What are your thoughts on Feminist Gamers?

[TheLastBlade]

Guys, again, I have NOTHING against Girl Gamers...... Well,except the ones that did that female manifesto garbage.... Seriously, there's a reason why even girl gamers are offended by that video.

 

[TheLastBlade]

Oh and more salt to the wound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek

By a GIRL GAMER no less..... Oh and by the way, it's also another video that doesn't demoralize Anita, just disagreements.

 

[Soapy]

Please edit your posts instead of bumping.

 

[Brother Jack]

I haven't really checked out any opinions from "feminist" sources or ones disagreeing with that stance. But misogyny and sexism are big, prevalent issues in the video game industry, as they are in pretty much every entertainment industry. They should be stopped.

 

[TheLastBlade]

I haven't really checked out any opinions from "feminist" sources or ones disagreeing with that stance. But misogyny and sexism are big, prevalent issues in the video game industry, as they are in pretty much every entertainment industry. They should be stopped.

I'm sure that is a legitimate complaint. That and there's also bad business practices, hollywood decisions, blaming the fans for everything wrong with video game series, and etc. That's one of them, but I would imagine that it's a big deal.

And I would say that sexism should stop in all accounts, not just females. If feminists complain about their roles in video games and what not over males, then that's what actually adds to sexism.

 

[Lord]

I'm not sure if there's actually positive Feminists. Maybe there is, but I wouldn't go to Feminist Frequency for such sources. They complain about stuff like legos.

Apparently, complaining about stuff that targets a certain demographic means the same thing as the increase of violence. I can understand SOME complaints, but complaints like bows, skirts, and girlish appearance in games that needs consistent designs for lighter series is one of the dumbest complaints I ever heard.

Perhaps that over sexualized female characters are a problem. But then again, so are male characters with killer abs and the only distinct character trait is spewing stupid one liners. Difference? One team is complaining about it more.

Once again you're seeing it wrong, and ignoring things explained in Female Frequency, something i notice in most response vídeos. Male protagonists with abs are usually there as part of the male player's fantasy on how they want to be like, while the women are usually there as objects of of the man's fantasy, as what they wish to have.

Guys, again, I have NOTHING against Girl Gamers...... Well,except the ones that did that female manifesto garbage.... Seriously, there's a reason why even girl gamers are offended by that video.

No they're not, you're talking about game players in general, maybe some did (for some weird reason), but nope, most of the people that "hate" Female frequency just insult her for even wanting to bring up those subjects and talk about them.

Oh and more salt to the wound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek

By a GIRL GAMER no less..... Oh and by the way, it's also another video that doesn't demoralize Anita, just disagreements.

And like with other response vídeos she starts by ignoring what Anita said, the thing is that the intentions aren't allways what matters, what matters is what is indeed presented, what stays in people's minds, and what does is a female character in peril being rescued by the male one.

No offense, but i'm finding it disgusting the way you hate Female Frequency so much for disagreeing with her, expecially somebody who has received so many insults and death threats, doesn't need any more of that, expecially when she's discussing something like this that actually needed to be brought to light more.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Guys and Ladies, don't bother arguing with him. It is clear by this point that he is either a troll, in which case we only feed him, or the very example of what feminists are rightly criticising, in which case there can be little done if TheLastBlade continues to resist any and all logical argument.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

It's probably a phase with him...it'll pass by the time he's 15 or older

 

[cherokeesam]

It's probably a phase with him...it'll pass by the time he's 15 or older

Maybe he'll actually have a girlfriend by then and be able to see things in a whole new perspective.

 

[SuperFerret]

"It's video games" is not an excuse.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Are there any studies that prove the vast majority of female characters in video games are helpless or objectified or are we only focusing on the misogynistic cases while ignoring the respectful ones?

 

[Lord]

DO we need actual studies? Female Frequency suddenly suffered this backlash because people aren't accostumed to discussing these things, most cases talk a little about the respectful cases too, but those are few and in between.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

DO we need actual studies? Female Frequency suddenly suffered this backlash because people aren't accostumed to discussing these things, most cases talk a little about the respectful cases too, but those are few and in between.

