The Avengers What sort of MARKETING does THE AVENGERS need to bring in the GA that are not fans?

[Godzilla2000]

I find Twilight one of the s***st franchises ever but the money it gets come from Fan girls that love it and Thot is begining to get the same love which is a good thing

I do not begrudge anyone their fantasy fodder, but that said I really am not fond of the Twilight series at all. You would think that I, a moderate Goth would be all into the Vampire romance stuff, but I'm not. I've never really been into vampires at all. I've always been more into wolves and that sort of stuff. And quite frankly, I view Twilight as not on my level of age maturity in that I'm not going to associate well with High School/College aged dramas because I'm pushing 40 here. Now troubled Norse Gods I can get into because at least Loki has more of a legitimate reason to be angst ridden seeing as how he was never told the truth about his existence which has nothing to do with sparkling in the sunlight.

 

[cherokeesam]

Wow, Cherokeesam. I thought the "BO for THE AVENGERS would be the average of the individual heroes films" was a monumentally stupid statement (and it was). However comparing what we saw in FF2 and gl (clouds kinda destroying Earth) to THE AVENGERS actually comes close to beating it for sheer ludicrousness.

Translation:

Shadowlord X: "I am mentally incapable of generating a rational response to reasoned debate, and cannot muster an adequate reply to your point; therefore, I'll just sit here and call you names and insult your intelligence, and maybe question your ancestry."

ho-kay, thanks for the effort, though

 

[Godzilla2000]

Ah, please! No more arguments! Think of the poor little Mogwai!

 

[KangConquers]

Hsx.com has Avengers projected @ a 50 million dollar lead over ASM...and just 2 m below Hobbit for #2 of 2012. The numbers might change but I guarantee that Avengers will be a top 3 movie next year, which means no less than 800 m.

 

[Lord]

I think that with Iron man fans, thor fans, Loki fangirls, Cap fans, hulk fans, scarlet johanson fans, comic book fans and disney's name on the film this is going to be no 1 in the box office that year

 

[NickNitro]

I agree that alone the fans still made these movies do well but together!

"With your powers combined I........AM CAPTAIN BOX OFFICE!"

No other film has taken the leads from other movies and combined them into one awesome film (except of course The Expendables ).

This is like taking all the LOTR fans and HP fans and making a movie where Gandalf and Dumbledore battle for wizard supremacy!

 

[Godzilla2000]

Gandalf would win.

 

[Lord]

Nope, Dumbledore would kick his ass.
But when Freddy vs Jason was released it made twice of what any Friday the 13th or nightmare on elm street movie had ever made

 

[Dark Raven]

I agree that alone the fans still made these movies do well but together!

"With your powers combined I........AM CAPTAIN BOX OFFICE!"

No other film has taken the leads from other movies and combined them into one awesome film (except of course The Expendables ).

This is like taking all the LOTR fans and HP fans and making a movie where Gandalf and Dumbledore battle for wizard supremacy!

Well, there was Alien vs Predator. I don't know how well that did.

Also, back in the 70s, I don't seem to recall whether there were two separate movies starring Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep respectively, both called Kramer, that were combined into the Oscar winning movie, Kramer vs Kramer.

 

[The Morningstar]

I think it's too early to be making predictions really. Wait til the first trailer hits, then see what's what.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Nope, Dumbledore would kick his ass.

Nuh uh you poopy crouton face!

Also, back in the 70s, I don't seem to recall whether there were two separate movies starring Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep respectively, both called Kramer, that were combined into the Oscar winning movie, Kramer vs Kramer.

I hear this is what happens when two Kramers both love each other very much.

 

[Lord]

LotR was better than Harry Potter but Dumbledore is stronger than Gandalf

 

[Godzilla2000]

LotR was better than Harry Potter but Dumbledore is stronger than Gandalf

Gandalf the Grey maybe, but not Gandalf the White. Besides, Dumbledore is a mortal while Gandalf is a Maiar, which is Middle Earth's version of an Angel. Gandalf is merely the fleshly vessel which can be resurrected by Illuvatar if he feels he is still needed on Middle Earth. That is why Gandalf came back as Gandalf the White after he defeated the Balrog, who is a Maiar as well.

