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Comics What if...

What if Spider-man had saved Gwen?

  • Gwen and Peter would have ended up together.

  • Gwen would have died some other way...it was fate.

  • Peter would have still ended up with MJ.

  • I could care less....

  • What kind of Dumb@$$ poll is this anyway?

  • Harry would have never become GG2.

  • Norman would still be alive.

  • Someone else would have died in Gwen's place.


Results are only viewable after voting.

fangrl06

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...Spider-man had saved Gwen Stacy?

Would Peter end up with MJ or Gwen?

Would MJ have changed at all or would she still be a Party girl?

Would Harry/Norman still be alive today?

Would someone else close to Peter have died later on because he was not as careful?

Would Gwen and Peter live happily ever after?

Would Spider-girl have ever been born?

Would Gwen die some other way because it was fate?

I know, I know...I have far too much time on my hands....
But seriosly, tell me your thoughts...
 
This was an actual What If already....you should check it out if you get a chance...
 
Well. Norman is still alive unfortunately.
 
Gwen's death has a lot of branches that spun off it, and its a shame we never saw any of the changes on the real effects that occured in that What If?

Now if Gwen had lived, Peter never would've been in such an insane rage to try and kill the Goblin. If Osborn wasn't so scared ****less of Spidey, maybe he wouldn't have tried something as stupid as flying a glider directly in front of his. Hell maybe Osborn could've actually been treated, and cured like he was in the What If? Osborn may have been able to destory all the Green Goblin hideouts and locations, stoping the later existence of the Hobgoblin entirely, and in doing so, Ned Leeds is never set up to be killed by Roderick Kingsley.

What about Harry? Lets say Peter doesn't go out for "petty vengeance" like he says in ASM 122 and simply stays with Harry, when he needs it. Harry never finds out the truth about his father like he did. And never becomes the Goblin, which eventually causes his death.

MJ doesn't stay with Peter like she did in ASM 122, because Gwen doesn't die. Thus Peter simply thinks of her as an airhead for the rest of his life. The two of them never become and item, never get married, and never have a kid, who May, or May not exist.

Miles Warren had a secret thing for Gwen which even he didn't know about until she died. Well now she didn't. Warren never snaps, and never starts cloning everything he can get his hands on. Both Clone Saga's never happen
 
CaptainStacy said:
This was an actual What If already....you should check it out if you get a chance...
Really? Cool, what issue? Do you think someone can post a few clips from it? I might want to pick that up....BTW....nice observations Citizen_ Kane. I think a lot of that might have happened.
 
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Thanks a lot Citizen_Kane! I just went up to a near by comic shop and bought it(yeah, I'm a nerd). It was really cool, but didn't address a lot of issues I was hoping they would.
 
To address one point- about Harry- I still think that there's a good chance he would've adopted the Goblin mantle even if Norman lived.

Let's say everything happened the same way with the exception of Gwen's death. Peter still has to take the Goblin down. Also, note that the Goblin died not due to Peter's killing rage, but his own actions. So there's still every chance that the Goblin might have still died. But even if he didn't, Peter wouldn't have let him slide on the amnesia schtick again. Gwen was nearly killed. Peter had to know that one way or another, society had to be rid of the Goblin. Had Norman lived, he'd have been turned over to the authorities. Of course, with Osborn's money and influence he'd have pled insanity and ended up in a Mental institution where he may or may not have been cured. I could also easily see Norman's defense attorneys making Spidey apart of the defense, saying that Spidey's menacing of Norman drove him to his heinous acts as the Goblin, and Jonah taking the idea and running with it.

Meanwhile, the psychological damage done to Harry would remain. Perhaps even his continuing on with his drug addiction. At any rate, whether to in his mind please his father, or to outdo his father for revenge, Harry could easily have still inherited the mantle of the Goblin. With both Father and Son as the Green Goblin, some great stories could have been generated.

Also, there is naturally the threat of Peter's ID being revealed. But at least it would have been a meaningful, legitmitate reveal rather than what we've got.
 