Yeah a study would be tangible evidence of a genuine problem.

For example if 85 percent of female characters were objectified or if 75 percent were helpless then you could demand major changes.

You can't really make such demands without solid data.

 

[SuperFerret]

You can because you don't need solid data in these sorts of cases. With this sort of medium, exposure matters more than quantity. So even if there's a ton of respectful cases, the fact that the major franchises have the problem tilts the scale towards the bad side.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You can because you don't need solid data in these sorts of cases. With this sort of medium, exposure matters more than quantity. So even if there's a ton of respectful cases, the fact that the major franchises have the problem tilts the scale towards the bad side.

Well than take popularity into account when doing the study.

For example Last of Us didn't objectify the female protagonist and it could be argued that protecting her in a fatherly way is healthy for men/boys to experience.

But a game like GTA5 has women being annoying nags or sexual playthings sold 9 times as many copies.

So the question becomes "are games with misogyny more popular because of sexism or in spite of it".

Either way adding actual proven data to the argument never hurts.

 

[TheLastBlade]

Once again you're seeing it wrong, and ignoring things explained in Female Frequency, something i notice in most response vídeos. Male protagonists with abs are usually there as part of the male player's fantasy on how they want to be like, while the women are usually there as objects of of the man's fantasy, as what they wish to have.

No they're not, you're talking about game players in general, maybe some did (for some weird reason), but nope, most of the people that "hate" Female frequency just insult her for even wanting to bring up those subjects and talk about them.

And like with other response vídeos she starts by ignoring what Anita said, the thing is that the intentions aren't allways what matters, what matters is what is indeed presented, what stays in people's minds, and what does is a female character in peril being rescued by the male one.

No offense, but i'm finding it disgusting the way you hate Female Frequency so much for disagreeing with her, expecially somebody who has received so many insults and death threats, doesn't need any more of that, expecially when she's discussing something like this that actually needed to be brought to light more.

I'm not sure if there are games like that, but saying that as statement implies that all the games that feminist frequency showed as an example is true. Example, the shower scene that demeans a woman isn't actually just her. There are children that has to go through that too to "disinfect" them. Anita is taking footage of games and making them more situational than they actually are.

I'm actually talking about that Gamer Girl Manifesto (finally got that name right).... Which was pretty annoying. For those who have no idea what it is, it's basically girl gamers talking about their gaming rights.... Which is listing a billion cliches and cases that doesn't help their cause.

What? The point of those videos are to state why Anita's points are so situational and one-sided. I assume you didn't pay attention to what happens to the games. The cause DOES matter. Characters like Peach and Zelda are princesses with authority. There is nothing in the games to demean them. In fact, their kingdom would be screwed without them!

Well I'm not one of them, am I? Maybe she shouldn't have posted her facts on 4chan (yes, she was aware what 4chan is and what they're all about). And it's called CRITICISM in videos that state false info on games she presents.

 

[TheLastBlade]

Guys and Ladies, don't bother arguing with him. It is clear by this point that he is either a troll, in which case we only feed him, or the very example of what feminists are rightly criticising, in which case there can be little done if TheLastBlade continues to resist any and all logical argument.

Yeah, because stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCsfXkbzRI4

Is trolling...

 

[TheLastBlade]

"It's video games" is not an excuse.

Perhaps not, especially when Capcom is making quite racist characters. Perhaps I'm more angry at Feminist Frequency than Feminists or Girl Gamers that tries to stereotype themselves.

However, I cannot get behind Anita's views. I can post a billion videos on why her information is at least a little flawed, and still be in the wrong.

She's getting death threats and being a victim of bullying? She also never played the games she says she did, posting on 4chan AND being aware on what it is, taking footage of games that only tries to prove her point, many statements of being "man's fault" for protecting their loved ones, dismissing legitimate criticisms and having to ban/remove comments and users from her youtube, facebook, and etc., and apparently blaming a demographic in which something is advertised to.

Are there sexism in video games? If Namco's SoulCalibur V advertisement proved, then yes, perhaps there is. It's just isn't everywhere or as over the top as what Anita said.

