What is DC Entertainment doing? What is their plan?

[Drz]

Iron Man has proven to be a fluke. B-listers don't break 500 Million worldwide. Thor couldn't do it, and Green Lantern couldn't do it. Flash won't be able to do it.

The economy in 2008 and 2011 is a whole different story and 3D is a double edged sword, i'm just saying that in defense of Thor.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Well plus Iron Man had RDJ who is way more well known than Ryan and Chris.

 

[jmc]

Iron Man was bit like lightning caught in a bottle, it was just the right place, right time, right actor, had all the right ingredients. No-one expected it to be as big as it got, not even the most die hard of fans would have imagined the reception it got. And for those saying WB is losing market share in Superheroes, you keep forgetting WB isn't purely a superhero movie studio, Marvel is, WB agenda is completely different for their movies, they don't rely on superheroes, Marvel do, if the superhero craze ends in the next few years WB is still going to doing fine, Marvel Studios will be up **** creek with no paddle.

 

[merced]

The answer after a movie that bombed as hard as Green Lantern isn't to take another b-lister like Flash and stick him in a 200 Million dollar movie with a 100-150 million dollar advertising budget. The answer is to play it safe, at least for a few years.

But how do they play it safe?

Keep putting out a Batman film every 2 years?

That won't work IMO.

Superman is likely lost to WB. Few think there will be a resolution to the lawsuit before the heirs terminate in mid-2013. If that happens Superman will be frozen in legal limbo for a decade or more and no one will be able to print comics or make movies about him.

WB only has Batman after 2012 and needs to leverage him to launch these other characters.

Nolan will be gone after TDKR so whomever takes over the immediate Batman re-boot will be expected, I guess, to be open to Batman pairings. Say Batman and GL or whomever.

Sort of a World's Finest just w/o Supes.

How do you see WB playing it safe?

 

[akfj]

Iron Man was bit like lightning caught in a bottle, it was just the right place, right time, right actor, had all the right ingredients. No-one expected it to be as big as it got, not even the most die hard of fans would have imagined the reception it got.

All of this makes me wonder how different things would be today if New Line Cinema had been able to release their Iron Man film years ago and still had the rights to that character.

 

[Metallo]

Iron Man was bit like lightning caught in a bottle, it was just the right place, right time, right actor, had all the right ingredients. No-one expected it to be as big as it got, not even the most die hard of fans would have imagined the reception it got. And for those saying WB is losing market share in Superheroes, you keep forgetting WB isn't purely a superhero movie studio, Marvel is, WB agenda is completely different for their movies, they don't rely on superheroes, Marvel do, if the superhero craze ends in the next few years WB is still going to doing fine, Marvel Studios will be up **** creek with no paddle.

I agree. DC comics film adaptations aren't a high priority for WB because its not their sole source for films. In think WB sees it much as any other resource to be exploited (not in any kind of bad way) but they just don't take it seriously enough to be concerned as much over quality than they are over making movies that strive to bring in the masses. That means stuff thats easy for the general audience to digest. Thats why Green Lantern seemed so "made by committee"

A lot could have gone wrong with Iron Man. There was a lot of on the fly stuff done in that movie but it was a perfect storm that came together and worked. Not so much for Iron Man 2 but it was still successful.

I look at Green Lantern as WB's attempt to sort of copy the Iron man formula in many ways when they didn't quite realize what made Iron Man work or that a lot of it was pure ingenuity on the part of the people that made Iron Man that can't just be recreated as part of a formula.

 

[jmc]

Here's what WB need to do, they need to let people come to them with the ideas for superheroes, at the moment they are trying to force the issue, they made GL simply because IM was a hit not because Martin Campbell came to them with the concept. Batman Begins worked so well because they took their time and waited until the right man came along with the right idea, they went through several different treatments before Nolan came along.

 

[merced]

A lot could have gone wrogn with Iron Man. There was a lot of on the fly stuff done in that movie but it was a perfect storm that came together and worked,. Not so much for Iron Man 2 but it was still successful.

I look at Green Lantern as WB's attempt to sort of copy the Iron man formula in many ways when they didn't quite realize what made Iron Man work or that a lot of it was pure ingenuity on the part of the people that made Iron Man that can't just be recreated as part of a formula.

Some of this is indeed perfect storm stuff. The right team at the right time.

