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Welcome Class, to Room 666...Again

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Hello everyone what are we talking about so I may inject my fruitful yet controversial, at times witty, a opinion!:)
 
I see we are doing a little comparing of OT to NT... Something to note the god in both bibles are radically different. OT God is vengeful and wrathful. NT god is kind and forgiving:o
 
Originally posted by Movies205
Hello everyone what are we talking about so I may inject my fruitful yet controversial, at times witty, a opinion!:)

You need to get over yourself.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Movies205
I see we are doing a little comparing of OT to NT... Something to note the god in both bibles are radically different. OT God is vengeful and wrathful. NT god is kind and forgiving:o

says you! :D

which God said the following?

"Do I take any delight at all in the death of someone wicked, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, and not in that he should turn back from his ways and actually keep living?" OT

"Let the wicked man leave his way and the harmful man his thoughts and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him . . . and will forgive him in a large way." OT

"When you enemy falls, do not rejoice . . . that Jehovah may not see it and it be bad in His eyes and he certainly turn back His anger from against Him." OT

"it is righteousness on God's part to repay tribulation for those who make tribulation for you . . . at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire as he brings vengence upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news . . ." NT

"these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction . . ." NT

"it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" NT

"for our God is a consuming fire." NT

"But on the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed." NT

"You people must not affict any widow or fatherless boy. If you should affict him at all, then if he cries out to me at all, I shall unfailingly hear his outcry and my anger will indeed blaze (against you)." OT

"You must not yoke together an ass and a bull." (it would be a cruel to the donkey.) OT

"You must not reap the harvest of your land and you must not reap the edge of your field completely . . . for the afflicted one and the alien resident you should leave them." OT

"You must not hate your brother in your heart." OT

"You must not treat the lowly with partiality and you must not prefer the person of the great one. With justice you should judge your associate." OT


-----

God has not changed, movies. it is just when Jesus came to the earth, people could finally see what His Father was really like because Jesus reflected His Father's personality perfectly.

God is a God of Love, but it is in perfect balance with His other main attributes, justice, wisdom and power. He will not put up with hatred we have for one another on the earth forever.
 
Originally posted by Abaddon
You keep seeing it as a punishment,when really thats n

disease, poverty, cruelty, slaughter of innocents, pollution of land and soul, and death of loved one?

but you are right i think in this. they are not punishments by God. they are the result of our parents' decision to be independent of God.

God knew these things would happen if a&e disobeyed Him. that is why He warned them first of what would result.
 
Originally posted by Kessel Day
says you! :D

which God said the following?

"Do I take any delight at all in the death of someone wicked, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, and not in that he should turn back from his ways and actually keep living?" OT

"Let the wicked man leave his way and the harmful man his thoughts and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him . . . and will forgive him in a large way." OT

"When you enemy falls, do not rejoice . . . that Jehovah may not see it and it be bad in His eyes and he certainly turn back His anger from against Him." OT

"it is righteousness on God's part to repay tribulation for those who make tribulation for you . . . at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire as he brings vengence upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news . . ." NT

"these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction . . ." NT

"it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" NT

"for our God is a consuming fire." NT

"But on the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed." NT

"You people must not affict any widow or fatherless boy. If you should affict him at all, then if he cries out to me at all, I shall unfailingly hear his outcry and my anger will indeed blaze (against you)." OT

"You must not yoke together an ass and a bull." (it would be a cruel to the donkey.) OT

"You must not reap the harvest of your land and you must not reap the edge of your field completely . . . for the afflicted one and the alien resident you should leave them." OT

"You must not hate your brother in your heart." OT

"You must not treat the lowly with partiality and you must not prefer the person of the great one. With justice you should judge your associate." OT


-----

God has not changed, movies. it is just when Jesus came to the earth, people could finally see what His Father was really like because Jesus reflected His Father's personality perfectly.

God is a God of Love, but it is in perfect balance with His other main attributes, justice, wisdom and power. He will not put up with hatred we have for one another on the earth forever.

