What would the founding fathers think of Bush and his administration?

[Dan33977]

"Who cares?"

 

[demento]

They'd burn them as witches.

 

[The Senator]

I think they'd be too busy playing with the iPhone to give a damn.

 

[Rorschach II]

They would disapprove of the Congress more than anything else.

They wouldn't disapprove of Bush because of the war really (except maybe for why he didn't just bomb the **** out of Iraq instead of sending our soldiers out there as bait to determine who's good and who's bad), but definitely because of the Patriot Act.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They would disapprove of the Congress more than anything else.

They wouldn't disapprove of Bush because of the war really (except maybe for why he didn't just bomb the **** out of Iraq instead of sending our soldiers out there as bait to determine who's good and who's bad), but definitely because of the Patriot Act.

Alien & Sedition Acts

The founding fathers were not as innocent as people think.

All in all, the system has always been flawed and corrupt.

 

[Rorschach II]

Thomas Jefferson (my favorite founding father) and James Madison as well as other famous and important Founding Fathers were against it. Alien & Sedition acts aren't quite as bad as the PATRIOT ACT is, especially considering the 220 years of advancement in civil rights this nation has undergone.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Thomas Jefferson (my favorite founding father) and James Madison as well as other famous and important Founding Fathers were against it. Alien & Sedition acts aren't quite as bad as the PATRIOT ACT is, especially considering the 220 years of advancement in civil rights this nation has undergone.

But they got passed in Congress...Adams was a founding father, also. As were many others that were for it. Thus the system has always been flawed.

 

[Rorschach II]

The system is only flawed when people that the American people have not elected as our leaders have decision-making abilities when it comes to the Legislative and Executive branch. This is why the system is corrupt now: nearly every congressman's vote has its own price tag which business such as oil companies can more than pay for. This wasn't the case back then. Elected officials made a decision they were given the power to by the people. Simply because you disagree with that decision doesn't mean it's corrupt. It's corrupt when big businesses buy congressional votes as they do now.

Thus, the system has not always been corrupt. But it certainly is now.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

On one hand, they were probably more conservative then then even the most hard-core neo-cons today, so some might more wonder when the hell women were given rights than anything.

On the other hand, Bush has really f**ked up the Constitution and...well, one must remember that the Founding Fathers were a group of people who decided to become their own nation and killed people in warfare because of the tax on their tea. So, saying that they were pretty PASSIONATE would be putting it likely.

 

[Dwarf lord]

To be honest, I don't know. The founding father enacted many unconstutional laws in their days, yet felt it was best to stay out of the affairs of the other continents and remain neutral in those affairs.

I can't say, really.

Um... they more or less created the constitution... If it was anyone's place to alter it and what not, it was them.

 

[Manic]

Um... who cares?

1) We don't know what they would think. At all. They're dead. Speculating on it isn't going to get us anywhere.

2) Even if we did know what they would think... what does that change? Would your stance on the Bush administration change simply because Franklin said so?

3) As it's been said before, some of them owned slaves. You think I give a damn what Jefferson's opinions on Iraq, Iran, and Bush would've been? At the end of the day, Jefferson walked home and had sex with his slaves. Then he turned around and said that mixing black and white people was "a degradation to which no lover of his country, no lover of excellence in the human character, can innocently consent."

 

[Spider-Fan]

Um... they more or less created the constitution... If it was anyone's place to alter it and what not, it was them.

They created a document that would change with the times, and our founding fathers were not exactly saints. I am not saying they were terrible, but they did pass laws that were unconstitutional. Many of them. People need to acknowledge this.

Our system has always been corrupt. The electoral college was put into place because the founding fathers didn't trust us to make good decisions (as info traveled slow in those days, and most were illiterate). Those in power now have no ideals and will throw their vote to whichever side pays more.

The system is corrupt. Period. It was in the days of the founding fathers, too.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The system is only flawed when people that the American people have not elected as our leaders have decision-making abilities when it comes to the Legislative and Executive branch. This is why the system is corrupt now: nearly every congressman's vote has its own price tag which business such as oil companies can more than pay for. This wasn't the case back then. Elected officials made a decision they were given the power to by the people. Simply because you disagree with that decision doesn't mean it's corrupt. It's corrupt when big businesses buy congressional votes as they do now.

Thus, the system has not always been corrupt. But it certainly is now.

It has always been corrupt, just not to the extent that it is now.

 

[Dark Vigilante]

I disagree with the Bush administration, but my judgement is not swayed out of any obligation to agree with the founding fathers on anything. Their opinions don't control my opinions. I can think for myself. I dont' have to believe something just because they did. And the founding fathers were wrong on a ****load of crap.

