The Dark Knight What 'departures from canon' are not acceptable to you?

[Darkest Knight]

Suddenly he just fell off? Come on, this isn't sports where injuries end a career. Wes Bently was never a good actor. Jesus, not to mention he has snaggle teeth. Each time I saw him on screen I was like damn man, get some braces and fix those sideways front teeth. For someone who was supposed to be bad a$$, terrifying villain, he came off as threatning as a basket full of new born kittens.

 

[Miranda Fox]

Suddenly he just fell off? Come on, this isn't sports where injuries end a career. Wes Bently was never a good actor. Jesus, not to mention he has snaggle teeth. Each time I saw him on screen I was like damn man, get some braces and fix those sideways front teeth. For someone who was supposed to be bad a$$, terrifying villain, he came off as threatning as a basket full of new born kittens.

Pointless teeth stuff aside, he was pretty damn good in American Beauty.

 

[Muziko]

I agree, Ghost Rider was a phuckin TERRIBLE movie. I don't understand how it made that much opening weekend. I guess that's what good trailers'll do for ya. I hope the rest of the big movies this year (FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer, Transformers, etc...) don't phuckin suck. I'm thinkin' 2008'll be the year... or maybe I'm just dyin' to see The Dark Knight.

Cambio y Fuera,
Muziko

 

[Darkest Knight]

2008 is going to be jam packed with good movies. Iron Man and Dark Knight are going to be some seriously good comic book movies. Great castings and directors on both sides. Interesting characters, etc. Can't wait. Oh, and Hulk 2 as an appetizer.

 

[Cristo]

What does it take to get your opinion heard around here?

I posted my ideas numerous times and nobody's even acknowledged them.

 

[Crooklyn]

2008 is going to be jam packed with good movies. Iron Man and Dark Knight are going to be some seriously good comic book movies. Great castings and directors on both sides. Interesting characters, etc. Can't wait. Oh, and Hulk 2 as an appetizer.

So umm...why do you still a GR avvy?

What does it take to get your opinion heard around here?

I posted my ideas numerous times and nobody's even acknowledged them.

I could've sworn the wind spoke to me...

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

What does it take to get your opinion heard around here?

I posted my ideas numerous times and nobody's even acknowledged them.

You can start by calming down and letting nature take it's course.

Don't be so pushy; I checked your previous posts and the majority of them are asking/pleading/demanding your ideas be read and responded to.

 

[The Guard]

Wes Bentley is a fantastic actor. GHOST RIDER is not remotely (from what I've heard, I haven't seen it yet) a decent measure of his ability. Check out THE FOUR FEATHERS and AMERICAN BEAUTY first.

 

[Darkest Knight]

Wes Bentley is a fantastic actor. GHOST RIDER is not remotely (from what I've heard, I haven't seen it yet) a decent measure of his ability. Check out THE FOUR FEATHERS and AMERICAN BEAUTY first.

Yet he couldn't act to save his life in a simple role. Wes Bently sucks. And wouldn't at all be able to pull off the threatning precense of Batman. His voice sound slike a 14 year old. He sucks.

 

[Darkest Knight]

So umm...why do you still a GR avvy?

Haven't had time to change it yet..

 

[darwinwins]

if batman were a flaming homo with nipples, a cod piece, a boy wonder sidekick, etc., etc., i would hate it.

...

 

[trustyside-kick]

Ra's Al Ghul
While I enjoyed Batman Begins...the entire way he was created and introduced in the comics is just so much better. The whole seeking out Batman, finding who he is, and testing him to be the rightful man to wed his daughter and be his heir just cannot be topped in my eyes for Ra's introduction. They could have done everything they did in the movie, but incorporate Talia and the other small details.

The Joker
I have much faith that he will be done and presented correctly, however there are always a few things on my mind that make me worry considering Nolan's take on the Batman franchise. If he does not have all of the facial features The Joker has, I will be extremely upset.

If someone wants to argue back about Nolan's realistic vision...you are going to enter a losing battle. The way Joker was introduced in The Man Who Laughs is the perfect way to explain how the Joker is the way he is physically in a realistic manner to fit Nolan's realistic vision/world (the scene where Bruce goes in disguise and interviews those workers at the chemical plant). Also, I hope he wears the suit get-up: A pin-striped dark purple suit, with the flower (doesn't have to necessarily be acid inside; I'll let it slide), the shoes, gloves...the whole shabang.

The Joker's toxins and laughing gas is a must. Again, for refernce, The Man Who Laughs is the perfect storyline to use for reference. Many people would say The Killing Joke, but as for presenting Joker to Batman for the first time...TMWL is flawless.

