they leave out Vengeance first- then introduce him later in part 3 should part 2 prove to be successful. The more success a movie gets, the bigger the chance for a bigger-budget sequel.

 

[Optimus Prime.]

JB All the way

 

[TwilightPro101]

IMHO, there's nothing good about maintaining a purist's view for Ghost Rider. Why? Both series had MANY flaws. We need changes if we want to improve his character's appeal. Retcon the plots that just make the story convoluted, and merging both Riders for the movies is actually a good idea for me. It leaves the story more open to creativity- to new ideas. You don't have to adapt the characters straight from the book. You just have to maintain the same, dark atmosphere that made their world so appealing- merge together the strong points of each series, while leaving out elements that didn't suit them well (Like Noble Kale's origin). I actually hope Dan's never made a main character. He wasn't really that "sincere", rather he was more like a whiner- complained a lot more times than I could even remember. I prefer the more mature, older Blaze.

Dan's series may be more popular, but most people, especially us older fans- the ones who've been around since the 1st series -tend to familiarize with Blaze, better. I've always thought creating Dan was a bad idea to begin with. It should've remained Blaze when they made the 90's comic. That way they could've avoided more confusion in the series' entire story. I'm actually pleased that they've killed off Dan and brought Blaze back. We need only 1 Ghost Rider, and IMO, nothing beats the original (just like Peter Parker vs Ben Reilly).

As for Vengeance- yes, I would love it if he'd be the villain in a sequel (he's my favorite! t but NOT AT THIS TIME. Remember that they've already had so much trouble designing GR (who's only CGI part was his head, and sometimes his hands). Vengeance is EVEN HARDER to design- with all that "unique" body parts of his, they would have to spend A LOT of money just to render him in CGI. Putting Vengeance in GR 2 would only cause more problems for the team (unless they conjure up with a really BIG budget- which I doubt is possible at this time). I'd say focus first on GR's fight scenes. Make him some stylish moves (like that awesome somersault kick he used in the video game ), and bring up a more "human" villain for him to do battle with- like Blackout! (He doesn't really need any CGI- just find a tall, athletic actor to portray him & give the guy proper makeup- and he's all set! t I believe it's a wiser idea if they leave out Vengeance first- then introduce him later in part 3 should part 2 prove to be successful. The more success a movie gets, the bigger the chance for a bigger-budget sequel.

Agree entirely.

 

[Saved]

I prefer JB, but there is no denying Ketch had the best powers and villians.

 

[Cain Estrell]

I prefer JB, but there is no denying Ketch had the best powers and villians.

He "had", but NOT anymore! t: ("Powers", that is) If you've been keeping up with the current series (especially issue # 13) you'll see that JB's powers have far-surpassed Dan's. Coupled with that, his "new Spirit" is a lot more badass than ol' "talkative Kale". And I bet it's only a matter of time before we see the baddies start swarming back into the spotlight....

Although, now that I've started to like him better, I kinda hope Dan will return someday as a supporting character. He is a nice boy, after all , and I'm sure that role would suit him well.

As we all know, JB's suffering torment worse than ever these days. Technically, he's not even "human", anymore- so to speak. The poor man deserves some moral support to lift his spirits up , and who better to provide that role than his last remaining sibling? Dan's a good brother, and I'm sure he can bring back the old JB we used to know: The guy who can kick-ass!!! t: I hope DK comes back. I guess I kinda miss him, too, nowadays.......

 

[TwilightPro101]

He "had", but NOT anymore! t: ("Powers", that is) If you've been keeping up with the current series (especially issue # 13) you'll see that JB's powers have far-surpassed Dan's. Coupled with that, his "new Spirit" is a lot more badass than ol' "talkative Kale". And I bet it's only a matter of time before we see the baddies start swarming back into the spotlight....

Although, now that I've started to like him better, I kinda hope Dan will return someday as a supporting character. He is a nice boy, after all , and I'm sure that role would suit him well.

As we all know, JB's suffering torment worse than ever these days. Technically, he's not even "human", anymore- so to speak. The poor man deserves some moral support to lift his spirits up , and who better to provide that role than his last remaining sibling? Dan's a good brother, and I'm sure he can bring back the old JB we used to know: The guy who can kick-ass!!! t: I hope DK comes back. I guess I kinda miss him, too, nowadays.......

There's always a loophole to bring Dan back into play. I find myself agreeing storyline-wise. The new J.B. is more true to form and very effective when it comes down to things.

 

[Saved]

He "had", but NOT anymore! t: ("Powers", that is) If you've been keeping up with the current series (especially issue # 13) you'll see that JB's powers have far-surpassed Dan's. Coupled with that, his "new Spirit" is a lot more badass than ol' "talkative Kale". And I bet it's only a matter of time before we see the baddies start swarming back into the spotlight....