The same god who made his people wander 40 years in the desert for not listening to him:o
 
Originally posted by Movies205
The same god who made his people wander 40 years in the desert for not listening to him:o

it was not that they didn't listen to Him, movies.

this is the setting: the israelites have traveled across the desert after seeing the egyptian army (and their pharoah - the movies is wrong!!!) be drowned in the Red Sea. they have already seen many other miracles. they are poised to go into canaan to possess it but first they send in spies to scout it out.

10 of the spies give the report that the land is full of very large, warlike men so the israelites began to rebell and plan a return to egypt. they even planned to kill Moses & Aaron. (Num14:11)

so God said that since they did not trust Him, even after seeing all the wonderful things He had done on their behalf, they were not worthy of inheriting the land He promised to Abraham's children. those people who were 20 years and older, wandered 40 years through the wilderness until they all had died (except the two faithful spies, Joshua & Caleb, and of course, the Levites).
 
Originally posted by Movies205
The same god who made his people wander 40 years in the desert for not listening to him:o
As Bugs Bunny said...."I knew I shoulda made that left turn at Albequrque".
 
Spawn, I bet you don't know who's breaking that sucka's ankles

5825573_l.gif
 
Are you saying that the Spawn movie is better than the new Batman and Spider-Man films?
 
Spawn, i'd like to know about Samurai please. The basics. For instance the origin of, the history, stories about legendary Samurai, what it takes to be one, the Samurai code. **** like that, thanks.
 
A long, long, long time ago...I realized that peoples beliefs were also their opinions...aka, not true. i said to myself one day, that opinions are waste of time and therefore should not exist. My beliefs are no longer opinions....they are fact.
 
Origins Of The Samurai


By 200 AD, rice cultivation had been known on the islands east of the Asian continent for 500 years. With agriculture had come ownership of land where previously, boundaries between small nomadic hunting groups had been indistinct. People came to live together in communities, sharing in the work of planting and harvesting, and in defense against others who would take their winter stores. With the possession of land had come war.

The growth of farming drew people away from hunting and away from hunting skills. Some were naturally better suited to fighting then others and so honed those skills, becoming specialists at fighting. Those who fought became warriors, and by virtue of their strength, became the leaders of their clans. The wars they fought resulted in larger clans overcoming and absorbing smaller ones. Japanese society of the third century was composed of many clans, capable and willing to wage war for advantage. It would not be very long before they became one society.

By 200 AD, the Chinese Han court had received envoys from as many as 30 clans from northern Kyushu through their offices on the Korean peninsula. The ancestors of the Japanese had much more reason to look west than to the northern wilderness since the west held much to attract them in both materials and technology. Korean iron and weapons were particularly desirable. Shortly after the fall of the Han in 220 AD, Kyushu clans, capable and willing to wage war for advantage, attacked.

Warriors of this era fought on foot with bows, stabbing swords, and spears. Armor was worn, but most warriors probably had only shields. Steel and bronze had come to the Japanese islands with rice and so they knew of and used these materials. The more advanced technology and the better materials, however, were still from the continent.

By 300 AD the religious, political, and military consolidation of independent clans culminated with the Yamato clan becoming dominant. Included in the consolidation were clans on northern Kyushu and southern Honshu. The Yamato were in power because of the support of many clans rather than the surrender of those clans. The Yamato culturally consolidated early Japanese society; administratively, many local clans remained relatively independent. Archeological excavations show that mound tombs constructed in this time were all very similar and yet widely distributed. They demonstrate the cultural unity of the people, the independence of distributed clans, and the measure of their power over the lower classes. Yamato invasions of the Korean peninsula were frequent, leading even to the establishment a land-hold. The tip of the peninsula, called Mimana, long under the influence of the islanders, was established as their own domain and base for raids in the fourth century. From this presence, the flow of culture and technology was assured.