Thanks guys, I finally realized what I'm pissed off of. Not feminists or Girl Gamers that doesn't help their cause, but feminist frequency and it's host.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Are there any studies that prove the vast majority of female characters in video games are helpless or objectified or are we only focusing on the misogynistic cases while ignoring the respectful ones?

Perhaps the fact that we'd be hard pressed to mention say...ten female character in videogames that aren't just there to be rescued, to throw stuff at you or just wall decorations.

In my opinion, the real argument is not that most of the female characters in videogames are helpless or objectified or whathaveyou...but rather, to have MORE strong female characters like the recent TOMB RAIDER game, or REMEMBER ME or the ladies from RES EVIL series.

And what's the harm in wanting more strong female characters? it could only benefits the industry and us as gamers.

That's what the female gamers are actually saying, they want more like that...not that they're just complaining about the state of female characters in games per se. But that bit from the argument got lost in the shuffle , because of knee jerk reactions from gamers like the OP

 

[Oscorp]

I love when there are strong female characters like Lara Croft and Ellie. It feels fresh and more interesting. I'm getting pretty sick of female characters reduced to passive, virtual sex objects. Games where an enhanced armor is a metal bikini feel embarassing. Or games like DoA.

Of course, Classic things such as Mario saving the princess shouldn't be erased just like that. But in games overall I'd like to see more examples where the woman saves the man.

MJ in the Spider-Man comics have always (or at least mostly in the comics I've read or read about) been a strong, independent woman (who even beat up Chameleon among other things). I want to see that reflected in a Spider-Man game. I want MJ in a game to be a character of real importance. Not there simply just to have Spidey resque her, or call him for dates. I want to really feel that Peter needs her. Not only as a support, but as a compliment. That she doesn't always need Peter to save her, and that Peter needs her to save him at times as well.

Instead we have her whine at Peter and be there for triangular drama (Movie games, which is obviously the films' fault). Or we have her in "save her!" situations, like in Edge of Time. Seeing as MJ is one of my favourite CB characters, that feels unfortunate to say the least.

I might have gone a bit OT now, but I'm just giving an example.

 

[TheLastBlade]

I don't think it's too huge of an issue to include stronger female roles. If people complain about it, then there's clearly an audience. Plus, I think I'm more annoyed by both stereotypes of appearance than just women. Doesn't help that the majority of fighting games are doing it.

There has been stronger female roles. Didn't have to be about her saving the man. Nothing wrong with doing that either, it's just also nice to not play it out just for the sake of it.

Well, it's just unfortunate that Marvel seems to hate Spiderman and MJ a lot recently. Ranges from reduced roles to B******* storylines.

I like your example.

 

[Lord]

I think that enough has been said against the vídeos you've spent, and i wonder why so much hate for Anita. I think thse are great coments that were in the vídeo you've just sent:

I wholeheartedly disagree with you, I am afraid, MrRepzion. Normally I agree with the things you say on various topics, but this time I feel you and so many other YouTubers have somehow taken some kind of personal offence at Anita's videos which is blinding you to the fact that the things she talks about are totally true. It's slowly getting better in the gaming world, but that doesn't negate anything she says in her videos. The trope IS overused and ridiculous, and if men were constantly bombarded with media that says their gender is weak and merely a plot device instead of a real person, then maybe you might be able to get your blinders off.

Of COURSE that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. Of course there are women in games out there that are well-defined and have depth. But take a look around. Movies, TV and games spilleth over with tropes that relegate women to passive roles to drive a male plot. Can we just as a society think of something different? Why can't we just move on instead of revisiting the same thing constantly?

I saw Anita's videos as a call to action for game makers to start innovating instead of being lazy. And that starts with finding a fresh plot instead of falling back on the same tired **** from years gone by.

Really THAT's what offends you? Her intellectual laziness? That's not the sort of thing "offends" a mentally balanced person. It may lead you to disregard her and forget even watching her video five minutes later. But yeah, I don't think that is what offends you.

Personally I would have forgotten her trivial, trite, (and equally unoffensive) commentary within minutes, but then I saw the cascade of videos of people crapping in their pants in fear of her. It is hilarious and sad at the same time that these videos contribute much more to her fame than anything she could have produced.

