What are your thoughts on Feminist Gamers?

[Lord]

Problem is that the tropes are still there, no matter how much the plot of the games try to explain them and say they're not being sexist, they're still rellying on these old fashioned tropes

 

[TheLastBlade]

Problem is that the tropes are still there, no matter how much the plot of the games try to explain them and say they're not being sexist, they're still rellying on these old fashioned tropes

And why is that wrong? Not all games that does that put it in a negative spin. If it's something that makes it negative, then I think you'd be on to something. But treating the trope as entirely negative is like saying we could do without history books.

Should there be more active females? Yes. But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a take on something classic anymore.

In fact, while people treat the damsel in distress trope as something negative, there can be games that gives the player a reason to save said damsel. And it can also be simple as the Mario series with having no plot.

 

[Oscorp]

A problem with the damsel in distress thing is that it takes for granted that the gamer is a male. The gamer being the "Prince" and the goal being the "Princess". For a girl, I can imagine it can be hard to identify with such games. You can tell that the vast majority of games are created with only men (or boys) in mind.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

There's also comments that goes with responses against Anita. Seriously, if you want to play using people's opinions battle, then it'll be hideously long. Especially when using people's comments on youtube.

Again, there is nothing wrong with stronger female roles. But there's also nothing wrong with playing Damsels in Distress either. It's not all because of playing the roles of possessions. Games like Mario and Zelda don't do this. It's a running gag yes, but it's not demeaning them either. And again, I'm not sure if there are games like that, but writing off the Damsel in Distress stereotype as something negative and lumping it as "women being possessions" is not entirely true.

One problem that I stated I have with Anita is that she is LITERALLY taking game footage out of context and making them demeaning towards women. I am not kidding. Said cases were during the time where men and children were killed, but apparently, when a women gets killed that's suddenly sexist.

If there's gonna be a discussion about negative damsels in distress, then make it one that actually does treat them in a negative way (don't try that fat princess garbage on me; if there's parodies everywhere, then there's parodies in video games). Maybe then I'll get behind it.

I agree with this.

When a hero goes on a grand and dangerous adventure it suggest that the woman is worth all that risk and trouble.

In an age where chivalry (white knighting) is laughed at is this really a bad message?

Chivalry puts women on a pedestal and there's nothing wrong with it. Men who attack chivalry often do it to justify mistreating women physically and socially.

It seems to me women need to choose to be treated better than men or worse. Because the male population seems to be divided into men who elevate women and those who see them as lesser beings.

At least that becomes the dichotomy when a woman is being mistreated. You're treated like a sucker for helping her by the male cynics who think women should be taken off the pedestal.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Actually, chivalry is pretty damn sexist. But hey, I think we're a naturally sexist species.

 

[TheLastBlade]

^If fighting games are proof of anything :P

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Actually, chivalry is pretty damn sexist. But hey, I think we're a naturally sexist species.

Chivalry is better than the alternative.

Whenever men make an effort to treat a woman like a man they usually end up treating them worse.

I now know why chivalry was invented. To compensate for a man's natural tendency to push women beneath them.

 

[Thundercrack85]

So... polite inequality is better than false equality?

 

[Oscorp]

I agree with this.

When a hero goes on a grand and dangerous adventure it suggest that the woman is worth all that risk and trouble.

In an age where chivalry (white knighting) is laughed at is this really a bad message?

Chivalry puts women on a pedestal and there's nothing wrong with it. Men who attack chivalry often do it to justify mistreating women physically and socially.

It seems to me women need to choose to be treated better than men or worse. Because the male population seems to be divided into men who elevate women and those who see them as lesser beings.

At least that becomes the dichotomy when a woman is being mistreated. You're treated like a sucker for helping her by the male cynics who think women should be taken off the pedestal.

It cements women as passive and in essential need of a man to survive and thus makes them look weak.

And I may sound like a male cynic, but women shouldn't be on a pedestal.

I'm not a feminist and I really don't like radical feminists, but when it comes to the Point of gaming, I can hear where some feminists are coming from.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The word feminist has kind of become a dirty word thanks to radical second wave feminists and... well, third wave feminists period.