Bush might be an idiot, but at least he doesn't go out to his ranch and whip a bunch of field slaves. I hate Bush, but his values aren't nearly as disgusting as many of the values cherished by the founding fathers.

You know what they would do to me and you for being atheists? They'd hang us.

Clearly you don't really know your history. While it is good that you think on your own, as should everyone, that doesn't automatically make the opinions and values of the founding fathers completely erroneous. Jefferson and Franklin wrote many things that I find agreeable not because they were our founding fathers but because what they actually wrote is something that I analyzed and agreed with on my own. There are many great ideas and beliefs that came from these men, and to completely ignore their message simply because "we think on our own" is ignorant.

Thats not to say they were right about everything. Owning slaves was clearly wrong. However, it is something that most of the Founding Fathers loathed and regreted partaking in. One must understand, that during that time in our country, owning slaves was considered in many parts of the country simply an essential part of everyday life. If the Founding Fathers had given up all their slaves and then became abolitionists, they would have alienated the entire southern half of the country, destroying the already shakey unity the newborn country was trying to hold on to. Slavery was such a touchy issue in some parts of the country that abandoning it nearly a hundred years later created a devastating civil war. It was in the best interest of the country at the time of the Founding Fathers for them to continue owning slaves, for the sake of the country's future. Eventually it would be a civil war anyway that would decide the issue of slavery, although abolishing slavery was certainly something worth making great sacrafices for.
Slavery is certainly a blemish on the legacy of the Founding Fathers, but that does not make them automatically "disgusting" in all their values, ideas, and beliefs. It was Thomas Jefferson who had an affair and a child with one of his slaves, and it was Benjamin Franklin who freed all his slaves and stood up against it.

It is complete bull**** that someone would be hanged for being an athiest during the times of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson himself deeply and intently questioned religion and it's correctness. He believed Jesus was not the son of God, but was indeed simply a special man with a special message. He in fact wrote his own version of the bible, called the Jefferson Bible, which bascially omitted all the religous aspects of the New Testament and focused more on the life and moral lessons of Jesus. It also speaks volumes that the right to freedom of religion is part of the first amendment of the Bill of Rights that the U.S. government is sworn to uphold.

It is ignorant to ignore the lifes and lessons of the Founding Fathers. On the contrary, in our current plight it is better that we investigate and analyze them to help us through the difficulties of the day. These were, at their core, good men, who would have fought to the death for what they believed would be a just and fair way of living and way of governing. For that, we owe them much.

 

[Rorschach II]

It has always been corrupt, just not to the extent that it is now.

I believe we are talking about two different things then.

But remember, "corrupt" does not mean "things that Spider-Fan930" does not agree with.
​

 

[Manic]

The system has always been flawed. Not necessarily corrupt. At least at first.

 

[StorminNorman]

People who care about America's founding principles and how they're being perverted by leaders who shroud themselves in the American flag?

Its a ridiculous case.

1. The times are completely different, so the input of guys that have been dead for over 2 centuries has very little meaning.

2. You are acting as if they all had a single, united view on how the country should be ran.

Alexander Hamilton would probably love the increases of power given to the President, as well as the great economic success we have seen under Bush.

Thomas Jefferson is probably rolling in his grave.

John Adams would see very little wrong in the bending of united liberties in the name of National Security, and would support the Bush support of big business.

Benjamin Franklyn would be outraged at the idea and disgusted by the country.

 

[S_H_F_4839]

they would start a new american revolution from america, and would all move to hawaii.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I believe we are talking about two different things then.

But remember, "corrupt" does not mean "things that Spider-Fan930" does not agree with.
​

Yes, I know that. You act as if corruption in the gov't is new. It isn't new, it has just become widespread.

 

[Sun_Down]

In general, I believe they'd be horrified. The whole point of independence was to end tyranny and empower the people. Some 230 years later, it seems like our President wants nothing more than to be King George I and the people feel entirely powerless.

 

[Matt]

They would likely disapprove, but at the same time, who cares? That is why the originalist view of the Constitution is so stupid. You cannot apply principals from the 1700s to modern times. The same could be said of Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, etc. Their thought process would be based on 1700s principals, which clearly do not apply today.

 

[Kelly]

That's something we will never know......

 

[ShadowBoxing]

They would likely disapprove, but they would likely disapprove of FDR and Clinton for the same reasons.

 

[blind_fury]

They would likely disapprove, but they would likely disapprove of FDR and Clinton for the same reasons.

apples and oranges.

Bush is far more like the tyrannical King of England that the colonies rebelled against than Clinton or FDR.

 

[Trainwreck2100]

I'm sure Franklin would have loved Bush as a drinking buddy.