Jimothy Schmidt
Há 5 dias (editado)




I always see these outraged comments using all this rhetoric about how her videos are "unresearched" and how she's a "fraud". I see arguments about how she's not really a gamer and all these questions over where her kickstarter money went. But when it comes down to her actual argument (that it is problematic for games to overrepresent women in roles where they lack agency) I see nothing to contradict her. Yeah, I get it. People are angry that she criticized their games. But the few arguments that even bother to address her main argument are insubstantial. Particularly arguments along the lines of "But you have to look at the context" which make the assumption that this plot device cannot be problematic just so long as the game developer presents it in a way that makes sense within the game's own fictional framework. (like we see all throughout this video. The argument at 13:45 is particularly lol-worthy)

You're studying "Medieval Times"? You mean chain-restaurant because most academics would referring to the study of Medieval History as such. Are you writing your thesis on Dante's Divine Comedy, that book that is required reading for most college and even high school students? Have you discovered something new that wasn't covered in Cliff-Notes, about how feminism is the Tenth Circle of Hell perhaps? You're not proving anything about your credentials, anyone in an undergrad degree is an "academic" and I suspect you are no further than that.

Your offense at Anita's research seems not to be sourced from her apparent lack of skill but more from your personal offense in what she is researching, you see her as undermining video games themselves as if she wants to corrupt it with feminism, forcing you to play and perhaps enjoy games with less sexist female characters.

You're relying on an argument that Anita specifically addresses in her videos: You're saying that the fact that the game explains the damsel scenario in a way that makes sense within the game's own fiction excuses the trope from being problematic. RE4 is one of my favorite games (I was playing it today actually) but I think we can all see that Ashley Graham is not the most positive portrayal of a woman. And her gender wasn't a toss up either. Capcom wasn't debating whether Leon should go save a male or female child of the president. The fact that she's a woman who needed to be saved is a major part of the game's storyline. It's a classic case of a weak helpless woman whose survival depends solely on the actions of a male hero.

 

[TheLastBlade]

There's also comments that goes with responses against Anita. Seriously, if you want to play using people's opinions battle, then it'll be hideously long. Especially when using people's comments on youtube.

Again, there is nothing wrong with stronger female roles. But there's also nothing wrong with playing Damsels in Distress either. It's not all because of playing the roles of possessions. Games like Mario and Zelda don't do this. It's a running gag yes, but it's not demeaning them either. And again, I'm not sure if there are games like that, but writing off the Damsel in Distress stereotype as something negative and lumping it as "women being possessions" is not entirely true.

One problem that I stated I have with Anita is that she is LITERALLY taking game footage out of context and making them demeaning towards women. I am not kidding. Said cases were during the time where men and children were killed, but apparently, when a women gets killed that's suddenly sexist.

If there's gonna be a discussion about negative damsels in distress, then make it one that actually does treat them in a negative way (don't try that fat princess garbage on me; if there's parodies everywhere, then there's parodies in video games). Maybe then I'll get behind it.

 

[Oscorp]

Even though I don't agree with you TLB, I must say that there are annoying aspects of some feminists in general, and that's the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality and that some feminists clearly don't strive for equality. So I can see where some of your frustration is coming from. But I don't see that in the criticism against games. Gaming right now is pretty sexist much like films still are.

 

[TheLastBlade]

And I can see why people can see stuff like films, video games, and the media can be sexist. But can it at least be ones that isn't being taken apart to look like something negative?

Another problem with using a argument like Damsels in Distress is that the games being used is using specific footage of games that deals with other stuff that doesn't mean it's sexist.

Examples:

Resident Evil 4: Ashely was kidnapped because she is planned to be used as a scapegoat for bio-terroism. Was she annoying? Yes. But one can't deny the seriousness of the setting she is at. Which at the same time is using men and women as monsters, no less.

Darkness: The fact that the main character tries to save his loved one and fails doesn't mean the role of possession.... I don't know why there's an argument like that.

Dante's Inferno: Not only is Dante's lover killed, but also many other innocent people. And yet, somehow, it's offensive because it's a women.... Right.