 

[cherokeesam]

I think that with Iron man fans, thor fans, Loki fangirls, Cap fans, hulk fans, scarlet johanson fans, comic book fans and disney's name on the film this is going to be no 1 in the box office that year

Not a chance.

Like Kang mentioned above, it could easily become #3 for 2012 behind TDKR and The Hobbit; but I could also see it battling hard for that 3rd spot with Spidey Redux and the Twi-Tweenies saga. (And I still look for Prometheus, MIB III and Hunger Games to be the sleepers....any one of those could break out to surprisingly huge numbers.)

I *am* curious to see what Disney's marketing strategy will be for the movie, though. I'm betting that one of the things they'll do different from Marvel Studios' marketing campaigns is that they'll lay off the 30-second snippets and teasers that practically revealed the entire plots of all the Marvel movies before....I think that Disney, instead, will rely on a coupla three really epic theatrical trailers and one or two promo scenes for the talk show circuit, and that's it as far as footage reveals.

Well, there was Alien vs Predator. I don't know how well that did.

Also, back in the 70s, I don't seem to recall whether there were two separate movies starring Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep respectively, both called Kramer, that were combined into the Oscar winning movie, Kramer vs Kramer.

No to Kramer vs. Kramer, but there's also been Freddy vs. Jason, the CSI shows, Law and Order, Doctor Who, Stargate, Star Trek, Hercules and Xena, the Happy Days spinoffs, Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, and most of the Kevin Smith movies. Characters cameo and walk-on VERY often in TV shows that share the same producer(s), so you have "shared mini-universes" for everything from Cheers to Friends to Magnum PI and Everybody Loves Raymond. In olden times, crossover characters were *very* common in cheap horror flicks (Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man, Abbot and Costello Meet Frankenstein, Frankenstein and Dracula Meet The Fockers....well, maybe not that last one) and all the Godzilla kaiju films.

Also, Whedon himself has also dabbled in crossover characters and plots between his Buffy and Angel TV shows. Plus, you've seen all-star ensembles from fiction in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and the old murder mystery spoof Murder By Death.

Also, google Richard Belzer as Detective John Munch. He *is* Teh Crossover King.

Crossovers are extremely common. In everything from movies to TV to video games to comics to anime. That's why I don't know why people make The Avengers out to be a big deal, or "TEH FIRSTEST," when it's nothing of the sort. We all know that the Marvel Universe has *always* been a shared universe...it's just taken Hollywood fifty someodd years to catch up with us.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, I was joking about Kramer vs Kramer.

 

[KangConquers]

Not a chance.

Like Kang mentioned above, it could easily become #3 for 2012 behind TDKR and The Hobbit; but I could also see it battling hard for that 3rd spot with Spidey Redux and the Twi-Tweenies saga. (And I still look for Prometheus, MIB III and Hunger Games to be the sleepers....any one of those could break out to surprisingly huge numbers.)

Right now, this is how I'm seeing 2012 playing out domestically (foreign markets are tough to gauge cause you have to individually gauge the way a film will play out in each continent individually. Every film has a unique box office model.):

Top 5:

01. The Dark Knight Rises- $400 Million
02. The Hobbit- $365 M
03. The Avengers- $350 M
04. Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn, Part 2- $315 M
05. Amazing Spider-Man- $290 M

Next year with continued growth from foreign box office markets, I predict we'll see 40/60 splits between dom/ foreign become the standard, with established franchises drawing 30/70 splits. So while Avengers could do $350 M domestic, and my predicted $875 M total, Amazing Spider-Man with a $290 M domestic could near a Billion dollars WW.

it's a tough numbers game, and Avengers does have 2 strikes against it: it's a superhero film, and it's not a sequel (usually 50/50 splits). However, the film also has event movie status going for it, and disaster movie status (usually much more successful overseas than in the states.) I see Avengers doing roughly half a billion, maybe a little more, in foreign markets.

