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Superman Returns What could have made Superman Returns better

As I'm sure I've said before, Brandon Routh didn't mimic Reeve. He vaguely looks like him, and he repeated some of his lines. Beyond that, I don't see it. If he had and done it successfully, I might have enjoyed the movie more, but as it is, he was too damn quiet, and didn't deliver his lines with near the confidence and authority Reeve did.
 
As I'm sure I've said before, Brandon Routh didn't mimic Reeve. He vaguely looks like him, and he repeated some of his lines. Beyond that, I don't see it. If he had and done it successfully, I might have enjoyed the movie more, but as it is, he was too damn quiet, and didn't deliver his lines with near the confidence and authority Reeve did.

Agreed.
 
As I'm sure I've said before, Brandon Routh didn't mimic Reeve. He vaguely looks like him, and he repeated some of his lines. Beyond that, I don't see it. If he had and done it successfully, I might have enjoyed the movie more, but as it is, he was too damn quiet, and didn't deliver his lines with near the confidence and authority Reeve did.
I have to disagree with you on that. Sure, Reeve delivered the lines in a more humorous way, but that's the thing when you're making a film in the line of another. People are always comparing to the 'other' actor, how he did it. I think if you want to enjoy this film, you may want to separate yourself from the way Christopher Reeve did it. These two actors are completely different. While in the first Superman films Reeve sometimes portrayed Superman almost a caricature, Brandon Routh was more serious. Reeve made Superman human with humour, Routh did it with human emotions. Superman, in my opinion, is supposed to be a strong silent type, does not show his emotions in public. Routh did it exceptionally well, if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Reeve as Superman, but sometimes it seemed like he was trying to be a little bit too funny. The way a film is received does not just depend on how the actors play the part. The story has a lot to do with it too. And if Superman Returns was a bad film, and I don't think it wasn't nearly as bad (I liked it!) as some people say, it was because of the story, not because of the actors. Because they did the best they could and I thought, and still think, Routh is/was a good Superman. He may have been even better than Reeve was. Not to put down Reeve, of course.

Sure there were some plot holes and not everything was well thought true, but I think the ideas were refreshing. And there's enough in it for a sequel, that I know isn't coming now or ever. I'm still a bit miffed about how it's considered a failure.
 
Superman doesn't show his emotions in public? Since when is that a criteria for the character?
 
I agree. Batman is the one who doesn't show his emotions in public. Superman isn't closed off like that. He smiles, he makes jokes, he gives press conferences, he doesn't wear a mask so he can be seen as a public figure instead of a masked man of mystery.

I think if you want to enjoy this film, you may want to separate yourself from the way Christopher Reeve did it.
That's not easy. The film keeps invoking the Reeve movies, deliberately, explicitly, and frequently. I would love to take Routh's performance on its own, but the film is so reliant on the Reeve films for nostalgia that it's hard to focus on that. There's also the fact that Routh really doesn't have much to work with; he has very little dialogue, probably less than Lois or Lex, and he spends scene after scene hanging out in the background while other people move the plot along. I could concede that Routh didn't play the role like Reeve did, but he didn't really make the role his own either.
 
Another thing though. I'm open to different interpretations, but I very much prefer Reeve's to Routh's. I didn't dislike his performance just because he didn't act like Reeve, but because he wasn't that good.
 
I meant to say; He doesn't show certain emotions in public. Smiling, joking and all that jazz, okay, but the more brooding/negative type of emotions.

Oh well, what's done is done. At least we fanfiction writers can put our heart and soul in writing sequels and what-ifs... Hehehe
 
As I'm sure I've said before, Brandon Routh didn't mimic Reeve. He vaguely looks like him, and he repeated some of his lines. Beyond that, I don't see it. If he had and done it successfully, I might have enjoyed the movie more, but as it is, he was too damn quiet, and didn't deliver his lines with near the confidence and authority Reeve did.


I swear man you took the words straight out of my mouth, exactly my feelings on Routh & SR.


Especially Routh's "Flying is still the safest way to travel" line, Routh came across so scripted compared to how sporadic and natural Reeve came with it. And as cheesy as this sounds, I felt like I was watching a scripted movie when Routh said it, as apposed to feeling as if I was watching an actual real Superman when Reeve said it. There was no hint of "Fake" in Reeve's delivery.
 
I swear man you took the words straight out of my mouth, exactly my feelings on Routh & SR.


Especially Routh's "Flying is still the safest way to travel" line, Routh came across so scripted compared to how sporadic and natural Reeve came with it. And as cheesy as this sounds, I felt like I was watching a scripted movie when Routh said it, as apposed to feeling as if I was watching an actual real Superman when Reeve said it. There was no hint of "Fake" in Reeve's delivery.