One of the key things to me is watching the movie and going "Yup, that's the Joker." I do not worry in advance about the acting cause I'm sure Ledger will do great and that the script for the Joker's actions and dialogue will be amazing. The only thing I worry about is his appearance because of this.

 

[The Guard]

Yet he couldn't act to save his life in a simple role. Wes Bently sucks. And wouldn't at all be able to pull off the threatning precense of Batman. His voice sound slike a 14 year old. He sucks.

He couldn't act to save his life, or he couldn't make miracles out of nothing? Because from what I understand, he had very little to work with that was wow-worthy.

And maybe you just didn't like his performance. Because there is a difference between actually sucking, and now wowing everyone. How do you know that the "14 year old voice" wasn't part of the performance? You're telling me "Wes Bentley sucks" as if it is simple fact, after you have seen him in a single role? Sorry, not buying it. He may well have sucked in GHOST RIDER, but he does not suck all the time. People who come out of Julliard don't tend to suck on any level. He was also, I believe, in line to play Spider-Man in the films before Tobey Maguire was chosen. I can't remember if it was Raimi who wanted him, or the studio, but I think it was Raimi.

 

[Darkest Knight]

And you're telling me he's great because he was good in a few minor supporting roles in only two films? If he was as good as you say, he'd be pulling at least some work, let alone quality work. He's barely in anything, and his first true mainstream showing he blew it. He flat out sucked. Nic Cage, Sam Elliot, and Peter Fonda didn't have much to work with script wise as well, yet they nailed they roles and made it believable and entertaining. Wes character was amped up to be the baddest villain in town, and the way he delivered his lines was pathetic. Good actors can still make something out of bad lines. Maybe not everytime, but at least once. And it wasn't just me, G ... one of the biggest problems with the movie, and most actively ripped on is this adolescent Wes Bently and his piss poor acting. The 14 year old voice was his natural voice, it wasn't part of the character. They had to modify his voice a few times to at least make it sound threatning.

 

[Miranda Fox]

He couldn't act to save his life, or he couldn't make miracles out of nothing? Because from what I understand, he had very little to work with that was wow-worthy.

Hardly surprising. What happened to this guy? I seriously thought he would hit big after American Beauty (I love that film.)

And maybe you just didn't like his performance. Because there is a difference between actually sucking, and now wowing everyone. How do you know that the "14 year old voice" wasn't part of the performance? You're telling me "Wes Bentley sucks" as if it is simple fact, after you have seen him in a single role? Sorry, not buying it. He may well have sucked in GHOST RIDER, but he does not suck all the time. People who come out of Julliard don't tend to suck on any level. He was also, I believe, in line to play Spider-Man in the films before Tobey Maguire was chosen. I can't remember if it was Raimi who wanted him, or the studio, but I think it was Raimi.

Interesting, I never knew that.

I definitely wanted him for Batman back when the YO project was still in development - still think he would've been good but ultimately, Bale FTW!

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

He couldn't act to save his life, or he couldn't make miracles out of nothing? Because from what I understand, he had very little to work with that was wow-worthy.

And maybe you just didn't like his performance. Because there is a difference between actually sucking, and now wowing everyone. How do you know that the "14 year old voice" wasn't part of the performance? You're telling me "Wes Bentley sucks" as if it is simple fact, after you have seen him in a single role? Sorry, not buying it. He may well have sucked in GHOST RIDER, but he does not suck all the time. People who come out of Julliard don't tend to suck on any level. He was also, I believe, in line to play Spider-Man in the films before Tobey Maguire was chosen. I can't remember if it was Raimi who wanted him, or the studio, but I think it was Raimi.

He really was terrible in it.

And this is coming from someone who's liked him a lot in other roles, and liked the rest of Ghost Rider. He really was the weak link, surprisingly so.

You should see it first.

 

[The Guard]

If you measure being a good actor by being a lead role in many, many films, I can't help you. You either don't understand my argument, or you don't understand acting, or both.

I didn't say Bentley was great, as in one of the greats. I said he was fantastic. Fantastic like, James Marsden fantastic. He's a good actor who is mostly very good in his roles, whether they're small or not. Entertaining. Etc.

I also didn't say that Wes Bentley wasn't bad in GHOST RIDER. By all accounts his character (or he) was awful. All I implied was that one bad performance doesn't make him a horrible actor, and that he is in fact a very talented one. If we wrote off actors every time they gave a bad performance, almost everyone would be written off by now.

And I'll wager dollars to donuts that Cage, Elliot and Fonda had a bit more to work with than Bentley did, at least in terms of dialogue. Because that's also something that all accounts point to about GHOST RIDER. And that sucks. But it's not indicitive of Bentley as an actor overall, and to make that assumption would be making an enormous mistake and denying yourself some good performances.

