Daredevil Vondie Curtis-Hall is Ben Urich

[TheVileOne]

To me there was something wrong with the fact that Urich was the only cast member who got race-bended for the show, and he's the only "good guy" in the main cast who died this season. Especially when he's never met a similar fate in the comics and his ongoing role in the Daredevil mythos. IMHO it sends the wrong message.

 

[Naked Shia]

what happened makes Daredevil the Game of Thrones of Comic book adaptations. It basically says "nobody is safe".

 

[TheVileOne]

what happened makes Daredevil the Game of Thrones of Comic book adaptations. It basically says "nobody is safe".

But that's not exactly true. Daredevil is safe. They aren't going to kill off Daredevil. Kingpin is pretty much safe. Foggy is more than likely safe.

The only ones who are not safe at this point are Karen Page and Elektra. Their deaths are pre-written.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I could see the Kingpin being killed off. Might be quite natural, actually.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I could see the Kingpin being killed off. Might be quite natural, actually.

Yeah, four season? Two with Kingpin and two with the Hand/Bullseye/Elektra.

And then 1 Defenders mini-series.

 

[warhorse78]

Spoiler

I call bologna on the notion that Ben's death was necessary. Killing Urich is the finest example of why Aristotle famously warned writers and speakers to avoid pathos as a cheap means of eliciting emotion from your audience, as this can obscure other important rhetorical elements such as logos (logic). Nothing in the plot was advanced by killing Urich, and even in the narrative, it is self-serving. Urich accuses the wrong person of being on the take from Fisk, and in the end we see whom the actual guilty party is, but that reveal had no real importance to the core narrative other than to show us that Urich was wrong. Killing off Urich was a tremendous waste of a character that has an enduring legacy in the comics, and often served as the person that operated as an informant and ally to a number of street-level heroes. With that said, this show had a problem in general with killing off too many characters.

On one hand, certain deaths really get to you, but mostly because of the attachment developed over time with any given character. I feel as though the writers for this show decided to copy Game of Thrones and start axing characters to build up that cheap suspense of "not knowing who could be next." It is one of the lamest tactics in modern writing/story-telling. Then again, can I be surprised that a story adapted from the comicbook medium has no real respect for dynamic writing regarding the nature of death? Comics themselves are without respect for the gravity of death. I can't honestly expect more from an adaptation from such a source.

Spoiler

Agreed. And I don't care what people think, the first thing that came to my mind when he got killed, was, oh great, they kill off the one good black guy off first. Fantastic. And in the end, his death meant nothing. Really, if they wanted to be ballsy about it and kill off someone who would have been a huge blow, kill off Karen! That whole thing with her killing Wesley just didn't feel right for me. This show was interesting to watch, but frustrating as well, because it was just cliche and trope, cliche and trope, one after the other.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Why are we still using spoiler code here?

But on race:

Spoiler

The cliche is not "the man black character dies." It's "the black guy is the first to die" or "only one to die." Here, it's indisputable that white characters died too (Wesley and Owlsley) and that black characters lived (Turk). I think it's a valid complaint that the main cast is very white (although I think credit should be given that it's a very international cast), but I don't think that should prevent them from killing off a character if it fits the story (which it did). And for those who say nothing came of it, let's see what they do in season two.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Why are people so up in arms about race? Get the **** over yourselves.

 

[marcvader]

At least there were two Hispanic characters. Oh wait, one was killed off.

 

[Naked Shia]

imo, the discrimination is not about black or hispanic actors being killed off. It's about people making a difference because of the ethny of one actor, when it has nothing to do with why his character dies.

 

[Whatupman]

Spoiler

Agreed. And I don't care what people think, the first thing that came to my mind when he got killed, was, oh great, they kill off the one good black guy off first. Fantastic. And in the end, his death meant nothing. Really, if they wanted to be ballsy about it and kill off someone who would have been a huge blow, kill off Karen! That whole thing with her killing Wesley just didn't feel right for me. This show was interesting to watch, but frustrating as well, because it was just cliche and trope, cliche and trope, one after the other.

Spoiler

You realize that killing Karen would have been a bigger cliché, right?

 

[Boy Scout]

I thought the character and the actor were great. They will be missed.

 

[warhorse78]

And for those who say nothing came of it, let's see what they do in season two.

True.

Spoiler

For all we know, thanks to Coulsen, Steve Rogers, Bucky, Nick Fury, well, death in the MCU really doesn't mean anything. And the fact that the funeral was a closed casket, Urich could have actually survived his encounter, but was just rushed off into witness protection and his death was faked to protect his wife and other people he loved.

 

[warhorse78]

Spoiler

You realize that killing Karen would have been a bigger cliché, right?