I've said that numerous times. As I sat there in the movie theater, I was getting very confused on if I was watching Superman in 1978 or Superman in 2006. Same one liners and everything.

Maybe Routh's "line" sounded fake because: WE'VE SEEN IT SCRIPTED BEFORE! Of course Routh is going to come off as a knockoff and less enthusiastic as Reeve because it was REEVE'S line and Reeve's line to own the first time around, decades ago.

Routh had no substance because he stepped into the Donner-verse and was asked to play Christopher Reeve's Superman. Obviously, it didn't work because of what's mentioned above.

It came off as the same 'ol, same 'ol. Nothing fresh, nothing new & nothing inspiring like the first film. You simply can't recreate magic, especially like an iconic character like Superman played by the iconic Christopher Reeve.

This movie had no chance from the get-go because of the unimaginative nature of Bryan Singer still stuck in the late 70's rather than the new generation.
 
^^^

Yep, could not have said it better myself!


It felt as though it was more of a homage to the late Christopher Reeve than anything else.

Big mistake on Singers part to cast Routh to play the roll of another actors interpretation of the Superman character. Basically Routh was acting to be Christopher Reeve, not Superman. Almost gotta feel bad for Routh considering the outcome of all this.

Another problem for SR is the fact that Superman leaves for 5 years, comes back to earth, only to find out that he has gotten Lois Pregnant before he left, and then ends up finding out he has a kid?!


Someone said it perfectly in the MOS thread...

"So basically, The son (Superman) becomes a father and the father becomes a dead beat dad who owes 5 years of back child support!"


Another problem I had was Sups becoming a stalker, flying over to Lois house to use his X-Ray vision to see through her walls and spy on her!? Yep, Creepy indeed!


Combine all this with lack of action, a bad story, and a wanna-be Chris Reeve, and what do you have... Superman Returns!


Thats my feeling on it.
 
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I finally got this dvd for 2 bucks and wish I hadn't. I couldn't stop thinking of a Martin Short everytime supes appeared.

I can see why people hated this film.
 
I finally got this dvd for 2 bucks and wish I hadn't. I couldn't stop thinking of a Martin Short everytime supes appeared.

I can see why people hated this film.



LOL, whats funny is I bought this as-well for $2 or $3 bucks off Amazon with free Prime shipping, I tried watching it a couple months back and just couldn't get through it. I think I stopped the movie 1/3rd of the way through, it was boring me to death!


I actually enjoyed the special features though, that was worth the high price tag I payed for it IMO! hehe :D
 
I can appreciate Warner trying to close the first run but sheesh do it with alittle better class.
 
We need either a mini series on hbo or a film of this. Was awesome.

Definitely, he should be a part of some HBO mini series with Thriller - Horror genre.

I find that he has certainly improved his acting ability and he looks so much like Superman now.
 
I agree with everything you said but liking the scene where Luthor beats Superman. It was cheesy, and the fact that Luthor stabs Sups and actually penetrates his suit and body with Kryptonite was all that more ridiculous.


BTW, I seen you say you did not care that much for Reeve as Sups, but that you liked Routh. Just wondering which one you prefer in the roll? I do find it a bit odd that you say this as Routh was basically mimicing Reeve's portrayal.


:)

I don't think he was much of anything like Reeve TBH.

Sure, he said some of the same lines, and they dressed him up to look a lot like Reeve's Clark, but Routh played this quiet, pensive, lonely and sad person.

Now, Reeve never did anything wrong. And I think he was a great actor, had natural charisma and was a wonderful person in general.

The only reasons I don't care for his Superman is because there are moments that literally make me cringe at the cheesy awkwardness... which is more a sign of the time it was made that anything. And secondly because I don't particulalrly like the characterisation of that version of Supes/Clark. The bumbling Clark. The Superman who seems to report to a dead father's floating head.
 
I don't think he was much of anything like Reeve TBH.

Sure, he said some of the same lines, and they dressed him up to look a lot like Reeve's Clark, but Routh played this quiet, pensive, lonely and sad person.

Now, Reeve never did anything wrong. And I think he was a great actor, had natural charisma and was a wonderful person in general.

The only reasons I don't care for his Superman is because there are moments that literally make me cringe at the cheesy awkwardness... which is more a sign of the time it was made that anything. And secondly because I don't particulalrly like the characterisation of that version of Supes/Clark. The bumbling Clark. The Superman who seems to report to a dead father's floating head.