But it's more than that. Marvel has had too many successes - and IMO Cap is going be lots bigger than Thor, just you wait, - that there are other elements too.

WB is failing at some key level here IMO. The million dollar question is what is that point at which they are failing?

It's not enough to give free reign to a producer. Singer got total freedom and yet the casting for SR was one of the worst in film history - from Routh to Bosworth to Huntington and, yes, even Spacey.

It's a weird creative dynamic between total freedom and movie by committee that Marvel seems to hit on as often as not.

 

[Metallo]

I definitely think they shouldn't just rush in to make a movie. They should hire someone talented and hammer out a great script no matter how long it takes. Then hire people suited to work on the production.

Nolan's Batman films have a lot of time and care put into crafting quality scripts and then he goes from there. He makes sure its something the public will be interested in while at the same time trying not to compromise the integrity of the story.

I think with Nolan he doesn't underestimate the audience as much as WB has with other movies. You can make something smart that still appeals to many.

Jonah Hex should have turned out much better than it did. WB overcomplicated it by not thinking the idea could work as it was (closer to the tone of the comic book character).

I remember watching the DC animated short and thinking it was more compelling and more engaging than the live action movie without compromising the tone of the the character.

Green Lantern likewise didn't need to be dark but it should have been a little more clever, a little more full of depth. Instead if was made like a tongue in cheek 90's comic book movie when it should have strove for a balance.

Over 30 years later I still think Superman The Movie found a better balance between reverence and levity than Green lantern did. its not the same for each character but its always important to hit that sweet spot.

Some of this is indeed perfect storm stuff. The right team at the right time.

But it's more than that. Marvel has had too many successes - and IMO Cap is going be lots bigger than Thor, just you wait, - that there are other elements too.

WB is failing at some key level here IMO. The million dollar question is what is that point at which they are failing?

It's not enough to give free reign to a producer. Singer got total freedom and yet the casting for SR was one of the worst in film history - from Routh to Bosworth to Huntington and, yes, even Spacey.

It's a weird creative dynamic between total freedom and movie by committee that Marvel seems to hit on as often as not.

Well when you say "Marvel" you mean Marvel studios. They have had more successes in recent years but its not that many. So far of the 4 films they have released i thought 3 were very good and one was ok but flawed. Thats 3 good, films (2 of which were VERY successful financially) compared to WB's two films which were critical and commercial success over the last few years. Marvel studios has just had more diversity of character in its successful films. 2 or 3 to WB's 1.

Other Marvel characters have had more success on films because more studios (Sony, Fox, New Line, etc.) have released more films. That increases the chance that we'd see more good films even though we've seen some that aren't so good as well.

With Marvel Studios at the time they had to MAKE SURE their two films (Iron man and The Incredible Hulk) were as good as possible. A lot was riding on it. WB has no such "need" to make sure their films are of such high quality. They can afford to take risks. The make many kinds of movies, only a handful of which happen to be about comics, while marvel studios only makes comic book films. Its their focus.

 

[jmc]

Some of this is indeed perfect storm stuff. The right team at the right time.

But it's more than that. Marvel has had too many successes - and IMO Cap is going be lots bigger than Thor, just you wait, - that there are other elements too.

WB is failing at some key level here IMO. The million dollar question is what is that point at which they are failing?

It's not enough to give free reign to a producer. Singer got total freedom and yet the casting for SR was one of the worst in film history - from Routh to Bosworth to Huntington and, yes, even Spacey.

It's a weird creative dynamic between total freedom and movie by committee that Marvel seems to hit on as often as not.

Marvel have made 4 films and are 2/2, lets be honest, people keep making out as if Marvel have perfected the process, just because they haven't had a 'flop' doesn't mean everything they've done is great, behind the scenes they've had some dodgy dealings with actors and directors, and IM2 and Hulk were less than spectacular to say the least, they will eventually have a flop. WB 'failings' is that they don't need to rely on superheroes, Marvel, by shear nature of the type of films they're making they have to at the very least make passable films. This is kinda why they lack ambition in their films stories, they can't really afford to chance their arm.

 

[Metallo]

Also, and this is just my opinion, but I don't think Superman Returns had the worst casting across the board for a comic book movie ever.

The only truly miscast person in the film was Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane, particularly because of where the character was supposed to be in her life at the time.