As an aside- the Spidey in the above clip is more the real Peter than what we've seen in continuity in a long time. :D :(
 
One thing I noticed when I read this issue of "what if" was that
MJ didn't go to Gwen and Peter's wedding. Perhaps she had feelings for Peter before Gwen's death? Also, the Green Goblin seemed very out of character. After SM saves Gwen, he admits defeat and sends proof that SM is really Peter to Jonah. Another thing I didn't like, was that Gwen was okay with Peter being SM after he explained he never killed her father. That is why I always like MJ better, because she is probably the only person in Peter's life who can handle him being SM.
I don't think Gwen could have ever handled Peter being SM. She always thought of him as a sweet boy that wouldn't hurt a fly and loved him for something he wasn't. MJ always knew who Peter was and loved him for it.
 
fangrl06 said:
One thing I noticed when I read this issue of "what if" was that
MJ didn't go to Gwen and Peter's wedding. Perhaps she had feelings for Peter before Gwen's death? Also, the Green Goblin seemed very out of character. After SM saves Gwen, he admits defeat and sends proof that SM is really Peter to Jonah. Another thing I didn't like, was that Gwen was okay with Peter being SM after he explained he never killed her father. That is why I always like MJ better, because she is probably the only person in Peter's life who can handle him being SM.
I don't think Gwen could have ever handled Peter being SM. She always thought of him as a sweet boy that wouldn't hurt a fly and loved him for something he wasn't. MJ always knew who Peter was and loved him for it.

Where did you ever get that idea? In fact, her learning Peter was spidey would have helped answer alot of questions for Gwen. One pertinent thing that kept coming up in their relationship was why Peter would run whenever there was danger. She was always sure he wasn't a coward, but didn't understand what he was doing. If she learned he was Spidey then she'd know.

And MJ DIDN'T always know. That's a retcon as big- if not BIGGER than Sins Past. If you read the previous issues there's just too much evidence to show that MJ didn't know Peter was Spidey. Even thoughts in her head reflected this. And that retcon represented the reason why Marvel is in the condition it's in now. When I read that nonsense I knew that if they saw they could get away with it, they'd think that continuity was now a plaything at the whim of editorial.
 
fangrl06 said:
I don't think Gwen could have ever handled Peter being SM. She always thought of him as a sweet boy that wouldn't hurt a fly and loved him for something he wasn't. MJ always knew who Peter was and loved him for it.

I can just see our friend Dragon arguing that fangrl. He's Gwen's number one fan :cwink:

EDIT: There ya go :oldrazz:
 
Doc Ock said:
I can just see our friend Dragon arguing that fangrl. He's Gwen's number one fan :cwink:

EDIT: There ya go :oldrazz:

It isn't even a point of that. I was reading when Peter and MJ got together and applauded it. It's just that the handling of the relationship ever since they got together (And I mean after the first Clone Saga) that's been the problem.

But moreover, there are so many MJ-heads on these boards spewing this kind of thing that it's like Gwen needs someone defending her.
 
Doc Ock said:
I can just see our friend Dragon arguing that fangrl. He's Gwen's number one fan :cwink:

EDIT: There ya go :oldrazz:
Thanks Ock. It's not that I'm not a fan of Gwen, but I just can't see her handling Peter being SM well. The worry would drive her insane. Sure, MJ worries about Peter, but she trusts him and his "powers". If Gwen and Peter had ever gotten married, I'm sure it would end in divorce. Ultimately Peter would end up with MJ, no matter how much he and Gwen love each other.
 
Dragon said:
It isn't even a point of that. I was reading when Peter and MJ got together and applauded it. It's just that the handling of the relationship ever since they got together (And I mean after the first Clone Saga) that's been the problem.

Oh I agree. The Spider Marriage has been for the most part a big yawner. And I've seen many fans say that's when they quit reading Spider-Man comics. As soon as Peter and MJ tied the knot.

But moreover, there are so many MJ-heads on these boards spewing this kind of thing that it's like Gwen needs someone defending her.

Oh I was just kidding around my friend. Where's that sense of humour?? :cwink:

Everyone knows Gwen's relationship with Peter was legendary. It's why her death was so dramatic. He lost one of the best things to ever happen to him.
 
Dragon said:
It isn't even a point of that. I was reading when Peter and MJ got together and applauded it. It's just that the handling of the relationship ever since they got together (And I mean after the first Clone Saga) that's been the problem.

But moreover, there are so many MJ-heads on these boards spewing this kind of thing that it's like Gwen needs someone defending her.
Trust me, I am a huge Gwen fan who (although I hate to admit it) sat next to a box of tissues the first time I read ASM 121. I just think that MJ and Peter work better together.
 