Totally agreed, Reeve played the character of the time, and today it comes off as really cheesy and cringe-worthy. Routh played a more modern take on the same character. He played it more thoughtful, brooding and reserved. Non of the "Oh dont thank me warden, we're on the same team." which just wouldnt work today.

Personally I thought Routh played it brilliantly, saying a lot more with his facial expressions than he did with words.
 
Totally agreed, Reeve played the character of the time, and today it comes off as really cheesy and cringe-worthy. Routh played a more modern take on the same character. He played it more thoughtful, brooding and reserved. Non of the "Oh dont thank me warden, we're on the same team." which just wouldnt work today.

Personally I thought Routh played it brilliantly, saying a lot more with his facial expressions than he did with words.

Definitely.

For someone who said very little, I did feel a lot of emotion from him.

The problem was (totally not his fault) that the heavy emphasis on loneliness and sadness kind of spreads throughout ALL the characters and the tone of the movie in general. It's a heavy film. It makes being Superman look like something no one would want. Like it is a burden, not a choice.

I'm really hoping that MOS does the opposite - shows that he's a hero because he WANTS to be, not because he HAS to be.
 
I think you've hit a massive nail on the head there, one I never really grasped before. I have lots of problems with SR but that kinda encapsulates most of them - the film doesn't make it appear like he truly wants to be Superman.

Little things hint at this. Like when he's in the bar, and the news reports come in of the problem with the shuttle launch. There's a moment of indecision there, where he weighs up what he should do, and doesn't seem sure of himself. I don't think I ever got that vibe from the Reeve films.
 
I think that's actually a pretty good part in the film. If you watch the extra deleted scenes you'll see more of that. I think it's actually his mother's idea to have him go back to the city and get his old life back. To me it feels like he didn't find what he was looking for on Krypton, and when he comes back he doesn't know what to do with his life. In the deleted scenes Martha sort of nudges him to to go back to his old life, to the woman he loves. She obviously doesn't know Lois has a fiancé and a son.

I think that's the point Bryan Singer wanted to make. Superman made a choice five years ago. He wanted to see if there was still something left of his home world. And he didn't think about how this would effect the rest of the world. And when he comes back he's not comfortable in his own skin anymore, everything has changed.

I personally liked the sadness in the film. It made me feel for Superman, on a whole other level than the films with Christopher Reeve.
 
Definitely.

For someone who said very little, I did feel a lot of emotion from him.

The problem was (totally not his fault) that the heavy emphasis on loneliness and sadness kind of spreads throughout ALL the characters and the tone of the movie in general. It's a heavy film. It makes being Superman look like something no one would want. Like it is a burden, not a choice.

I'm really hoping that MOS does the opposite - shows that he's a hero because he WANTS to be, not because he HAS to be.

Yeah thats true, a lot of emotion is expressed in his facial expressions, especially when he in the background watching others talk, but yeah, the lonliness he feels does spread to the rest of the movie.

I think it was an interesting idea for a Superman movie though, he was raised as a human, and we all feel lonely at times, and we all feel sometimes that nobody truly knows us. Times that by a 100 for Superman and he is going to be very emotional. The theme of the movie is literally spelled out on the scrabble board at Martha's before Superman crashlands on earth, alienation.

I think you've hit a massive nail on the head there, one I never really grasped before. I have lots of problems with SR but that kinda encapsulates most of them - the film doesn't make it appear like he truly wants to be Superman.

Little things hint at this. Like when he's in the bar, and the news reports come in of the problem with the shuttle launch. There's a moment of indecision there, where he weighs up what he should do, and doesn't seem sure of himself. I don't think I ever got that vibe from the Reeve films.

Throughout there are moments when he gives hints doesnt want to be Superman, he just wants to be human and fit in. The trip to Krypton is what bread all of this within him, he realised he was truly alone in the universe as the last Kryptonian left. No one else in the universe was like him so he just wanted to be human and fit in on his adopted world. Its only at the end when he realises Jason is his son that he finds a place in the world again. This is why I dont understand people who say the ending should be about hope and it wasnt. Well it clearly was, Superman now has a place back in the world and no longer feels 'alienated.' He now fits in and can go back to being the happy Superman we all know. I think the sequel would have portrayed that and its damn shame we will never see it.

I think that's actually a pretty good part in the film. If you watch the extra deleted scenes you'll see more of that. I think it's actually his mother's idea to have him go back to the city and get his old life back. To me it feels like he didn't find what he was looking for on Krypton, and when he comes back he doesn't know what to do with his life. In the deleted scenes Martha sort of nudges him to to go back to his old life, to the woman he loves. She obviously doesn't know Lois has a fiancé and a son.

