InCali
My Buddy - Max the Dog
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2014
- Messages
- 28,503
- Reaction score
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- 103
Don't force me to bring my crew in on this. I don't want things gettin ugly.
Don't force me to bring my crew in on this. I don't want things gettin ugly.
Loki was treated like ass in his own show. It seems the writers completely forgot he was Asgardian(I know Frost Giant parents but still)and made him a weak magician. He was getting beat one on one by regular people. He showed no super strength or planning, no fighting ability except as a brawler..............they just turned him into a normal person. He was so out of character the entire show! I'm going to end this here because I can write a graphic novel on this!!They were all varying degrees of mediocre to absolute crap, mostly because of the ineptitude of the writers:
1) Wanda Vision, an interesting concept until the end when we find out that Wanda is the real villain who enslaved a town full of people and turned them into human puppets because she couldn't deal with grief like an adult.
The writers betray their lack of talent when they have Rambeau try to paint Wanda as giving up something..." they'll never know what you sacrificed " what did she sacrifice ? Nothing, the Vision she created wasn't real, the kids weren't real - but the townspeople suffering was real.
So they show us Wanda doing something really evil , but tell us she's the victim. This is why good storytellers show rather than tell.
I do give the show points for developing Wanda's character in a way that makes sense and is consistent with some heel turns she actually went through in the comics.
All up 6/10.
2) Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Don't you love it when escapist entertainment brings in real world contemporary political issues and starting preaching a particular agenda - not in a subtle or clever way, but by literally shoving it in the audience's face..... well I don't!
Let's think about the most enjoyable and popular MCU films and how they tackled contemporary political issues.... they didn't, unless you want to take Thanos as making an important statement about overpopulation.
Remember how all the other Captain America movies dealt with racism. They didn't, but still managed to be great.
Some of you probably enjoyed how the series incorporated 2020's American racial politics into its story. Fair enough, that's your call. Me, if I want to see that stuff I'll watch the news. Superhero and comic book films are escapism, and I'm not interested in watching the characters import real world angst. "Do better Senator!" Thanks Sam, got any concrete suggestions or solutions as to how to resolve the complex multifaceted issues that have arisen after an unprecedented event like the snap/blip ? Nope, okay then.
Like WandaVision this show has some terrible messages - some of which come from the main character, that terrorism ( including murder) is actually okay.
Remember how Bucky was a deadly hand to hand combatant with decades of experience, and super strength? Wouldn't it be awesome if some angry millenials ( true they had taken the serum, but there's no way and women half his size could give him a legit problem in a fight....nope, it wasn't.
And I loved hearing about his feelings.
Sharon Carter turning to the dark side ( deciding to sell govt secrets ) totally made sense.... nope, pass on that one.
On the plus side I thought Mackie and Stan had good chemistry. That was enough to make the show watchable.
Zemo was very entertaining, but unfortunately he was so clever that he made our heroes look like morons over and over again. But the show was better for having him in it.
John Walker.... well, again the writers clearly didn't know what they were doing here, especially his turn from enraged, revenge driven man to joking and backslapping in no time at all. It's like, the super serum made him unstable....and then it didn't?
Him killing that guy with the shield made sense, he lost control after the terrorists kidnapped and killed his friend right in front of him. After that his fight with Bucky and Sam made sense, although again Bucky was seriously nerfed here. I mean are you telling me that Walker could push Bucky harder than Cap ? Other than that a pretty good fight scene with emotional stakes.
All in all 7/10.
3) Loki. While the other shows were a mixed bag this show was almost entirely ****.
First and worst, Loki himself. He goes from being a clever, calculating charming and dangerous villain in the films to being everyone's *****.
He spends the entire series running around after smarter, stronger characters - namely Sylvie, who's the real protagonist of the show. Loki is a side character in his own show.
Remember how Loki is super humanly strong and tough, yet human TVA agents can manhandle him? Or that he suddenly has magic powers that he never used in the films ? This is not good writing.