Although, now that I've started to like him better, I kinda hope Dan will return someday as a supporting character. He is a nice boy, after all , and I'm sure that role would suit him well.

As we all know, JB's suffering torment worse than ever these days. Technically, he's not even "human", anymore- so to speak. The poor man deserves some moral support to lift his spirits up , and who better to provide that role than his last remaining sibling? Dan's a good brother, and I'm sure he can bring back the old JB we used to know: The guy who can kick-ass!!! t: I hope DK comes back. I guess I kinda miss him, too, nowadays.......

Where do you think the current GR learned his tricks? Anyway, I am loving the current GR series. Its really good. Like the current arc too. But Its about time Mephisto, Blackheart, Vengeance, and Scarecrow re-enter the spotlight.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

IMHO, there's nothing good about maintaining a purist's view for Ghost Rider. Why? Both series had MANY flaws. We need changes if we want to improve his character's appeal. Retcon the plots that just make the story convoluted, and merging both Riders for the movies is actually a good idea for me. It leaves the story more open to creativity- to new ideas. You don't have to adapt the characters straight from the book. You just have to maintain the same, dark atmosphere that made their world so appealing- merge together the strong points of each series, while leaving out elements that didn't suit them well (Like Noble Kale's origin). I actually hope Dan's never made a main character. He wasn't really that "sincere", rather he was more like a whiner- complained a lot more times than I could even remember. I prefer the more mature, older Blaze.

Dan's series may be more popular, but most people, especially us older fans- the ones who've been around since the 1st series -tend to familiarize with Blaze, better. I've always thought creating Dan was a bad idea to begin with. It should've remained Blaze when they made the 90's comic. That way they could've avoided more confusion in the series' entire story. I'm actually pleased that they've killed off Dan and brought Blaze back. We need only 1 Ghost Rider, and IMO, nothing beats the original (just like Peter Parker vs Ben Reilly).

As for Vengeance- yes, I would love it if he'd be the villain in a sequel (he's my favorite! t but NOT AT THIS TIME. Remember that they've already had so much trouble designing GR (who's only CGI part was his head, and sometimes his hands). Vengeance is EVEN HARDER to design- with all that "unique" body parts of his, they would have to spend A LOT of money just to render him in CGI. Putting Vengeance in GR 2 would only cause more problems for the team (unless they conjure up with a really BIG budget- which I doubt is possible at this time). I'd say focus first on GR's fight scenes. Make him some stylish moves (like that awesome somersault kick he used in the video game ), and bring up a more "human" villain for him to do battle with- like Blackout! (He doesn't really need any CGI- just find a tall, athletic actor to portray him & give the guy proper makeup- and he's all set! t I believe it's a wiser idea if they leave out Vengeance first- then introduce him later in part 3 should part 2 prove to be successful. The more success a movie gets, the bigger the chance for a bigger-budget sequel.

TOTALLY agree, i'm more of a Blaze fan as well.

And yeah, i think Vengeance would be too much budget wise for GR2, i mena, Msj has stated how hard it was for them do action scene's while rendering GR, so imagine trying to do them with GR and Vengeance on screen at the same time!

Leave Vengeance for GR3 and lets have Blackout anf Scarecrow for GR 2.

 

[Saved]

I'm not familiar with Blackout. Got a pic?

 

[Cain Estrell]

Where do you think the current GR learned his tricks?

That I'm not sure myself, yet. But the "Trail of Tears" mini-series gives us veeeery interesting hints. You should pick them up in case you haven't read 'em yet. It's a great story. Promise, you won't be disappointed.....

 

[Saved]

Already bought them. I gotta say though, the story got very confusing over the monthly gaps. Thats should be read one after the other, not here and there.

 

[Cain Estrell]

Already bought them. I gotta say though, the story got very confusing over the monthly gaps. Thats should be read one after the other, not here and there.

In a sense, they did seem rather confusing- but then again, what else can you expect from Garth Ennis? But still, it was a very impressive read. The revelations of past and future GRs (too bad Travis only get to be the "witness"- and not a GR, himself) is something I'll be sure to remember for the next years to come. I tell you, we're all looking at the impending evolution of ol' Bonehead, here...

 

[Saved]

And now Travis only has one arm and no tail, if you get my drift.

 

[Cain Estrell]

And now Travis only has one arm and no tail, if you get my drift.

ROTFL!!! t: Poor Travis....

I'm not familiar with Blackout. Got a pic?

Here's a nice pic of our albino friend:
http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Bizzaro.asp?UniqueId=184

I found it on a site dedicated to comicbook villains. Pretty neat! They even have mini-bios & stuff.