War with the continentals was not always a matched fight, however. Shortly after 400 AD, the enemy demonstrated that they had learned to fight from horseback. Up until that time, horses, though available, had not been ridden in war by the Yamato. Shooting an arrow from horseback required two hands. Until the invention of stirrups in China in the first century, falling off one's horse was a much more likely event than successfully launching a home hitting arrow. With stirrups providing two-sided support and a saddle to brace one's knees, a warrior could stand, use his feet to guide the horse, shoot arrows, and swing a sword. With the additional speed offered by a mount, foot soldiers could be easily surprised and devastated by many fewer men. The Yamato participated in politics and culture on the Korean peninsula directly. Alliances were made and war waged. Even marriages were arranged between courts. The Yamato and Paikche found a common enemy in the Silla and so allied against them. Paikche and Yamato, as allies, exchanged knowledge and material. Scribes arrived in Yamato almost immediately after contact. Buddhism arrived in 538. Swordsmiths, armorers, and horses all made their way to Yamato. By 600, one third of the Yamato court was composed of foreign immigrants brought to Yamato for their advanced knowledge and skills. In time, the developed skills of the Yamato made their products so desirable that the exchange reversed, and weapons and horses were exported back to the Paekche to aid in the fighting.

Foreign wars were not all that concerned the Yamato, however. Unity in the Yamato court was not the rule. Prior to the 6th century, the Great Lord was the religious and political leader of the nation. (The Yamato ruler had not yet been attributed with divine authority.) The position was hereditary, but without rules for ascension. Each Great Lord kept consorts in great numbers and so it was not always apparent who would reign next. Since power was involved, outside clans often tried to gain influence by marrying daughters to princes in the hope that a son-in-law prince would become Great Lord. To that end, clans would support their sons-in-law by murdering rivals or by waging war on other clans. One clan warrior was so thorough in killing off competitors, that when his chosen prince died shortly after taking office, a wide search found that the only hereditary choice remaining was a prince who had been in hiding and who was patronized by a rival clan.

War on the Korean peninsula eventually led to the expulsion of the Yamato from Mimana in 562. During the continental wars before and after their expulsion, the Yamato, having become skilled as mounted archers, were often called upon to help their allies. The warriors sent to the continent rode horses which were small, perhaps 40" at the shoulders. Armor for the horses was excluded so that they would be quick. Arrows were the weapon of choice. Swords were used from horseback, but most likely only after arrows had been depleted. Armor was therefor designed primarily to repel arrows.

In 663, with support from the Tang dynasty in China, Silla overwhelmed Yamato and Paekche forces in a deafening defeat. The Chinese had brought new tactics to the battlefield for directing mass peasant armies armed with crossbows. With this defeat, Silla went on to unify the peninsula. Yamato, now reeling with the likelihood of invasion from abroad, withdrew to defend itself.

Just as the Yamato began organizing for defense, difficulties at court took precedence over defense. The Great Lord died and in a subsequent civil war, the next leader, Temmu, took power by the military defeat of his brother.

Temmu became the first "Heavenly Warrior Emperor" of Japan. From the experience of losing to the Chinese and from fears of invasion, Temmu established laws to control the military strength of the nation. Having taken the throne by force, he knew especially well that military power meant ruling power. A peasant conscript army was established, with weapons being the possessions of the government. Conscripted service for border guards was required of all clan warriors for periods of three years. Horsemen were to train continuously, peasants 10 out of 100 days. Skills to be practiced included swinging swords, stabbing with spears, firing crossbows, and catapulting stones. "In a government, military matters are the essential thing." stated Temmu.

Temmu also knew the value of diplomacy. Several missions were sent to China, carefully avoiding the Korean peninsula. It was during their first direct contacts with the Tang dynasty that the Yamato first began referring to their islands as the "sun source" or "Nippon". The Chinese pronounced the same characters as "Jihpen". It is this sound which Marco Polo brought back to Europe in the thirteenth century.

The Kanto plain in central Honshu was ideal for raising horses, and perhaps from hunting and military engagements with northern barbarians or "Emishi", the Kanto warriors had long been known as the fiercest of Japan. Eventually, because of their greater skill, border guards came to be Kanto plain warriors almost exclusively. Some of the first written documents available from Japanese history are poems written by warriors about service as border guards:

From today
Without regard for myself
I set out
A shield strong but humble
For our Sovereign Lord.