 

[Miranda Fox]

If you measure being a good actor by being a lead role in many, many films, I can't help you. You either don't understand my argument, or you don't understand acting, or both.

I didn't say Bentley was great, as in one of the greats. I said he was fantastic. Fantastic like, James Marsden fantastic. He's a good actor who is mostly very good in his roles, whether they're small or not. Entertaining. Etc.

I also didn't say that Wes Bentley wasn't bad in GHOST RIDER. By all accounts his character (or he) was awful. All I implied was that one bad performance doesn't make him a horrible actor, and that he is in fact a very talented one. If we wrote off actors every time they gave a bad performance, almost everyone would be written off by now.

And I'll wager dollars to donuts that Cage, Eliot and Fonda had much more to work with than Bentley did. Because that's also something that all accounts point to about GHOST RIDER. And that sucks. But it's not indicitave of Bentley as an actor overall, and to make that assumption would be making an enormous mistake and denying yourself some good performances.

Very well said. I still think Wes is very good and TBH, everything I've read about Ghost Rider tells me nobody came out of that mess looking good, except Peter Fonda. MSJ isn't a director who has a track record of getting the best from his actors.

Also, I remember how several years ago many people derided Heath Ledger as being a bad actor because of some poor film choices. Fast forward to a year ago and he had an Oscar nom and the widespread acclaim that goes with it. Sometimes, good actors end up in bad roles.

 

[StorminNorman]

MSJ isn't a director who has a track record of getting the best from his actors.

Ghost Rider by all accounts is a horrible movie, however I think MSJ is a better director than he is given credit for.

His vision for Daredevil was great. His version of Daredevil was great. He got screwed by Avi Arad and it ruined Daredevil. I hope the case was the same with Ghost Rider, though again, by all accounts there was no redeaming aspect for the film at all.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

My opinion about MSJ -- and to be fair, my opinion maybe shouldn't count because it's based solely on the Daredevil theatrical cut -- is that he doesn't seem to be able to give his films any genuine emotional depth. I found the DD theatrical cut to be watchable, even mildly enjoyable, but very difficult to give a damn about after the fact. Nothing about the film resonated. The characters were non-entities to me. I mean you've got Jon Favreau and Ben Affleck in a movie, and they both come out looking useless?

And I'll grant that Affleck is hit or miss, but even Kevin Smith can get a great performance out of the guy, and his work in Hollywoodland was nothing short of incredible. Why? Smith is a talented writer; and likewise Hollywoodland was full of strong material for an actor to dig into. Whereas Daredevil? Yeah, not so much.

By all accounts that is the biggest problem with Ghost Rider, as well: the script (and subsequently the film) has no emotional depth. Harry Knowles, in his review, said that young Johnny Blaze, when he finds out his father has cancer, has zero emotional response. Zero. And despite being completely screwed over by the devil? Apparently no big deal, because he can laugh it off.

When a script is that bad, you really can't fault any of the actors involved. Blame the writer. Blame the director. When they're the same person... say hello to the hack.

 

[Kritish]

The hardcore comic nerds won't win this battle. Nolan wants a film that is realistic and appeals to the masses, not comic freaks. I really don't want the Joker to look like he does in the comics, it clashes with the Nolan look and feel. I think he's going to wear street cloths and no lip stick.

 

[StorminNorman]

The hardcore comic nerds won't win this battle. Nolan wants a film that is realistic and appeals to the masses, not comic freaks. I really don't want the Joker to look like he does in the comics, it clashes with the Nolan look and feel. I think he's going to wear street cloths and no lip stick.

If you were dealing with a second tier Batman villian, I think you are probably right. But you are dealing with the Joker. The most famous Comic Book Villain out there. People have seen him portrayed forever as a guy with white skin, green hair and red lips with a purple suit. Anything short of that I think turns off the the masses - not appeases them.

 

[Crooklyn]

The hardcore comic nerds won't win this battle. Nolan wants a film that is realistic and appeals to the masses, not comic freaks. I really don't want the Joker to look like he does in the comics, it clashes with the Nolan look and feel. I think he's going to wear street cloths and no lip stick.

This is almost ban-worthy material. Almost.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Nolan wants a film that is realistic and appeals to the masses, not comic freaks.

Yeah. Unlikely that obscure, cult filmTim Burton made in '89.

Stop putting words in Nolan's mouth.

Dumb, dumb words.

 

[The Batman]

I really do hate it when fanboys try to speak for the general masses.

in fact, going by the fact that the spider-man franchise leaves all other superhero ones in the dust, i'd say they prefer more colorful and outlandish tones than nolans more realistic one

its just fanboys who want to see their overly violent relaistic version of batman and are trying to use nolan to justify their vision.