Villains who should have never turned good

[KangConquers]

As we all know, there's always been a trend in comics of turning villains good; redemption is a cornerstone of hero comics, dating back to Hawkeye, the Silver Surfer etc. But sometimes, characters just should not turn good.

I love Emma Frost as a character. She's manipulative, she's sexy, she's intelligent. But am I the only one who still finds her being a good guy incredibly forced, 13 years later? I loved The White Queen when I was young because she was incredibly unlikeable and cruel, serving as a foil to the noble X-Women such as Storm. her being a hero still bothers me years later.

So which villain turned hero bothers you the most?

 

[Red]

Iron Man, or was that the other way round?

 

[Ikaris-Eternal]

i thought juggernaut as a good guy was lame.

 

[KangConquers]

i thought juggernaut as a good guy was lame.

I like him as a good guy. I never thought his core motivation was evil. He was just an angry man...and it twisted him.

I don't have a problem with big thug types turning good; I just hate when evil mastermind types (not the character) turn good.

 

[PhotoJones]

Nah, Juggs isn't even angry. He's just a mook.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Venom

 

[KangConquers]

Nah, Juggs isn't even angry. He's just a mook.

Eh...he's always been jealous of Charles...but yeah...he was never evil in the sense that a true villain is. Not like Doom or Kang or a truly rotten villain.

 

[PhotoJones]

Eh...he's always been jealous of Charles...but yeah...he was never evil in the sense that a true villain is. Not like Doom or Kang or a truly rotten villain.

He just one of those guys, you know? The thug that's not mean spirited or anything.

 

[PaleRider]

Deadpool, and Sabertooth. Sabertooth especially he was a cold blooded killer yet he's been a member of the X-men?

 

[KangConquers]

Deadpool, and Sabertooth. Sabertooth especially he was a cold blooded killer yet he's been a member of the X-men?

I like Deadpool as a good guy, though I can see the argument against it.

Sabretooth is a bastard though.

Does anyone agree with me on Emma, and think she's a terrible fit for a hero?

 

[Anubis]

Not really. I like her as a morally questionable heroine. It works for her.

I don't think Zemo should stay a good guy though. After his Born Better mini, what side he's on is still kinda up in the air at this point.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I too like Emma as a morally questionable heroine. She adds spice to the X-Men roster.

 

[PhotoJones]

Not really. I like her as a morally questionable heroine. It works for her.

I don't think Zemo should stay a good guy though. After his Born Better mini, what side he's on is still kinda up in the air at this point.

How did Born Better end?

 

[KangConquers]

I too like Emma as a morally questionable heroine. She adds spice to the X-Men roster.

I guess I was a little harsh, but I did love the Hellfire Club, they brought a different type of villainry to marvel, and Emma was one of their chief members.

 

[SuperMonkey]

Thunderbolts

EDIT: And Emma and with all the stuff happening with her, right now, yet her appearing in other books as still good.

W T F, MAN?

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Is someone behind on Torn? Because Torn prettty much concluded the Emma's psyche had created the new Hellfire Club and that she never did betray the X-Men.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Not really. I like her as a morally questionable heroine. It works for her.

I don't think Zemo should stay a good guy though. After his Born Better mini, what side he's on is still kinda up in the air at this point.

That's the Zemo I love, actually. He's boring as a villain and not believable as a hero, but a totally morally gray wildcard? Perfect fit. I like that he believes the world needs saving and that he's so egotistical that he believes he's gotta be the one to save it by any means necessary.

Anyway, I'm gonna go ahead and agree with whoever said Sabretooth. The guy's not just a killer--he pretty much qualifies as a mass murderer at this point. Yet he's still been welcomed onto the X-Men's roster not once, but twice now. I get the idea that heroes ought to be forgiving, but seriously, he's two steps shy of Hitler, only he kills indiscriminately rather than genocidally.

 

[Max Shrek]

I personally think Emma's a better "hero" than she ever was a villain.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I only started getting interested in Emma during her Generation X days.

 

[The Question]

That's the Zemo I love, actually. He's boring as a villain and not believable as a hero, but a totally morally gray wildcard? Perfect fit. I like that he believes the world needs saving and that he's so egotistical that he believes he's gotta be the one to save it by any means necessary.