 

[Shadowlord X]

Right now, this is how I'm seeing 2012 playing out domestically (foreign markets are tough to gauge cause you have to individually gauge the way a film will play out in each continent individually. Every film has a unique box office model.):

Top 5:

01. The Dark Knight Rises- $400 Million
02. The Hobbit- $365 M
03. The Avengers- $350 M
04. Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn, Part 2- $315 M
05. Amazing Spider-Man- $290 M

Next year with continued growth from foreign box office markets, I predict we'll see 40/60 splits between dom/ foreign become the standard, with established franchises drawing 30/70 splits. So while Avengers could do $350 M domestic, and my predicted $875 M total, Amazing Spider-Man with a $290 M domestic could near a Billion dollars WW.

it's a tough numbers game, and Avengers does have 2 strikes against it: it's a superhero film, and it's not a sequel (usually 50/50 splits). However, the film also has event movie status going for it, and disaster movie status (usually much more successful overseas than in the states.) I see Avengers doing roughly half a billion, maybe a little more, in foreign markets.

This sounds quite realistic to me.

 

[cherokeesam]

Right now, this is how I'm seeing 2012 playing out domestically (foreign markets are tough to gauge cause you have to individually gauge the way a film will play out in each continent individually. Every film has a unique box office model.):

Top 5:

01. The Dark Knight Rises- $400 Million
02. The Hobbit- $365 M
03. The Avengers- $350 M
04. Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn, Part 2- $315 M
05. Amazing Spider-Man- $290 M

Next year with continued growth from foreign box office markets, I predict we'll see 40/60 splits between dom/ foreign become the standard, with established franchises drawing 30/70 splits. So while Avengers could do $350 M domestic, and my predicted $875 M total, Amazing Spider-Man with a $290 M domestic could near a Billion dollars WW.

it's a tough numbers game, and Avengers does have 2 strikes against it: it's a superhero film, and it's not a sequel (usually 50/50 splits). However, the film also has event movie status going for it, and disaster movie status (usually much more successful overseas than in the states.) I see Avengers doing roughly half a billion, maybe a little more, in foreign markets.

Sounds like a pretty reasonable assessment of '12's numbers to me.

I think Spidey Redux will be an all or nothing, though....either audiences will embrace the new Parker, or they'll reject him whole cloth. If there's a backlash, I don't even see Spidey making the Top 10. But if Garfield makes bank, then I see Spidey at #4 or even #3 --- hence the Avengers vs. Spidey battle I mentioned before.

 

[KangConquers]

I think it's worth noting that I'm not really proposing that Avengers will gather attendees out of thin air; rather, a $350 M gross for Avengers domestically with the 3-D mark up applied to 40% of the tickets (Using Captain America's figures) would actually imply a loss of viewership from IM2 to Avengers.

The growth from Iron Man 2's $315 Million foreign to my predicted $500-525 Million foreign for Avengers is based first on taking the best performance in each territory for a Marvel movie. Keep in mind that wasn't always Iron Man 2. Cap and Thor did outperform IM2 in certain limited International territories, which would expand our base number (based primarily on IM2's shoulders, but bolstered by his bretheren) to about $330 Million dollars as a base.

Add standard sequel growth in a foreign market, General inflation + availability in 3-D, general growth in foreign film markets, and event movie status, and it's not impossible to see Avengers doing roughly half a billion in the international market.

 

[Docker2.0]

Call me crazy but I don't think TDKR will be the #1 movie next year. I'd say Hobbit or the Avengers(due to release date)or even that Twilight crap will be number one. People are really underestimating the Joker(who is a A list character in itself, as well as Ledger's death)into the equation.

 

[cherokeesam]

Call me crazy but I don't think TDKR will be the #1 movie next year. I'd say Hobbit or the Avengers(due to release date)or even that Twilight crap will be number one. People are really underestimating the Joker(who is a A list character in itself, as well as Ledger's death)into the equation.