Doc Ock said:
Oh I agree. The Spider Marriage has been for the most part a big yawner. And I've seen many fans say that's when they quit reading Spider-Man comics. As soon as Peter and MJ tied the knot.



Oh I was just kidding around my friend. Where's that sense of humour?? :cwink:

Everyone knows Gwen's relationship with Peter was legendary. It's why her death was so dramatic. He lost one of the best things to ever happen to him.
I agree. I am a big MJ/Peter fan, but I would love for the writers to explore something new. I know they already explored this, but I would love for Peter and MJ to go on a break for a year or two and maybe even see new people. Maybe they would get the fans to want them together again.
 
I think one problem with the marriage is: Marriage IS boring!!! us married folks can attest to that. If Gwen and Peter had been married, it likely would have been just as boring, maybe slightly less so. The fact that it seems so boring is entirely the writer's fault. Did any of you read the newspaper strip about a month or two back? Captivated posts it on here somewhere..they used MJ's acting to put her into a role as a superheroine, Peter came home to find her in her costume rehearsing, and married-people acts followed. A marriage can be spiced up if the writers try.
 
gliderpilotgirl said:
I think one problem with the marriage is: Marriage IS boring!!! us married folks can attest to that. If Gwen and Peter had been married, it likely would have been just as boring, maybe slightly less so. The fact that it seems so boring is entirely the writer's fault. Did any of you read the newspaper strip about a month or two back? Captivated posts it on here somewhere..they used MJ's acting to put her into a role as a superheroine, Peter came home to find her in her costume rehearsing, and married-people acts followed. A marriage can be spiced up if the writers try.
Slightly less so? I think MJ is more exciting then Gwen. Gwen had a big heart, but MJ is a lot more interesting. I think they could make the marriage interesting, but the problem is, the've been married for a long time(what late eighties?) and there's only so much you can write about a married couple who've been married so long.
 
fangrl06 said:
Trust me, I am a huge Gwen fan who (although I hate to admit it) sat next to a box of tissues the first time I read ASM 121. I just think that MJ and Peter work better together.

But see, that's my real problem. MJ and Peter don't work that well IMO.

It isn't that they can't work well. They're comic book characters. They can do whatever the writer says they can (Of course how well this works is reflective of the writer's skill).

The problem is this- Much of MJ's character that made her interesting was lost once they decided to bring her and Peter together. Most fans will agree that MJ was essentially transformed into an amalgam of herself and Gwen to make her "marriage material".

This is wrong on two levels. First, because again, MJ had to surrender her own identity to be Peter's girl, which she shouldn't have. The writers should have found a way to create common ground between the actress/party girl and the science nerd/superhero. Secondly, even Gwen would have suffered if being written as MJ has been for the last 25 years or so. Such as she is, she's a non-character. A cypher. She merely serves whatever fill-in role the story needs. Need a sexy distraction for Peter or eye candy? She's there. Need someone to cry over Peter? She's there. Need a potential hostage? She's there. Need someone to be "strong" for Peter? She's there.

But aside from filling those roles, who is she? She's not a whole person, IMO. Why do I say this? Because if she were her own person, she wouldn't be all those things. She'd fail to be there for Peter at times, and be a stronger presence for Peter at others.

I've long maintained that Gwen would have been a far better mate for SPIDER-MAN than MJ has been, because she had much more potential to generate interesting Spider-Man stories than MJ has.

When Gwen died there was tons of things we didn't know about her. Her interests, what she wanted to be, her past. Her father was a cop, so the impact of his life and career on her could have brought out numerous stories. We know nothing about her mother. Just as Peter's dead parents created scenarios (Many of them very poorly executed, but...) So too could Gwen's missing mother have (Afterall, it was never stated that she was dead). At the beginning of Sins Past, I thought Gwen's mom might have turned out to be the twins' caretaker for example.

