Villains we need to see in this Batman solo franchise

[CondimentKing]

What if Freeze is used in the sequel as a big turning point for Bruce in becoming more sympathetic towards the supervillains? I would love to see Bruce and Victor (or any villain tbh but especially him) connect on some level and understand each other in some heartfelt way

 

[shauner111]

@Eddie Dean yeaaaahhh but I still don’t see how you can pull that off unless you pull a Black Panther or Infinity War and actually spend some time with that villain. That’s why it worked. I really don’t think Reeves will suddenly do what Nolan or Burton did with perspective.

 

[Eddie Dean]

The thing about Two-Face for me, I don't think his dual sides can really be achieved in the tone this series is going for. He's fun for having bank robberies where he only takes two dollar bills or whatever, but the only way you can make him both a "good" and "bad" villain is having him bump off corrupt cops or politicians, which is a mix of what Nolan did and what Riddler is doing in this film, or having him going after criminals he knows are guilty but can't legally touch, which again is a mix of Nolan and this film's version of The Riddler. In a more lighthearted or heightened tone for Batman you can have his "good" side becoming conflicted in the middle of a bank robbery and taking over, but for something like this I don't think you can do that without being cheesy.

 

[shauner111]

What if Freeze is used in the sequel as a big turning point for Bruce in becoming more sympathetic towards the supervillains? I would love to see Bruce and Victor (or any villain tbh but especially him) connect on some level and understand each other in some heartfelt way

True. Works for Two Face and Batman too. Bruce looking at Harvey like ahhh man, this poor bastard.

That’s why I like Martha Arkham. It’s a part of Bruce. It’s in his family. Like his mother, he wants to rehabilitate these criminals. He checks on Riddler to see his progress throughout the series. Same with Joker but he’s a lost cause. The devil incarnate.

 

[Eddie Dean]

@Eddie Dean yeaaaahhh but I still don’t see how you can pull that off unless you pull a Black Panther or Infinity War and actually spend some time with that villain. That’s why it worked. I really don’t think Reeves will suddenly do what Nolan or Burton did with perspective.

Never saw never. Maybe he'll want to switch it up for a sequel. He said Returns is his favorite Batfilm, where Batman is basically a supporting character.

Even still, I don't think you need to make Freeze or any villain the protag to make it work. Just look at what he did with Koba in Dawn of Planet of the Apes. I'd say he's probably the fourth lead after Caesar, Jason Clarke and Oldman, but he's a fully formed character with understandable and even sympathetic motivations.

 

[CondimentKing]

@shauner111 Yeah for sure - I think my Matthew McConaughey washed up Two-Face idea with Harvey as Bruce's old hero and inspiration for cleaning up the city could play perfectly into that sympathy angle (If I do say so myself lol)

 

[shauner111]

The thing about Two-Face for me, I don't think his dual sides can really be achieved in the tone this series is going for. He's fun for having bank robberies where he only takes two dollar bills or whatever, but the only way you can make him both a "good" and "bad" villain is having him bump off corrupt cops or politicians, which is a mix of what Nolan did and what Riddler is doing in this film, or having him going after criminals he knows are guilty but can't legally touch, which again is a mix of Nolan and this film's version of The Riddler. In a more lighthearted or heightened tone for Batman you can have his "good" side becoming conflicted in the middle of a bank robbery and taking over, but for something like this I don't think you can do that without being cheesy.

See, I believe we’ll have some cheese. Pattinson’s outbursts in the Lighthouse when he’s losing his mind is how I see the Ego scenes playing out. That type of humor. It’s super weird and even slightly cheesy but it just works. Tomlin describes it as fun.

I’ll keep saying it until you jabronies see Possessor and Black Bear Christopher Abbott would do this without being cheesy. Where you just sit there like “holy ****”.

 

[CondimentKing]

Nah, there's no way the Ego scenes are played off as ridiculous imo, definitely disagree there. If those exist they'll be key emotional scenes that are needed for the audience to get inside his head and understand his motivations

I do think Bruce will crack some jokes though, maybe in narration. And I have a feeling the tone won't be as uber dark as the trailer suggests given Reeves called this Bruce a humanitarian who loves people. I'm glad the Lego sets suggest it will be PG-13. Kids deserve a Batman for their generation

 

[shauner111]

Never saw never. Maybe he'll want to switch it up for a sequel. He said Returns is his favorite Batfilm, where Batman is basically a supporting character.

Even still, I don't think you need to make Freeze or any villain the protag to make it work. Just look at what he did with Koba in Dawn of Planet of the Apes. I'd say he's probably the fourth lead after Caesar, Jason Clarke and Oldman, but he's a fully formed character with understandable and even sympathetic motivations.

Returns and TDK are his favs but he doesn’t want to do what they did. I’d make an exception for Strange or Freeze, as a fan. But I kinda hope he sticks with this Taxi Driver mentality. Freeze would need much more time than Koba IMO.

