What is more meaningless? Suffering or pleasure?

[jaguarr]

Exactly, its the way of the world. Ask any American Indian.

It's still happening. Identity theft is a result of it. The thousands of cameras strung across various cities around the world, watching people's every move is a result of it. The dominance of military forces in possession of advanced weaponry is a result of it. The instances of it are endless not just today, but throughout history (as you alluded to in your example). While technology has many, many beneficial attributes, human beings will invariably find a way to use it to harm their fellow man. It's in our nature, as history shows.

jag

 

[raybia]

What the hell is the point of suffering or even pleasure? All memories eventually fade. The space you occupy now will eventually be engulfed by the sun. Is there any reason why we must endure suffering, why we must pursue pleasure?

Why exist at all? Why don't we just kill ourselves?

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I voted for pleasure.Its not often that one can get pleasure,usually both partners have to be willing for it.On the contrary,suffering is rather easy to get and everyone experiences it atleast once in their life.That is why pleasure is useless.

 

[raybia]

There is a point to both and you cannot appreciate and respect one without the other.

 

[blind_fury]

Technology is only for the people that can afford it.

And how can a theory of growing population causing suffering be proved wrong with a certain number of people? It is estimated that the world's populalation will double in the next 50 years and that is when you will see a problem.

It's easy to predict more people in the future but what about advances in technology and social sciences? Can you predict how those things will effect 12 billion people?

The population is going to peak in many places then start to go down. Plus advances in science will make life easier for most people not harder. You're predicting armageddon the same way people thought the Y2K bug was going to be the end of the world. lol.

 

[Darthphere]

This thread is making me suffer thus, it shall be deemed meaningless.

 

[jaguarr]

The population is going to peak in many places then start to go down. Plus advances in science will make life easier for most people not harder. You're predicting armageddon the same way people thought the Y2K bug was going to be the end of the world. lol.

But you're predicting that the population will decline in critical areas that will ease the issues that extreme overpopulation can bring without any real basis for doing so just as arbirtrarily.

jag

 

[blind_fury]

if we knew where evolution would eventually take and leave us, then we would use technology to get their faster, however this knowledge is unknown to us as it depends on are surroundings and many other aspects. All we can do is stay on the ride and see where it takes us and hope our inputs make the journey faster whether good or bad. by that time we shall cease to exist and all we can do is hope humanity gets to its destination safely.

Is it a destination or an endless cycle? *sigh*

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

well that depends on what your theories are on the future of the universe

 

[blind_fury]

Exactly, its the way of the world. Ask any American Indian.

That was before Walmart and McDonalds. Now we're all batteries in a matrix.

 

[blind_fury]

Why exist at all? Why don't we just kill ourselves?

Why don't we? The planet would last longer.

 

[Darthphere]

Why don't we? The planet would last longer.

Ok, you go first.

 

[Danalys]

The word red is meaningless without describing something because it hasn't been attatched to a meaning. That's not to say the meaning wouldn't exist if it wasn't attatched to some word.

meaning can exist with out a word being atttached. but the meaning of the word is created as the word is. it was just an example.

this reminds me of the tree falling in the woods making a sound or not. lets say you hear the tree fall. you hear a specific sound and through experience know that a tree has fallen. a connection has been made between the sound and the tree. now if a human doesn't hear that sound does the sound mean that a tree has fallen. if we later find the fallen tree we still know it fell without hearing the sound.

anyway to me making the connections is creating the meaning. anyway i don't think we are getting any where with this conversation really.

 

[blind_fury]

Ok, you go first.

I'll stay behind and feed the cats and dogs.

 

[raybia]

Why don't we? The planet would last longer.

Why would should humanity give a damn about the Earth if we don't exist? That is not logical.

However if the planet is our home and our source of subsistence then we have every reason to be its caretaker.

Since I exist, instead of questioning why I do, I'm going to take advantage of my existence to live the best possible life.

Of course I want my life to be pleasurable but I also know that there are limits that I have to enforce with my pleasure principle as indulging into things taboo can be harmful to my existence.

As far as suffering, since my drives both seek pleasure and avoidance of suffering, my intellegence should tell me to avoid things that would cause suffering. If I experience suffering from an external source, I should do all I can to get out of that situation.

Hopefully, any suffering that I experience will make me a better and strong person and help me to appreciate the good things in life.

 

[Darthphere]

I'll stay behind and feed the cats and dogs.

They dont need you, they survived long before you, they will survive long after you. Kill yourself, and ill follow.

 

[KingOfDreams]

So from a Buddhist perspective, why can't all the suffering and pleasure be avoided? Why can't we be born into nirivana? Would the universe collapse into itself or something?

I'm not sure why we can't be born into Nirvana. It's probably because Nirvana is not a physical thing and we are physical beings. And because of that we have to work towards Nirvana. But the Buddha achieved Nirvana when he was alive, which is rare almost to the point of being impossible. Even the Dalai Lama has not attained living Nirvana.