My only problem with that is that it's a little done. I mean, that's kind of Dr. Doom, Magneto, Lex Luthor, and Ras Al Ghul's whole schtick. Not that Zemo should go back to being pure evil, but maybe he should be a little different, and a little more flawed in other areas. Like, maybe reference the fact that he was raised by a Nazi by making him, at the very least, a little racist.

Anyway, I'm gonna go ahead and agree with whoever said Sabretooth. The guy's not just a killer--he pretty much qualifies as a mass murderer at this point. Yet he's still been welcomed onto the X-Men's roster not once, but twice now. I get the idea that heroes ought to be forgiving, but seriously, he's two steps shy of Hitler, only he kills indiscriminately rather than genocidally.

I'd have to agree there. Creed is supposed to be Wolverine, but completely unrestrained. Just pure anger and bitterness. I don't mind folks like Xavier believing that he can be redeemed, since that's kind of Xavier's whole thing, but it shouldn't be as easy as it was for Logan.

 

[Dread]

Part of the problem with Sabretooth was that he was supposed to be an "evil Wolverine" during a time when Wolverine battled his inner rage and tried not to kill everyone he faced to sort of strive for some sort of Zen. Those sorts of stories haven't been done much in a decade so ever since Creed became "guy who slaughters innocent or good people as well as occasionally the usual soldier types" and Wolverine became "guy who kills bad people whenever he can". And then of course the 90's were full of big ideas like giving everyone a series who had any sort of fame, which included some of the figures here (Venom, Sabretooth) and usually readers can't root for stars who are total villains.

In terms of Venom, I actually liked the Lethal Protector bit when I was in Junior High. Years later, I see it as something that as an idea had potential, but in execution was botched. The main reason being, just because Venom decided to go out and fight crime doesn't mean he couldn't have been there to fight Spider-Man. His defense of "the innocent" could have included, say, deeming Gwen Stacy an "innocent" and blaming Peter for that because it was his webline. Even not, Spider-Man shouldn't have just done a collective shrug with Venom. He could have fit into that gray zone where Punisher is. But instead it was botched and overdone and Venom as a character has never been the same since, and in a way he was far better off a villain. I mean they had to shove Gargan into the symbiote because they felt Brock was so dead-end.

My issue with the Thunderbolts is they took a lot of reliable B and C listers off the table and no effort was made to replace them. Now that the book stars Ellis' psycho squad it seems even more pointless.

Juggernaut also had more punch as a villain then yet another megaton hero. He was a contrast of Xavier, back when writers wanted to actually write him as a moral person.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Magneto: "Hey, we know you're responsible for genocide and attempting to nuke the United States...but come run our school in Xavier's abscense anyways". Admittedly, he is a great morally ambiguous character, but in his tenure on the X-Men he struck me as just "Xavier with hair". Morrison's use of him was far more interesting.

Juggernaut: Just does absolutely nothing for me as a good guy, plus they try to paint him like he's the Thing...which is ridiculous.

Venom: Pretty much exactly why he takes so much crap in my opinion. Turning him into a Punisher type "hero" was obnoxious.

 

[RockSP]

i thought juggernaut as a good guy was lame.

Yep.

 

[The Question]

Magneto: "Hey, we know you're responsible for genocide and attempting to nuke the United States...but come run our school in Xavier's abscense anyways". Admittedly, he is a great morally ambiguous character, but in his tenure on the X-Men he struck me as just "Xavier with hair". Morrison's use of him was far more interesting.

While Morrison's use of Mags was very interesting, I think it was just as extreme as his tenure on he X-Men, just at the other end of the spectrum. I think Magneto works best when he's a truely grey character. He does absolutely terrible things and truely heroic and noble things, sometimes one right after the other, and you're honestly never sure where you stand with him.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

While Morrison's use of Mags was very interesting, I think it was just as extreme as his tenure on he X-Men, just at the other end of the spectrum. I think Magneto works best when he's a truely grey character. He does absolutely terrible things and truely heroic and noble things, sometimes one right after the other, and you're honestly never sure where you stand with him.

Seemed to me like Morrison did a good job of marrying Stan Lee's Magneto, who was a mustach twirling bigot. And Claremont's, who was a morally ambiguous cult leader. While Morrison was "extreme", his Magneto still believed in uplifting Mutants beyond their human oppressors.