How? If anything, it would show that no matter how hard Matt tried

Spoiler

, he can't save everyone, no matter how determined he is. It would have been so uncliched for her to have survived all of that crap just to get offed by Wesley or Kingpin in the end. The black guy dying first is one of the biggest tropes in Hollywood, so please tell me how Karen would have been even more so?

 

[Mike Murdock]

A post-season interview with Steven DeKnight (Spoilers) In it, he was asked about Ben's death:

I’ve been known to kill off a character or two in my past (laughs). I wish I could take credit for this, but killing off Urich was decided before I signed on. I want to say it was Marvel’s idea. They really wanted to show that toward the end of the season because we knew we’d get some sympathy for Fisk (Vincent D’Onofrio), to have him do something truly terrible that would propel Matt into that final endgame in the confrontation with Fisk. And to let the audience know that the gloves were off: just because he was a beloved character in the comics, doesn’t mean he’s safe. It’s one interpretation. It’s like writers doing a new run of the comic. It felt right for the story. Much like episode four where Fisk kills Anatoly, not because he did something to cross him in the criminal world, but because he embarrassed him on a date. Urich gets murdered because he committed the unforgivable sin in Fisk’s mind: he went to Fisk’s mother. The last thing you want to do with Fisk is at all involve, insult, drag through the mud the women in his life he loves. That will be a serious trigger for him.

 

[Whatupman]

How? If anything, it would show that no matter how hard Matt tried

Spoiler

, he can't save everyone, no matter how determined he is. It would have been so uncliched for her to have survived all of that crap just to get offed by Wesley or Kingpin in the end. The black guy dying first is one of the biggest tropes in Hollywood, so please tell me how Karen would have been even more so?

Spoiler

But Ulrich wasn't the first to die. And killig a woman close to the male protagonist to further his pain is a tired trope and you can find it in so many TV-shows and movies. And of course comicbooks. I mean, that's even what happened to Karen in the comics.

 

[Mr.T]

I'm as mad as the next guy over Ben's death. However, we all know Karen is going to get hers sooner than later. Hopefully, before Matt or Foggy get romantically involved. The one refreshing aspect to the show was the platonic love shared among each of the 3 men and Karen. I'd like to see it stay that way and see Matt/Foggy go a different route with other women.

 

[Octavias]

A.) is a comic book adaptation... death means nothing. I will simply expect him to have faked a death for the rest of the series now, even if that was never intended to be the case.

B.) this was a poorly chosen gimmick to play on the "Game of thrones" vibe that's en vogue. For the reason listed above it doesn't really work.

C.) there were plenty of other options available to make kingpin unsympathetic and dangerous. Trying to spin it as they have is disingenuous. Call a spade what it is, they were trying to put their own stamp on the material, which is ok to try to do.


-I have no real problem with what they did, it simply feels silly to me. A name brand killing that took away a good character for no real purpose, despite whatever tripe they trot out as an excuse.

 

[warhorse78]

A.) is a comic book adaptation... death means nothing. I will simply expect him to have faked a death for the rest of the series now, even if that was never intended to be the case.

B.) this was a poorly chosen gimmick to play on the "Game of thrones" vibe that's en vogue. For the reason listed above it doesn't really work.

C.) there were plenty of other options available to make kingpin unsympathetic and dangerous. Trying to spin it as they have is disingenuous. Call a spade what it is, they were trying to put their own stamp on the material, which is ok to try to do.


-I have no real problem with what they did, it simply feels silly to me. A name brand killing that took away a good character for no real purpose, despite whatever tripe they trot out as an excuse.

Yeah, if they really wanted to go a different route, then they should have just had Kingpin kill Urich's wife, the woman trying to help Urich with the extentions and maybe some of the hospital workers. Maybe blow up the whole damn hospital, with mention that kids were in there. There, you got the tragic death, and maybe Urich could have truly become a father figure to Karen, which is something we don't see much in Hollywood. You want to get people riled against the big baddie, have him kill innocent kids.

It also opens a can of worms as well the way things went down, mama Fisk tells Wesley that she remembers Karen the most, but yet when Wilson calls her, he get Urich, and not Karen????? Mama Fisk was very detailed that Karen stood out to her, so again, how did Fisk get the Urich tie in?????

 

[chintai80]

It also opens a can of worms as well the way things went down, mama Fisk tells Wesley that she remembers Karen the most, but yet when Wilson calls her, he get Urich, and not Karen????? Mama Fisk was very detailed that Karen stood out to her, so again, how did Fisk get the Urich tie in?????

Fisk only knew about Urich visiting his mom because the assistant editor lady at the newspaper he worked out ratted him out when Ben told his editor about Fisk's history.
By the time Fisk was talking to his mom though, she had already forgotten about Ben and Karen visiting her.

At first we're made to believe it was Urich's ahole editor who snitched on him to Fisk, but during the FBI raid montage, we see them arrest the lady instead.