Comics Why Does MJ Keep Getting the Shaft?

[ragingdemon155]

Now while I agree with some of the posters, I don't feel that MJ has been mishandled THAT badly. I really think that's one of the few thing's that JMS has actually handled decently. Now granted, I really wish writers wouldn't be scared to actually advance the relationship between Peter/MJ (have a Baby, have there own place...show them having an occasional dinner together). But as a whole I don't think that MJ has been treated that awfully during his run.

When Peter and MJ are written to there full potential there easily the most interesting relationship and my favorite in comics.

 

[ScottishFogg]

i agree with you, ragingdemon155.

i guess i'm just wishing or hoping for some continuity and some growth in her character and i'm not getting either and it makes me sad.

oh well. i guess i'll just have to be happy with what i get when i get it (on a side note, i really liked the dinner scene in Secret War. it was a nice touch).

 

[Eye Doc]

After thinking about HOM: Spidey, I came to the realization that the series isn't about Mary Jane, or Gwen Stacy at all. The reality is that his reality was about what would happen if Uncle Ben never died.

If Uncle Ben never died, Peter never would have become a superhero. Remember, he was pretty arrogant when he first got his powers and the fact that Uncle Ben died was the reason why that was kept in check. It's safe to say that if he never was a Super hero, the events that ended with Gwen Stacy losing her life probably would have never took place, hence him staying with Gwen because she never died. Therefore he wasn't with Gwen because that's what he truly wanted, it was just a side effect of Uncle Ben not dying.

At least that's what I like to tell myself.

Good post. I never thought of it from this perspective. I think if the HoM writer(s) had been a little more clear on this point, there probably would not have been as much of an uproar.

Eye Doc

 

[Effect]

How would you compare the treatment of 616 MJ vs Ultimate MJ vs. MC2 MJ?

 

[stillanerd]

How would you compare the treatment of 616 MJ vs Ultimate MJ vs. MC2 MJ?

Well, ever since Peter and MJ were married in 616, some writers must of thought that her happy-go lucky, party girl personality must have made her unlikeable, never mind that her character had considerably deepened because of writers like Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, and Tom DeFlaco. So the powers that be at Marvel either tried to make her into nothing more than either "Mrs. Spider-Man" or your typical nagging cop's wife, who at one time contemplated an affair with a fellow actor and took up chain smoking because she didn't like her hubby being Spider-Man so much--even though that was partly why she was attracted to him in the first place. Yeah, real likeable :rolleyes. As a result, she's pretty much become the scapegoat for why Marvel believed nobody could relate to Spider-Man. Heck, one of the goals of the Clone Saga and the Reboot was to get rid of the marriage, and they failed both times. Due to the films, however, MJ has been pretty cemented the idea that she's pivitol character in the Spider-Man mythos, and, as I've said before, the treatment Peter and MJ as a couple has been one of JMS' strong points during his run.

Ultimate MJ, however, has problems of her own. One of the biggest mistakes Bendis did when he started Ultimate Spider-Man, IMO, was to make her a science whiz like Peter--even though the only thing she did to suggest she lived up to her nickname "Brainy Janey" was to read a book, was once Peter's lab partner, and try to start a study group. As a result, she and Peter were set up as being too much alike, even though the reason why their relationship worked in the original comics was due to the fact they seemed like such opposites. Bendis sort of corrected this in Ultimate Spider-Man #13 in which he balanced the sweet girl-next-door with the 616's effervescence, but then he made the additional mistake of having them become a couple, when it would've been better to tease when Peter and MJ will ever get together a bit longer. For this reason, and the constant pattern of Peter and MJ breaking up and getting back together again is why most fans welcomed a relationship between Peter and Kitty Pryde (even though I believe that, like the relationship Peter had with the Black Cat, was the wrong move for Peter to make, as it looks like we're starting to see). Hopefully, Bendis can try to play the angle of Peter and MJ as friends but are in denial of their mutual attraction now, and even better have her start dating Mark Raxton and start becoming more of a party girl in a misguided attempt to get over Peter.

Can't say much about the MC2 MJ because I haven't followed that series much (and yes, I'm really, REALLY sorry about that ) but she seems like that's what the 616 version of the character would've naturally become and at least her daughter is alive in that universe.

Surprised no one has brought up Sean McKevver's treatment of MJ in his Mary Jane minis and Mary Jane Loves Spider-Man. Sure, it's fluff, but the way she is portrayed in that series is, to me anyway, what Ultimate MJ should've been from the start.

 

[ragingdemon155]

Well, ever since Peter and MJ were married in 616, some writers must of thought that her happy-go lucky, party girl personality must have made her unlikeable, never mind that her character had considerably deepened because of writers like Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, and Tom DeFlaco. So the powers that be at Marvel either tried to make her into nothing more than either "Mrs. Spider-Man" or your typical nagging cop's wife, who at one time contemplated an affair with a fellow actor and took up chain smoking because she didn't like her hubby being Spider-Man so much--even though that was partly why she was attracted to him in the first place. Yeah, real likeable :rolleyes. As a result, she's pretty much become the scapegoat for why Marvel believed nobody could relate to Spider-Man. Heck, one of the goals of the Clone Saga and the Reboot was to get rid of the marriage, and they failed both times. Due to the films, however, MJ has been pretty cemented the idea that she's pivitol character in the Spider-Man mythos, and, as I've said before, the treatment Peter and MJ as a couple has been one of JMS' strong points during his run.