Still, I don't think the original concept is bad at all.

Video games have a fairly serious women problem though.

 

[Oscorp]

The word feminist has kind of become a dirty word thanks to radical second wave feminists and... well, third wave feminists period.

Still, I don't think the original concept is bad at all.

Video games have a fairly serious women problem though.

Yeah, this!

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So... polite inequality is better than false equality?

Yes, the former ensures women are treated respectfully while the latter is mostly used to justify unnecessary harsh treatment of women.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Blatant sexism. That's kind of refreshing, what with all the eggshell walking men do these days.

So you don't believe the sexes are equal?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It cements women as passive and in essential need of a man to survive and thus makes them look weak.

And I may sound like a male cynic, but women shouldn't be on a pedestal.

I'm not a feminist and I really don't like radical feminists, but when it comes to the Point of gaming, I can hear where some feminists are coming from.

You're not acknowledging why Mario is rescuing the princess and what he's willing to do to achieve it.

Mario wants to be worthy of the princess. He's a desperate suitor trying to win her love.

and he's willing to risk life and limb to accomplish this over and over and over again.

That is not at all an insult towards women any more than a P.O.W. needing to be rescued at great expense is an insult to P.O.W.s.

and women should be put on a pedestal. When they aren't men tend to abuse the idea that the woman should suffer the same misery and indignation as any man. Things get ugly.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Blatant sexism. That's kind of refreshing, what with all the eggshell walking men do these days.

So you don't believe the sexes are equal?

I believe in equal pay and equal protection under the law.

But women need to be perceived as deserving of more compassion, mercy and dignity than the average men. Why? Because without such social goals women end up being treated with less compassion, less mercy, and less dignity than they would with chivalry.

The world is a cold place. There's no reason it should be equally cold for both genders.

 

[TheLastBlade]

It could be said that it's life. I'm not exactly good with this stuff, but there could be inverse statements that females can be as evil as males.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Of that I have little doubt. Women just rarely get the chance.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I believe in equal pay and equal protection under the law.

But women need to be perceived as deserving of more compassion, mercy and dignity than the average men. Why? Because without such social goals women end up being treated with less compassion, less mercy, and less dignity than they would with chivalry.

The world is a cold place. There's no reason it should be equally cold for both genders.

I don't think that's necessarily all that helpful. I suppose it's sort of a chicken egg thing. Men treat women like they're weak, and they become convinced they're weak.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It could be said that it's life. I'm not exactly good with this stuff, but there could be inverse statements that females can be as evil as males.

I don't believe women are collectively and equally as destructive, violent, or abusive as men.

I'm not saying that women are completely innocent angels but they are different from men in most cases with a drive to be nurturing, sensitive and caring. They shouldn't be treated the same as men who lack that drive and who pride themselves on being incredibly crude and tough. That doesn't make sense to me.

You shouldn't treat men like they're women or vice versa.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I don't think they are either. But they are probably still quite destructive. I think you have an overly idealistic view of women.

Still we men have violence down to an art form.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't think that's necessarily all that helpful. I suppose it's sort of a chicken egg thing. Men treat women like they're weak, and they become convinced they're weak.

But why does everyone have to be treated as if they're overly tough?

It makes for a tougher and less friendly environment for everyone.

At least treat half of people like they're overly sensitive. It makes for a kinder and gentler reality for half the population whether they are sensitive or not.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Who said overly tough?

If you treat an entire group of people like they're helpless, they're going to become helpless.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't think they are either. But they are probably still quite destructive. I think you have an overly idealistic view of women.

Still we men have violence down to an art form.

How often are their stabbing or rape in female prison when compared to men's prison?

Even when the most evil women are isolated from men into their own controlled environment they are far less violent and abusive.

Why? It's not their nature.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Rape is quite common in female American prisons.

But I concede the point that women are less violent than men.

Still, that hardly makes them harmless.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Who said overly tough?

If you treat an entire group of people like they're helpless, they're going to become helpless.

I think women can be independent/self-reliant while accepting acts of chivalry which are usually nothing more than courtesy.

The two aren't opposing values unless you take them to extreme levels.