I think that's the point Bryan Singer wanted to make. Superman made a choice five years ago. He wanted to see if there was still something left of his home world. And he didn't think about how this would effect the rest of the world. And when he comes back he's not comfortable in his own skin anymore, everything has changed.

I personally liked the sadness in the film. It made me feel for Superman, on a whole other level than the films with Christopher Reeve.

Yep, and this adds more to what I was saying above. When he realises he is alone in the universe after the trip to Krypton, it gets him down, he doesnt want to be Superman, but he knows its the right thing to do. Then he discovers the truth about Jason, and this is why he flies away smiling at the end. He has a place on earth again, he has someone who he can share things with that a human wouldnt understand. He is finally happy again and willing to do his duty to the world with a smile on his face.
 
You guys all pretty much nailed it, so, I can only really reiterate a few points:

Brandon Routh

I feel for him. A role like that is a leap of faith. I'm not even sure he got to read a script before he signed on, yet, there he was top-lining a hugely expensive, high-profile summer blockbuster with everything riding on his shoulders and almost no say in the creative process. It's tough to imagine that, even if he was bothered by the script or the costume or some of the casting choices, there was anything he could do after saying yes: he was arguably the lowest man on the totem pole in terms of leverage - despite being the star - and it really had to be just a matter of him crossing his fingers and hoping the production didn't screw him over, which leads to:

Bryan Singer

He should've just made the movie he wanted: "a story about what happens when an ex comes back into your life". The character of Superman didn't need to be anywhere near that. He also should've realized that casting Brandon was a mistake. I don't blame BR for taking the part, but dude wasn't ready. HC is roughly the same age now as BR was when filming, yet appears instantly more confident, charismatic, and comfortable than BR, largely due to his lack of experience and the job description ("play the CR Superman/Clark"), plus what had to have been one h*ll of a case of bubble-guts taking on that kind of responsibility.

Some people are Michael Jordan, most people are not. Sure, someone might be good at their job, but whatever IT is, they don't have IT (or, not yet). Even CR seemed older and more mature than he was. BR looked like a kid. It should've come down to a screen-test, period, and not a first impression over coffee. I almost get the feeling that BS (like a lot of directors) developed a crush and that his cloudy-judgement is what betrayed him. He also should never have cast Kate Bosworth. With any film you only get so many chances to ask an audience to suspend their disbelief - we're already dealing with the fanstical in Superman, himself, you don't stretch credulity further by having the two leads appear younger than the versions of themselves that were supposed to have existed "5 years ago".

Costume

Beating a dead-horse, but funk it: it didn't look good on Routh, doesn't look any better on a manniquin, and shouldn't have existed in that form. Singer picked a costume director who's tastes and talents didn't line-up with the property, giving us a bunch of flourish and "cutesy" stuff that isn't Superman. The costume is, already, enough of a SOB (suspension of disbelief) without ridiculous tiny S-shields and a plastic belt and cape that made it look like Clark got hold of CAD software and a vacuum-forming machine and went bug-nuts.

Story

Also said a bajillionty-six times: you don't continue - vaguely - a nearly 3 decade old story by skipping over the last 2 parts and then cherry-picking random plot points from the rest - vaguely. And if you do, for the love of God don't just remake Superman 1 with a kid and cellphones. What's shocking isn't that WB OK'd it (Singer was on a roll and studio suits have zero creative instincts with which to judge an idea that bad), but, Dick Donner, et tu?

The pitch must've been: "let's cast a new actor to portray the same version of Superman/Clark that Chris Reeve owned, and we'll ignore the last few times we actually saw that character on screen and instead do a quasi-sequel to the sequel from waaay back in 1980 that at its heart is really just a love-story about that one f***king ex that shows up at your door just when you've got your life back together and - uggh, don't you hate that?! Gah! Plus, it'll have cool special effects sometimes and others it'll just look like Polar Express Superman, and oh! our main characters will look de-aged somehow." Whatever drugs BS and WB and Dick Donnor were on? I want those :)
 
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Totally agreed, Reeve played the character of the time, and today it comes off as really cheesy and cringe-worthy. Routh played a more modern take on the same character. He played it more thoughtful, brooding and reserved. Non of the "Oh dont thank me warden, we're on the same team." which just wouldnt work today.

Personally I thought Routh played it brilliantly, saying a lot more with his facial expressions than he did with words.

I just have to laugh when people actually resort to bashing Reeve to raise up Routh. Reeve on his worst day is FAR better than Routh could ever dream of being.
 
I just have to laugh when people actually resort to bashing Reeve to raise up Routh. Reeve on his worst day is FAR better than Routh could ever dream of being.

So you think it's laughable when people resort to bash one in order to praise the other... and you do the exact same thing?
 

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