Alligator Loki has more agency than he does.
I feel like the writers mistook character destruction for character development.
Then there's the underlying premise, which makes everything that happened in the MCU films utterly meaningless. In fact even then all the stuff that happens in the show is pointless because Kang manipulated it all so that they would reach his office.
On the positive side, Classic Loki was awesome and Alligator Loki didn't take any crap.
I could go on about nearly every other aspect of this show, but I don't want to relive it so I'll sum it up by giving it a 1/10, mostly because it takes a huge steaming **** on everything that came before it.
The fact that so many people seem to enjoy Loki and are entertained by him running around like a clueless *******, except when he's having long pointless conversations, depresses me no end.
So I guess Falcon and Winter Soldier wins..
Loki was treated like ass in his own show. It seems the writers completely forgot he was Asgardian(I know Frost Giant parents but still)and made him a weak magician. He was getting beat one on one by regular people. He showed no super strength or planning, no fighting ability except as a brawler..............they just turned him into a normal person. He was so out of character the entire show! I'm going to end this here because I can write a graphic novel on this!!
It blows my mind that people can like this show, if they have seen any of Loki's MCU appearances.
But critics and fans seem to love it. Don't get me started on Kang - worst performance as a villain in the entire MCU. This guy is going to be the big bad going forward ? WTF ?
I love the MCU but just now sure about them going forward. Seems people are way more hyped about Disney plus shows like Moon Knight than they are about the movies of Shang Chi and Eternals. They really should have pushed F4 and X-men.Quite hard to choose between Loki and Wandavision. Falcon’s finale let the show down IMO, otherwise it was building up well too. Having such utterly boring and uncharismatic villains hamstrung it throughout too.
The shows will hopefully keep people excited and feel like a part of the MCU to the GA. Post-Endgame could have been a hard spot after the biggest event of all (especially with a bunch of the main heroes then exiting), and add on a pandemic and it has become harder to build momentum. But the F4 and X-Men are still coming and they will make big waves when they appear. In the meantime I hope all the released films are well liked by fans.I love the MCU but just now sure about them going forward. Seems people are way more hyped about Disney plus shows like Moon Knight than they are about the movies of Shang Chi and Eternals. They really should have pushed F4 and X-men.
I think that Loki hasn't really been in the movies since the first Thor movie.First and worst, Loki himself. He goes from being a clever, calculating charming and dangerous villain in the films to being everyone's *****.
I think that Loki hasn't really been in the movies since the first Thor movie.
You don't decide whose wrong or not.Okay, I'm going to dial back the sarcasm because that's not a nice way to talk to people. But I think its fair to say that your statement is demonstrably wrong (not something I say often)
Let's think back to the 2012 Avengers film for the evidence to support my view:
In that movie Loki enters and destroys a top secret Shield facility after stealing a powerful artifact.
He then mind controls a bunch of soldiers, including Hawkeye and a scientist, fights Cap one on one, rips out someone's eye to gain access to materials he needs, causes the Avengers to start turning on each other and the Hulk to go on a rampage inside the helicarrier, then he summons an alien army who blast the hell out of New York, he chucks Tony out of a Stark Tower window, before going one on one with Thor - and eventually he gets smashed by the Hulk. ( oh, and he was fast enough in that film to catch an arrow in flight).
So, in other words, he was a calculating, charming and dangerous villain.
That was the same guy who appeared in the Loki series - well until the start of Episode 1 and he loses his super strength and fighting skills and suddenly becomes everyone's *****, and has a good old cry.
So, if you have seen Avengers maybe you forgot about all that stuff, but if you haven't seen it you should check it out.
You don't decide whose wrong or not.
Loki's actions is him using the mind stone and orchestrating a plan, for someone else. His level of destruction and scheming is him using that stick, not something he can actually do. His army has nothing to do with him, but it's something he's given. Except maybe, how his fight with Cap goes. But I'm not arguing for power level, but as a character.