Ultimate MJ, however, has problems of her own. One of the biggest mistakes Bendis did when he started Ultimate Spider-Man, IMO, was to make her a science whiz like Peter--even though the only thing she did to suggest she lived up to her nickname "Brainy Janey" was to read a book, was once Peter's lab partner, and try to start a study group. As a result, she and Peter were set up as being too much alike, even though the reason why their relationship worked in the original comics was due to the fact they seemed like such opposites. Bendis sort of corrected this in Ultimate Spider-Man #13 in which he balanced the sweet girl-next-door with the 616's effervescence, but then he made the additional mistake of having them become a couple, when it would've been better to tease when Peter and MJ will ever get together a bit longer. For this reason, and the constant pattern of Peter and MJ breaking up and getting back together again is why most fans welcomed a relationship between Peter and Kitty Pryde (even though I believe that, like the relationship Peter had with the Black Cat, was the wrong move for Peter to make, as it looks like we're starting to see). Hopefully, Bendis can try to play the angle of Peter and MJ as friends but are in denial of their mutual attraction now, and even better have her start dating Mark Raxton and start becoming more of a party girl in a misguided attempt to get over Peter.

Can't say much about the MC2 MJ because I haven't followed that series much (and yes, I'm really, REALLY sorry about that ) but she seems like that's what the 616 version of the character would've naturally become and at least her daughter is alive in that universe.

Surprised no one has brought up Sean McKevver's treatment of MJ in his Mary Jane minis and Mary Jane Loves Spider-Man. Sure, it's fluff, but the way she is portrayed in that series is, to me anyway, what Ultimate MJ should've been from the start.

I love the way Ultimate MJ is presented by Bendis. One of my favorite moments in the series is when she breaks up with Peter. The conversation they had was so powerful and the reasoning she gave Peter was great. I don't want her to become this "party girl". She tried that earlier and it didn't work out. I don't want her to become a spitting image of the 616 version of herself.

The one problem I do have is that I wish she had more panel time...same goes for 616 MJ.

 

[stillanerd]

I love the way Ultimate MJ is presented by Bendis. One of my favorite moments in the series is when she breaks up with Peter. The conversation they had was so powerful and the reasoning she gave Peter was great. I don't want her to become this "party girl". She tried that earlier and it didn't work out. I don't want her to become a spitting image of the 616 version of herself.

Fair enough. I just thought that MJ really didn't live up to her "Brainy Janey"
description. After Ultimate Spider-Man #13, however, Bendis seemed to find the right balance between the sweet girl-next-door and happy-go-lucky thrill seeker without her coming having her come across like a total airhead. However, I would think it would make for an interesting arc that, after Peter realizes that he still loves MJ when he and Kitty split, he tries to win her back. However, MJ seems to be moving on without him by being dragged further into the party scene thanks to Liz. Sure, she realized she wasn't a jet-setter thanks to "Dumped," but maybe because she thinks Peter has been dating Kitty and no longer seems to need her, perhaps she'll try to keep her mind off of him by "branching out."

The one problem I do have is that I wish she had more panel time...same goes for 616 MJ.

Even though in both Ultimate and 616 she's the prinicpal supporting character where others, especially the Daily Bugle staff and J. Jonah Jameson, have been virtually ignored? Not that I don't like MJ being Peter girl, mind you, I do, (although she's been pushed to the background thanks to Kitty) I just wish Bendis had more stories with Spidey and Jonah spats in Ultiamte. But oh, well, it's not supposed to be too much like 616.

 

[onceasaint]

I don't particularly like the idea of Brainy Janey in USM, but it was on the right track. Mary Jane shouldn't be a ditz. Her character is smart, just not as smart as Peter. She can't whip up a serum that will revert Lizard back in into Dr. Connors, but she is smart enough to help Pete see things that he misses. There was an issue of USM where MJ wrote up a list of everyone that knows his identity to help him out. Yeah, Peter acted like it was useless cause he was frustrated, but then it ended up being a good idea. I think thats how they should hand 616 MJ too. She's his anchor. You've got that Spider-god scrap, the Civil War thing, the Iron Spidey suit, a death & resurrection going on... she keeps him from getting lost in all that. They need to right her as a bit more clever. Maybe she eggs Peter on into an argument to prove a point or something. There are lots of options.

I think she could use a career change too. The Model/Acting thing... its too much attention. I'd like to see her grow up a bit and slowly make her way into something else, maybe connect her and Peter a bit more. What if she's doing a modeling shoot and the photographer is an idiot. She being familiar with how shoots go, sort of takes control and helps the shoot go along. Have her realize over the years she's learned a few things, and hasnt just been sitting there looking pretty. She tries out photography, borrowing Peter's camera. You can even give them some much needed couple time (without a horrible emergency/threat). She takes some pictures, maybe shoots a model friend and shows them to Peter. He's proud of her, thinking she's a natural. Then she could ask Peter for some tips. You get to have some solid bonding over something. She shouldnt depend on him too much, really just getting pointers, then have her do her own thing with that.

You can take that to a few different places. She can photograph models, practice over time and try a gallery type thing / website, or even pictures of heros for the Bugle (its not like she hasnt met a ton of heroes through Peter and the Avengers). The last option Im not too fond of considering itd raise a few problems regarding security of identities. The gallery/model shoots seem better to me, because you can always have Peter join her, and then they can have a source of income not dependent on Tony Stark or compromising Pete's identity (i.e. Parker always getting pics of Spidey and numerous sitings of Spidey with MJ, when people know shes married to Peter). The whole issue of them never having money or not having a place to live gets old. Let them have enough money to be comfortable, just not rich.

 

[Danalys]

you'd think peter and mj could talk about his transformation when he attacked morlun at some time.

it is better for mary jane now in some regards that she has the other avengers to talk to. perhaps she could fall out with cage and drew after the comments they've made at times.

 

[SpideyInATree]

From the sounds of Quesada in the latest Wizard MJ isn't going to be getting shafted anymore. She'll be getting the axe.