I agree with you that TDK's success was almost entirely due to The Joker (and not necessarily Heath's portrayal, but just the character in general). And I strongly believe that TDKR will not post numbers anywhere close to TDK's numbers. But I think the Nolanite hype wagon is inevitable on opening week.....TDKR may bust opening weekend records, but the dropoff will probably be substantial the following week as the Nolannerds realize that Bane and Catwoman don't even come close to all the soundbytes and quotables of WHY SO SRS???

 

[Liam_H]

I agree with you that TDK's success was almost entirely due to The Joker (and not necessarily Heath's portrayal, but just the character in general). And I strongly believe that TDKR will not post numbers anywhere close to TDK's numbers. But I think the Nolanite hype wagon is inevitable on opening week.....TDKR may bust opening weekend records, but the dropoff will probably be substantial the following week as the Nolannerds realize that Bane and Catwoman don't even come close to all the soundbytes and quotables of WHY SO SRS???

What? Yes, the success of TDK had a great deal to with The Joker but you make it sound like the rest of the movie is far below it. Ledger had a huge part in the big opening weekend but the overall quality of the movie itself was still praised. That's why it dropped pretty minimal over the subsequent weeks.

I agree total domestic will not match TDK.

 

[Shadowlord X]

This thread has gotten really derailed into BO argument so I will try to get it back on track.

One of the issues that concerns me in the potential marketing is a mistake I think they made in the CA:TFA movie and it's marketing. To me the whole project seemed to be riding on an assumption of CAPTAIN AMERICA is a well known icon and just having a good movie is enough. As opposed to the mentality of we need to impress non-fans with our action sequences and visuals. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the movie, but I was always sold on it so marketing to get me there as a MARVEL fan is pointless. I'm worried that the marketing for THE AVENGERS may focus a little too much on the combing franchises concept which will further hype us up and definitely bring in more people. However there are people out there for whom that concept will not do anything for and thus they need to have aspects of the marketing that will bring in those poeple. I hate to beat a dead horse of a crap movie, but the marketing for TF3 is a prime example. The trailers had mindblowing VFX that just made people want to see it. I think that's critical for THE AVENGERS.

 

[Adamantium Man]

Yeah, like I said before, bring in the females by hyping up the bromance. It has worked since Stark Trek: TOS.

Case in point, go to tumblr and search the Avengers tag. You'll be surprised by how few fanboys there are wanting to see 'splosions. Most of the posters and commenters are females wanting to see the hunky guys being chummy with each other. (I'm one of them.)

 

[cherokeesam]

This thread has gotten really derailed into BO argument so I will try to get it back on track.

One of the issues that concerns me in the potential marketing is a mistake I think they made in the CA:TFA movie and it's marketing. To me the whole project seemed to be riding on an assumption of CAPTAIN AMERICA is a well known icon and just having a good movie is enough. As opposed to the mentality of we need to impress non-fans with our action sequences and visuals. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the movie, but I was always sold on it so marketing to get me there as a MARVEL fan is pointless. I'm worried that the marketing for THE AVENGERS may focus a little too much on the combing franchises concept which will further hype us up and definitely bring in more people. However there are people out there for whom that concept will not do anything for and thus they need to have aspects of the marketing that will bring in those poeple. I hate to beat a dead horse of a crap movie, but the marketing for TF3 is a prime example. The trailers had mindblowing VFX that just made people want to see it. I think that's critical for THE AVENGERS.

I agree that the trailers will need to play up the alien invasion/disaster movie aspect; but we've been led down the primrose path before on movies that promised great fx and delivered little else (Green Lantern, 2012, Cowboys & Aliens, etc.)

While the visuals will be a large part of the sell in the trailers, the saving grace will be the human aspects. There's no doubt that Whedon is great at writing ensembles, and the trailer should play up that camaraderie with all the one-liners.

The trailers and marketing should promise not only ooh-aah fx, but also just a damn fun adventure that doesn't take itself so seriously that it forgets to laugh at itself once in awhile. From what I've seen of the dialogue so far in the teaser, I have no worries at all on that front.