Sam Huntington ranks well among most of the other Jimmy Olsens and if anything he captured the same spirit Jack Larson and Marc McClure brought to the role. Jimmy's sort of a nice kid/goofball who has ambitions but can be easily awestruck by Superman. I thought Huntington captured that.

Frank Langella didn't give is the typical portrayal of Perry White but that was easily more because of the way the character was written and he was directed than Langellas skill or look. The guys a great actor. If he could turn in such a scene stealing over the type performance as Skeletor then I'm sure he could have delivered a blustery Perry White.

I've seen comic book films with far worse dodgy casting.

I thought Brandon Routh was a better fit for Superman than Ryan Reynolds was for Hal Jordan or Halle Berry was for Storm.

Superman Returns is a flawed movie (not terrible but its got a lot of problems) but it wasn't so much the casting as it was the script. Thats just MY opinion of course.

 

[REDophile]

But how do they play it safe?

Keep putting out a Batman film every 2 years?

That won't work IMO.

Agreed, TDKR next year is the last hurrah for Nolan and WB/DC would be wise not to tamper with Batman after that, at least not for a long time. Just because GL bombed doesn't mean the strategy should be Batman is the only hope as a DC film franchise. Perhaps Man of Steel will be a hit, we'll see.

A) WB will be done with Harry Potter after this year and will still be in search of the next blockbuster franchise.
B) Marvel will continue churning out film material, so fishing out more of DC is still an easy strategy, though perhaps GL isn't the answer.

Again, you don't need to make a huge, epic $200 million Flash movie.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I still say Superman can be huge. I frankly don't see the logic that Flash has a chance of being huge, but Superman can't.

Iron Man has proven to be a fluke. B-listers don't break 500 Million worldwide. Thor couldn't do it, and Green Lantern couldn't do it. Flash won't be able to do it.

Wonder Woman is like Captain America in that she's iconic, and A-list but has some baggage/ no one really knows much about her except her name and what she looks like. The brutal truth about Wonderwoman though is that action movies with a female protagonist don't make 500 Million dollars. Even though I'm a marvel fan, I think there's no way in hell Cap breaks 500 M either.

So either DC A) makes a Justice League Film B) makes lower budget movies for Flash, WW, Aquaman etc (125 Million budget max; preferably lower) C) they stick with Superman and Batman or D) All of the above.

The answer after a movie that bombed as hard as Green Lantern isn't to take another b-lister like Flash and stick him in a 200 Million dollar movie with a 100-150 million dollar advertising budget. The answer is to play it safe, at least for a few years.

I agree.

Iron Man was bit like lightning caught in a bottle, it was just the right place, right time, right actor, had all the right ingredients. No-one expected it to be as big as it got, not even the most die hard of fans would have imagined the reception it got. And for those saying WB is losing market share in Superheroes, you keep forgetting WB isn't purely a superhero movie studio, Marvel is, WB agenda is completely different for their movies, they don't rely on superheroes, Marvel do, if the superhero craze ends in the next few years WB is still going to doing fine, Marvel Studios will be up **** creek with no paddle.

Exactly. Marvel Studios puts everything into each of their films and linking each of the films together, because they have to. Not only does Marvel Studios not have Marvel Comics' best selling and most popular franchises, they have to compete against them. They are honest to God lucky there hasn't been a Spider-Man film since their inception, and only one X-Men film. It's like joining a card game after being the dealer and dealing all the good cards to other players. They have nothing to fall back on, because the only characters they have left are the second-stringers, so they have to link the films together so that people will go see the next one so that they can stay afloat. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a product of that.

I agree. DC comics film adaptations aren't a high priority for WB because its not their sole source for films. In think WB sees it much as any other resource to be exploited (not in any kind of bad way) but they just don't take it seriously enough to be concerned as much over quality than they are over making movies that strive to bring in the masses. That means stuff thats easy for the general audience to digest. Thats why Green Lantern seemed so "made by committee"

A lot could have gone wrong with Iron Man. There was a lot of on the fly stuff done in that movie but it was a perfect storm that came together and worked. Not so much for Iron Man 2 but it was still successful.

I look at Green Lantern as WB's attempt to sort of copy the Iron man formula in many ways when they didn't quite realize what made Iron Man work or that a lot of it was pure ingenuity on the part of the people that made Iron Man that can't just be recreated as part of a formula.

Agreed.