In time, however, the threat from the continent diminished and raids from the Emishi became a more pressing concern. In the eighth century, conscripts and Kanto mounted warriors were sent to the north to bring the tribes under court control.

The Emishi were fast horsemen, however, and fought a guerrilla style war. Conscript armies were not effective and were often overwhelmed. The wars eventually stretched the financial limits of the government, and with a population decline due to smallpox and crop failures, armies came to consist only of mounted archers. Crossbows for the peasant armies proved too expensive. Also due to expense and to the rusting failure of iron armor, the government turned to leather armor. The benefit of light weight was an added attraction.

By the end of the eighth century, the Japanese warrior fighting in the northern extents of Honshu essentially fit the historical model of the classical Japanese warrior. By this time, the government had come to depend on the men of the Kanto to such an extent that courtiers no longer personally took up arms. The term "samurai", meaning "those who serve" came into use (although with derogatory meaning when used by pretentious courtiers). Warriors continued to fight on horseback, with bow and arrows as their primary weapon, but also with a newly designed sword. The Emishi had been found to be fighting with curved swords. These seemed much better suited to slicing cuts inflicted from horseback, and so the Japanese tachi, which had previously been modeled on the continental sword, was revised for the same effect.
 
Brief History of the Samurai
courtesy of Mark McGee
Japan has a history that dates back thousands of years. Scientists believe the Japanese people descended from many groups that migrated to the islands from other parts of Asia, including China and Korea. As early as 4500 B.C., the Japanese islands were inhabited by fishermen, hunters and farmers. The early culture was known as "Jomon," which meant "cord pattern." That's because the people made pottery decorated with rope-like designs. Scientists believe a caucasian race called the "Ainu" were the first inhabitants of what is now Japan. The Ainu still exist today, mostly in the northernmost islands of Japan called "Hokkaido." The next major Japanese cultural changed occured about 200 B.C. The people were known as "Yayoi." The Yayoi were mostly farmers. Scientists believe the present-day Japanese closely resemble the Yayoi in appearance and language.

War played a central part in the history of Japan. Warring clans controlled much of the country. A chief headed each clan; made up of related families. The chiefs were the ancestors of Japan's imperial family. The wars were usually about "land." Only 20% of the land was fit for farming. The struggle for control of that land eventually gave rise to the Samurai.

One of the important dates in the history of the Japanese warring class is 660 B.C. That's when, according to legend, Jimmu Tenno became head of a confederation of warlike clans. Tenno was known as "The Divine Warrior." He led his people from Kyushu to the Kinki region and conquered the people there. Tenno settled in the area of Yamato. This eventually gave rise to the Yamato dynasty and state. The leaders of Yamato believed themselves to be of divine origin.

The Yamato clans conducted many military campaigns on the Asian mainland. The targets included Korea and China. These campaigns led to the importation of Korean and Chinese culture, technology and martial arts.

Legend says that Emperor Keiko was the first person with the title of "Shogun." The word meant "Barbarian-subduing General." Legend continues that Keiko had a son named "Prince Yamato." He was cunning, fearless, strong and a great martial artist. Many believe that Yamato was a role model for future Samurai.

Ancient Yayoi warriors developed weapons, armour and a code during the ensuing centuries that became the centerpiece for the Japanese Samurai. Early weapons included bows, arrows and swords. Armour included a helmet that protected head and neck, a breasplate that protected the chest, arm and shoulder protectors, and a belly wrap. Later armour included protection for the legs and thighs. Armour changed as the type of battles changed. A big change occured in the 5th century when horses were introduced to Japan. Another change occured in the 15th century because of the constancy of war and the introduction of guns into battle. The code developed from the Chinese concept of the virtues of warriors doing battle to the Samurai code of chivalry known as Kyuba no michi ("The Way of Horse and Bow") to the Bushido ("Way of the Warrior") code.