 

[shauner111]

Nah, there's no way the Ego scenes are played off as ridiculous imo, definitely disagree there. If those exist they'll be key emotional scenes that are needed for the audience to get inside his head and understand his motivations

I do think Bruce will crack some jokes though, maybe in narration. And I have a feeling the tone won't be as uber dark as the trailer suggests given Reeves called this Bruce a humanitarian who loves people. I'm glad the Lego sets suggest it will be PG-13. Kids deserve a Batman for their generation

Half serious, half fun. Like I said Tomlin insinuated there were Ego-esque scenes that were going to be really fun. One thing I know about Pattinson, when he has a scene where he’s allowed to push it really far, he’s like Tom Hardy. He’s not afraid to go ham. His words were he wants to push it really far lol. People aren’t ready for what they’re about to witness lol trust me.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Returns and TDK are his favs but he doesn’t want to do what they did. I’d make an exception for Strange or Freeze, as a fan. But I kinda hope he sticks with this Taxi Driver mentality. Freeze would need much more time than Koba IMO.

For what reason?

 

[Eddie Dean]

Ok, and on the strictly Bruce's POV thing, how do we explain the scene of Riddler murdering the mayor? I don't think we should be taking it so literally.

 

[shauner111]

Not strictly. Not every scene. But for the most part it’s gonna be following Batman.

I didn’t empathize that much with Koba. We didn’t spend that much time with him. That was perfect for what that story needed. Freeze needs the same amount of attention as Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Spider-Man 2 is probably the most POV superhero movie there is. The whole movie is from Peter's vantage point, except maybe Aunt May at the bank? Films have had great villains as the secondary character since the invention of film. It should be easy for Reeves.

 

[shauner111]

There are plenty of scenes entirely from Otto’s POV.

 

[Eddie Dean]

There's him waking up with the arms and him talking to Harry. Everything else Peter is present for. Fits right into your Riddler description.

 

[BigBatTheory]

Had an idea about an Ego scene. This punching the glass moment might be after Bruce gets back from riding with Selina where he ends up getting dosed with Drops. He then has a smalllll breakdown, still tripping balls or whatever, seeing Batman in the mirror the way he's seen himself suit up in the mirror every night for the past year or so. Then ends up seeing a vision of a giant bat crashing through the mirror ala Year One which is the shot that transitions to him coming too, collapsed on the floor a sweaty mess.

I thought that would be neat lol

Oh and it would reflect the animated title card which has his Bat symbol essentially flying up to a pane of similarly scratched glass.

 

[shauner111]

He needs as much as Doc Ock at the very least and I’d say probably a LOT more than that the more I think about it.

We don’t know how much time is spent with Riddler behind closed doors. And I really mean with him, what he’s going through. Not just a taped up figure wrapping up a body in disguise.

 

[Eddie Dean]

There's not really a reason why except that you say so. BTAS did it in a 22 minute episode.

 

[Eddie Dean]

This a really frustrating part whenever a director uses figurative language to describe the vibe or feeling he's trying to create. A POV driven story doesn't mean literally the whole film is told from just a single character's viewpoint. Taxi Driver has scenes used to build Cybil Shepard's and Jodie Foster's characters that Travis is not present for. Silence of the Lambs is unequivocally from Clarice's POV (sometimes literally), but still has scenes from Catherine Martell's, Hannibal's or Buffalo Bill's viewpoint. Even Batman Begins I would describe as a POV driven story.

Even worse is the dogmatic way of viewing what Reeves has said about one film and applying to everything going forward. Who knows what his intentions are for future films? It's just as likely he would want to view Batman from a different character's perspective after focusing so heavily on it in this film as it is he will keep the series from Bruce's POV.

 

[shauner111]

There's not really a reason why except that you say so. BTAS did it in a 22 minute episode.

It was a two parter and most of it was Freeze lol

 

[shauner111]

This a really frustrating part whenever a director uses figurative language to describe the vibe or feeling he's trying to create. A POV driven story doesn't mean literally the whole film is told from just a single character's viewpoint. Taxi Driver has scenes used to build Cybil Shepard's and Jodie Foster's characters that Travis is not present for. Silence of the Lambs is unequivocally from Clarice's POV (sometimes literally), but still has scenes from Catherine Martell's, Hannibal's or Buffalo Bill's viewpoint. Even Batman Begins I would describe as a POV driven story.

Even worse is the dogmatic way of viewing what Reeves has said about one film and applying to everything going forward. Who knows what his intentions are for future films? It's just as likely he would want to view Batman from a different character's perspective after focusing so heavily on it in this film as it is he will keep the series from Bruce's POV.

I literally said “not strict”...yet you’re acting like I’m saying “strictly from batman’s POV from start to finish”.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Heart of Ice was a single episode bud.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I literally said “not strict”...yet you’re acting like I’m saying “strictly from batman’s POV from start to finish”.

So why can't that not strict part work with Freeze?

Because you said so?

 

[shauner111]

Because he deserves the Heart of Ice treatment. And you would need a lot of time spent with Victor in order to achieve that. Anything less is a disservice. Because I said so? Well yeah it’s my opinion after all. Should there be another reason?