Here's what WB need to do, they need to let people come to them with the ideas for superheroes, at the moment they are trying to force the issue, they made GL simply because IM was a hit not because Martin Campbell came to them with the concept. Batman Begins worked so well because they took their time and waited until the right man came along with the right idea, they went through several different treatments before Nolan came along.

I agree. Especially with the second stringers, there's not much harm in waiting for someone who has a solid vision and idea for what they want to do with that franchise.

I definitely think they shouldn't just rush in to make a movie. They should hire someone talented and hammer out a great script no matter how long it takes. Then hire people suited to work on the production.

Nolan's Batman films have a lot of time and care put into crafting quality scripts and then he goes from there. He makes sure its something the public will be interested in while at the same time trying not to compromise the integrity of the story.

I think with Nolan he doesn't underestimate the audience as much as WB has with other movies. You can make something smart that still appeals to many.

Jonah Hex should have turned out much better than it did. WB overcomplicated it by not thinking the idea could work as it was (closer to the tone of the comic book character).

I remember watching the DC animated short and thinking it was more compelling and more engaging than the live action movie without compromising the tone of the the character.

Green Lantern likewise didn't need to be dark but it should have been a little more clever, a little more full of depth. Instead if was made like a tongue in cheek 90's comic book movie when it should have strove for a balance.

Over 30 years later I still think Superman The Movie found a better balance between reverence and levity than Green lantern did. its not the same for each character but its always important to hit that sweet spot.




Well when you say "Marvel" you mean Marvel studios. They have had more successes in recent years but its not that many. So far of the 4 films they have released i thought 3 were very good and one was ok but flawed. Thats 3 good, films (2 of which were VERY successful financially) compared to WB's two films which were critical and commercial success over the last few years. Marvel studios has just had more diversity of character in its successful films. 2 or 3 to WB's 1.

Other Marvel characters have had more success on films because more studios (Sony, Fox, New Line, etc.) have released more films. That increases the chance that we'd see more good films even though we've seen some that aren't so good as well.

With Marvel Studios at the time they had to MAKE SURE their two films (Iron man and The Incredible Hulk) were as good as possible. A lot was riding on it. WB has no such "need" to make sure their films are of such high quality. They can afford to take risks. The make many kinds of movies, only a handful of which happen to be about comics, while marvel studios only makes comic book films. Its their focus.

Agreed.

 

[REDophile]

With Marvel Studios at the time they had to MAKE SURE their two films (Iron man and The Incredible Hulk) were as good as possible. A lot was riding on it. WB has no such "need" to make sure their films are of such high quality. They can afford to take risks. The make many kinds of movies, only a handful of which happen to be about comics, while marvel studios only makes comic book films. Its their focus.

Its true that WB is not solely a DC superhero studio as Marvel is, but they need a new franchise to replace Harry Potter. From how its fared it looks like GL won't be it. Not Batman either since Nolan is done after TDKR. At the same time, there isn't much further point in the foundation of DCE without expanding the roster of DC characters on film. The DC brand is just fine in live action tv, animation, merchandise etc., its solo films where they are way behind. From how GL has come out, its clear more work needs to be done. If DCE is there to improve the DC brand, start with live action film. If they stall solo adaptations for Flash, WW etc., there is not much point to DCE.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

It all starts at the top, IMO. DC not only needs a Kevin Feige who will give DCE's movie projects direction and vision, but also political savvy to stave off WB's corporate wolves. Till then, their projects are going to keep on going nowhere.

 

[WildcatNC]

DC Entertainment is now its own entity to handle those properties just like Marvel Studios is a Disney subsidiary now. They are both studios owned by larger companies with other interests.


Marvel still makes money off of Spiderman and X-Men. They don't really "compete" against them. If you check the Marvel site they were doing promotions for XMFC as well as Cap and Thor. They didn't start the Captain America promotions in full swing until XMFC had its time in the limelight either. They still work with those other studios to promote their properties.

I hope Man of Steel does well. I'd also like to see a Flash movie. I don't have confidence in DCE like I do Marvel Studios though. I actually didn't think Green Lantern was nearly as bad as its made out either.

We'll see what their next move is. If its not Flash then they are making a mistake. I've even heard of a Hawkman movie. That would be a HARD translation to the big screen imo.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Yeah, I really don't get why so many people didn't like Green Lantern. It's really bizarre for me. I'm starting to wonder if this is what it feels like to be one of those people who inexplicably liked Ang Lee's Hulk or Superman Returns (both of which I detested)?