And it's surprising to me that anyone who actually read the stories with Gwen would question her being able to "handle" Peter being Spidey. She handled far worse, including the idea of her beloved father being a corrupt pawn of the Kingpin. Sure- there would have been rough spots, but that's why we read these comics. And I think the resolutions could have been more poweful than "I just need to hear you say you need me" :rolleyes:

Further, the likelihood of Gwen being a cop like her dad would have made her a part of the action in Spidey's stories as well as the personal drama stuff. How great would be her inner turmoil of having to bring Spidey in knowing he was the man she loved. How great would the story be when she has to confront peter over the death of her father? Some classic stories could have been generated from Peter-Gwen. I have yet to see ONE from Peter-MJ.

And as far as Gwen loving a false-image of Peter- even if you take MJ's always knowing as Gospel (Which I don't)- you have to admit that Gwen's love for Peter was even deeper because she didn't know. Peter acted like a coward, yet still she loved him. He acted like a jerk, yet still she loved him. It was easy for MJ, because she knew the reason for Peter's weirdness.
Gwen went on her gut instinct, and loved the man she knew was inside of Peter. That man is Spider-Man.
 
Well said, but I don't know. I still think Gwen believing Peter was a coward or a jerk and still loving him kind of shows that she loved him, but didn't know him. Peter is niether a jerk nor coward and Mary Jane knows that. Mary Jane knows Peter and loves him. Just because Gwen loved Peter blindly doesn't mean that she loved him more. In fact I think it means she loved him less, because when it comes down to it, she never really knew him.
 
fangrl06 said:
Well said, but I don't know. I still think Gwen believing Peter was a coward or a jerk and still loving him kind of shows that she loved him, but didn't know him. Peter is niether a jerk nor coward and Mary Jane knows that. Mary Jane knows Peter and loves him. Just because Gwen loved Peter blindly doesn't mean that she loved him more. In fact I think it means she loved him less, because when it comes down to it, she never really knew him.

But that's just it- Gwen never believed he was those things. People would say Peter was those things and Gwen would always say she knew he wasn't (And would at times deck the one saying it. See ASM #39, 68, 107,109, etc.). But she was wondering what was actually happening. So learning he was Spidey would have answered that burning question.

And it doesn't mean she loved him less. She knew his heart, even if she didn't know every fact about Peter. She knew the real Peter, without having been privy to a chance glance out her window seeing Spider-Man emerge fomr Peter's window.

And the same could be flipped on MJ. How hard is it to be infatuated with a superhero? If she had to get to know Peter from scratch, not knowing about Peter's double-life, she likely would have dismissed him without a second glance.
 
Dragon said:
But that's just it- Gwen never believed he was those things. People would say Peter was those things and Gwen would always say she knew he wasn't (And would at times deck the one saying it. See ASM #39, 68, 107,109, etc.). But she was wondering what was actually happening. So learning he was Spidey would have answered that burning question.

And it doesn't mean she loved him less. She knew his heart, even if she didn't know every fact about Peter. She knew the real Peter, without having been privy to a chance glance out her window seeing Spider-Man emerge fomr Peter's window.

And the same could be flipped on MJ. How hard is it to be infatuated with a superhero? If she had to get to know Peter from scratch, not knowing about Peter's double-life, she likely would have dismissed him without a second glance.
LOL...I remember when Gwen layed that guy out, that was awesome. The thing is though, that later in that same issue she confronted Peter about it because she was beginning to believe it....Anyway, you said yourself that thoughts in MJ's head proved that she didn't know that Peter was SM, but even if she did, MJ would have never dismissed him. Although she likes to hide it, MJ is a really good person. Who was the one who spent the most time with Harry while he was in the hospital? MJ was (Peter was out with Gwen and out being SM). I guess we can never really know how Gwen would have handled Peter being SM, but we know MJ has given herself to Peter dispite the fact that she could have easily married some famous actor or director to jump start her career.
 
fangrl06 said:
LOL...I remember when Gwen layed that guy out, that was awesome. The thing is though, that later in that same issue she confronted Peter about it because she was beginning to believe it....Anyway, you said yourself that thoughts in MJ's head proved that she didn't know that Peter was SM, but even if she did, MJ would have never dismissed him. Although she likes to hide it, MJ is a really good person. Who was the one who spent the most time with Harry while he was in the hospital? MJ was (Peter was out with Gwen and out being SM). I guess we can never really know how Gwen would have handled Peter being SM, but we know MJ has given herself to Peter dispite the fact that she could have easily married some famous actor or director to jump start her career.

Uh Mj actually caused Harry to start using drugs, when she started to mack on Peter in front of him
 
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