"Bushido" means "Way of the Warrior." It was at the heart of the beliefs and conduct of the Samurai. The philosophy of Bushido is "freedom from fear." It meant that the Samurai transcended his fear of death. That gave him the peace and power to serve his master faithfully and loyally and die well if necessary. "Duty" is a primary philosophy of the Samurai.

The Samurai rose out of the continuing battles for land among three main clans: the Minamoto, the Fujiwara and the Taira. The Samurai eventually became a class unto themselves between the 9th and 12th centuries A.D. They were called by two names: Samurai (knights-retainers) and Bushi (warriors). Some of them were related to the ruling class. Others were hired men. They gave complete loyalty to their Daimyo (feudal landowners) and received land and position in return. Each Daimyo used his Samurai to protect his land and to expand his power and rights to more land.

The Samurai became expert in fighting from horseback and on the ground. They practiced armed and un-armed combat. The early Samurai emphasized fighting with the bow and arrow. They used swords for close-in fighting and beheading their enemies. Battles with the Mongols in the late 13th century led to a change in the Samurai's fighting style. They began to use their sword more and also made more use of spears and naginata. The Samurai slowly changed from fighting on horseback to fighting on foot.

The Samurai wore two swords (daisho). One was long; the other short. The long sword (daito - katana) was more than 24 inches. The short sword (shoto - wakizashi) was between 12 and 24 inches. The Samurai often gave names to their swords and believed it was the "soul" of their warriorship. The oldest swords were straight and had their early design in Korea and China. The Samurai's desire for tougher, sharper swords for battle gave rise to the curved blade we still have today. The sword had its beginning as iron combined with carbon. The swordsmith used fire, water, anvil and hammer to shape the world's best swords. After forging the blade, the sword polisher did his work to prepare the blade for the "furniture" that surrounded it. Next, the sword tester took the new blade and cut through the bodies of corpses or condemned criminals. They started by cutting through the small bones of the body and moved up to the large bones. Test results were often recorded on the nakago (the metal piece attaching the sword blade to the handle).



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Samurai Dates of Importance

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660 B.C. --- Legend says Jimmu Tenno became Japan's first emperor and set up the ruling Yamato State. Weapons and armour develop.

400's A.D. --- Horses introduced into Japanese fighting.

500's A.D. --- Buddhism arrived in Japan; becomes a powerful philosophy for rulers and warriors.

500's A.D. --- Soga clan dominated the Yamato court.

645 A.D. --- Taika Reforms began.

702 A.D. --- Taiho law codes established the Great Council of State.

710 A.D. --- Nara rule began with first permanent capital.

781 A.D. --- Emperor Kammu came to power and moved capital to Kyoto a few years later.

794 A.D. --- Heian period began.

858 A.D. --- Fujiwara family gained control of imperial court.

935 A.D. --- Taira Masakado revolted and proclaimed himself "The New Emperor." Other Samurai leaders exerted their influence across the land and changed the history of Japan.

1180-85 A.D. --- Minamoto Yoritomo takes up arms against the Taira clan in The Gempei War.

1192 A.D. --- Yoritomo became first permanent shogun of Japan and set up his Samurai government in Kamakura.

Late 1200's A.D. --- Mongols invade Japan. The Samurai defeat the Mongols after many years of fierce fighting. The Samurai developed a style of formation combat and depended more on the sword as a primary weapon in battle.

1318 A.D. --- Go-Daigo became the 96th Emperor of Japan. He attempted to overthrow the Hojo regents, but gave rise instead to a new dynasty of Shoguns, the Ashikaga family, who set up their government in the capital city of Kyoto.

1400'a A.D. --- Master swordsmen established schools to teach their style of ken-jutsu.

1467-77 A.D. --- The Onin War saw the decline of the Shogun's power and began the Sengoku Jidai ("The Age of the Country at War") which lasted 150 years.

1542 A.D. --- Portuguese guns were introduced into Japan.

1560 A.D. --- Oda Nobunaga began the process of unifying Japan. Toyotomi Hideyoshi continued the quest after Nobunaga's death.