 

[WildcatNC]

Yeah, I really don't get why so many people didn't like Green Lantern. It's really bizarre for me. I'm starting to wonder if this is what it feels like to be one of those people who inexplicably liked Ang Lee's Hulk or Superman Returns (both of which I detested)?

That just might be t:


I didn't hate either of them but they were mediocre at best. I had heard all the negative stuff about GL but I thought it was average but not great. I don't understand all the hate really. It was OK.

Marvel has made up for Ang Lee's version since though. TIH is underrated as hell imo. It has one of the best re-watch values of any comic movie.

 

[jmc]

DC Entertainment is now its own entity to handle those properties just like Marvel Studios is a Disney subsidiary now. They are both studios owned by larger companies with other interests.


Marvel still makes money off of Spiderman and X-Men. They don't really "compete" against them. If you check the Marvel site they were doing promotions for XMFC as well as Cap and Thor. They didn't start the Captain America promotions in full swing until XMFC had its time in the limelight either. They still work with those other studios to promote their properties.

I hope Man of Steel does well. I'd also like to see a Flash movie. I don't have confidence in DCE like I do Marvel Studios though. I actually didn't think Green Lantern was nearly as bad as its made out either.

We'll see what their next move is. If its not Flash then they are making a mistake. I've even heard of a Hawkman movie. That would be a HARD translation to the big screen imo.

DC Entertainment is not a studio and and the situation is not comparable to Marvel. WB is the film studio, DCE is responsible for selling and marketing their character line up across multiple platforms but has no say as to how or when a film is released. DC has never had any say in the running of WB superhero films. Marvel Studios was an independent studio that Disney acquired as part of their purchase of Marvel.

 

[WildcatNC]

DC Entertainment is not a studio and and the situation is not comparable to Marvel. WB is the film studio, DCE is responsible for selling and marketing their character line up across multiple platforms but has no say as to how or when a film is released. DC has never had any say in the running of WB superhero films. Marvel Studios was an independent studio that Disney acquired as part of their purchase of Marvel.

If thats the case then I stand corrected. I'm glad Disney was smart enough to let Marvel keep doing its thing rather than micromanage them into doom, much like WB seems to be doing.

 

[Octoberist]

It just seems like DC ad WB ate never on the same page.

 

[Captain Marvel]

That just might be t:

I didn't hate either of them but they were mediocre at best. I had heard all the negative stuff about GL but I thought it was average but not great. I don't understand all the hate really. It was OK.

Marvel has made up for Ang Lee's version since though. TIH is underrated as hell imo. It has one of the best re-watch values of any comic movie.

Dear God in Heaven. I've become the very thing I've mocked for so long.

I read all the negative reviews beforehand and very nearly didn't go see it because of them (The same happened with Superman Returns. I decided against going to see it because of the reviews. I knew I'd made the right choice when I later saw it on DVD). My brother still wanted to see it, though, so we went and we both absolutely loved it. So yeah, I am dumbfounded, as we both thought it was awesome (And he's not a comic reader, so he had no expectations). This has been a pretty good year for me as far as comic movies. Thor, X-Men: First Class, and then Green Lantern. I thought they were all fantastic. Now for Captain America.

Agreed about The Incredible Hulk. I loved that movie, too, and really wish they'd get started on a sequel. Unfortunately they really killed it for me by getting rid of Edward Norton. It's just not going to be the same seeing Mark Ruffalo in the role.

 

[jmc]

If thats the case then I stand corrected. I'm glad Disney was smart enough to let Marvel keep doing its thing rather than micromanage them into doom, much like WB seems to be doing.

A better analogy is Pixar who Disney bought but has remained independent, time will tell however if Marvel will be given the same luxury.

 

[merced]

I was reading at another site that GL's underperformance is a ghood thing for the heirs in the rights case.

The idea being that all WB has now franchise-wise is Batman.

If Man of Steel does well - I know a big if - then the heirs can demand even more from WB in license feees and a cut of the profit knowing that they control whether or not MOS gets a sequel.

It's out of WB's hands anyways but the GL situation is going to strengthen the heirs position.

 

[akfj]

Just wondering, but why are you so negative throughout various threads when it comes to WB and Superman, and the court case?