Nah. I thought his character went into psycho villainy, as a character, and I've felt that for some time, for years. Him throwing a tantrum and getting smashed, shows him to be a pitiful, whiny joke of a villain in that movie, to me.
I remember that I thought he was a far weaker character in the first Avengers than he was in Thor and that Whedon botched the character. I've watched in recent years and that perception hasn't really changed.
I think that Loki hasn't really been in the movies since the first Thor movie.
I don't think you demonstrated that. I still think my perception about Loki being a weak character and a moreso joke of a villain, than he was in Thor, works for me.I didn't decide you were wrong - I raised a bunch of facts that demonstrated that you were wrong.
Btw it's "who's " or "who is" whereas "whose" indicates possession, e.g whose shoes are those?
This might help: Whose vs. Who’s
It's a bit like if you said 2+2 = 6 at school.
After being shown factual evidence that 2 + 2 = 4, would you then tell your teacher that they didn't get to decide that you were wrong ?
And I pointed out how I think he isn't particularly that.And I pointed out a number of examples of Loki being a villain, and quite a threatening and clever one too, from the Avengers film, which takes place a year after the first Thor movie.
I'm not going to reiterate them all again ( like the eye ripping, or the murders, or fighting Thor in melee combat, or throwing Tony out window... oh wait, I did forget to mention how he tricked Thor into trapping himself in the Hulk jar before dropping him off the helicarrier and murdering Agent Colson.
I would argue that you attributing Loki's actions and agency to the mind stone/sceptre is a bit like saying Iron Man 's armour is the real hero.
Recently, someone has suggested that Loki was a good guy and the mind stone influenced him toward villainy- I think his actions in both Thor and Thor TDW show this to be unsupportable.
You also said:
"His army has nothing to do with him" I encourage you to think about the logical flaw with what you've written there. Do you mean " Thanos' army has nothing to do with Loki?" other than Loki bringing them to Earth in the first place and at least being nominally in charge.
A common convention in fictional narrative is the villain who works for a more powerful villain. The so called "big bad" often remains behind the scenes until an appropriately dramatic reveal.
This was a foundational element of the Infinity Saga. In a similar fashion, Ronan was the villain of GOTG vol 1, but was subordinate to Thanos.
AS such I don't think its arguable that Loki is not the villain of Avengers ( 2012).
True, he's subordinate to Thanos, but he still shows agency and motivations similar to those he displayed in the first Thor film. This is called consistency, and is indicative of good writing. The Loki show does away with all of that, plus Loki's super strength , reflexes ( remember how he caught the arrow) and fighting skills. That's indicative of bad writing.
Tell you what, the best way forward is for us to just politely disagree, and then we'll just move on.
I don't think you demonstrated that. I still think my perception about Loki being a weak character and a moreso joke of a villain, than he was in Thor, works for me.And I pointed out how I think he isn't particularly that.
Saying that him killing and all that makes him intimidating or a good villain, to me, is like saying the first order is intimidating, because they're more powerful than the resistance in the sequel trilogy. I think it doesn't work for either. Maliketh kills a lot of people in Thor The Dark World. That doesn't make him an intimidating or good villain, to me.
No. Tony built the Iron Man armor and is a heroic character. Loki was given a stick and an army by someone else. Nothing he built or earned, as a character, in story. What he does with it has nothing to do with what his personal abilities are, that I remember.
Thanos' army. It's not Loki's army. He didn't gain it through leadership tactics or something. I actually think Loki doesn't work as how he's written in Avengers, that I think Thanos seemed lame for it to happen that way, at the time.
Him being a flunky isn't really my issue, but that I think, as a villain, on his own, he's not a strong villain or character. I think Avengers is the the version of the character, I think works less, to me.
I thought Ronan sucked as well.
I think Loki is shown to have agency and motivations in the Loki show. The conflict between him and Sylvie at the end is based on him having his own motivations and agency.