1592 A.D. --- Hideyoshi invaded Korea on his way to invading China, but died in 1598 before succeeding.

1603 A.D. --- The Tokugawa family began ruling Japan. The regime lasted more than 200 years.

1605 A.D. --- Miyamoto Musashi, Japan's most famous Samurai, began his musha-shugyo (warrior pilgrimage). Musashi fought and won more than 60 sword fights before the age of 30. He founded the Individual School of Two Skies and taught for many years. At the age of 60, Musashi wrote Gorin No Sho ("The Book of Five Spheres"), the most famous writing about the Japanese Sword Arts. He also wrote "The 35 Articles on the Art of Swordsmanship."

1615 A.D. --- Tokugawa Ieyasu drew up the "Buke Sho Hatto" (Rules for Martial Families) before his death. It gave Samurai 13 guides to living as a warrior during peace time.

1630 A.D. --- Japan cut its ties with the outside world.

1854 A.D. --- Commodore Matthew Perry opened trade between the United States and Japan.

1867 A.D. --- Emperor Mutsuhito regained his traditional powers and took the name Meiji. It was the beginning of the Meiji Restoration. Meiji (Mutsuhito) set up his new capital city in Edo (Tokyo).

1868 A.D. --- Emperor Meiji introduced the "Five Articles Oath" which began the dismantling of the Samurai class.

1873 A.D. --- Emperor Meiji established an army based on conscription; an army open to anyone.

1876 A.D. --- Emperor Meiji declared a new law that ended the wearing of swords. The Samurai had lost their profession and their right to wear swords. Their position as a special class ended after almost 1,000 years.


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Samurai Terms

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Batto-jutsu

A sword-drawing art that includes cutting rolled straw targets

Bo-jutsu

Staff fighting

Budo

Martial or Fighting Arts

Bushido

The Way of the Warrior

Chokuto

Straight sword used in Japan's early history

Daimyo

Feudal landowner

Daisho

Samurai's two swords (one long - katana, one short - wakizashi)

Edo Period

1600 - 1867 when Tokugawa government ruled Japan
Giri

Samurai's duty

Gunpai

War fan

Hakama

Divided skirt-pants Samurai wore

Heian Period

782 - 1184 when Japan's capital was located in Kyoto

Iai-jutsu

Art of Drawing the Sword

Kamakura Period

1185 - 1332 when the capital of Japan was in Kamakura. Known as the "golden age" of the Japanese sword.

Kampaku

Regent

Katana

Long sword

Ken

Sword - refers specifically to an ancient, two-edge sword made before the ninth century

Ken-jutsu

Art of the Sword

Koto

Swords made before the Edo Period

Kyo-jutsu

Bow and arror fighting

Kyuba no michi

The Way of the Horse and Bow

Kyu-jutsu

Japanese archery

Mei

Name of a sword

Momoyana Period

1573 - 1599 when Samurai began wearing daisho. Also beginning of the Shinto (new sword) period.

Mon

Family crest worn on montsuki

Montsuki

Kimono top Japanese wore at formal occasions

Muramasa

Sword maker

Muromachi Period

1392 - 1572 when constant civil wars greatly increased the production of swords.

Musha-shugyo

Warrior pilgrimage

Naginata

Long pole with curved blade on one end

Naginata-jutsu

Way of the Naginata

Nambokucho Period

1333 - 1391 when two emperors were vying for power in Japan

No-dachi

Long sword

Ronin

Master-less Samurai

Ryu

Particular school or style of martial arts

Samurai

Member of the warrior class

Sensei

Teacher

Seppuku

Ritual suicide

Shin Shinto

"New New Sword" - any sword made after Meiji Restoration (1870)

Shinto

"New Sword" - any sword made between 1596 and 1870

Shogun

Barbarian subduing General (war lord)

So-jutsu

Spear fighting

Sohei

Warrior monks

Tachi

Long, deeply curved sword that mounted Samurai used in ancient Japan

Uchigatana

"Inside sword" - a term for the longer of two swords Samurai wore

Wakizashi

Short sword

Zanshin

Samurai's sensing danger
 
You honestly think I'd get shaken and stirred like that Kingpin? You must still think white man can't jump.
 
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