The greatest and worst Presidents of all time

[Noir]

Just because he created what gave birth to affirmative action doesn't mean he's good.
Because he broke into the headquarters of his opponents and tried to sabotage them makes him evil.

 

[The Senator]

Yeah they do.
Just because he created what gave birth to affirmative action doesn't mean he's good.
Because he broke into the headquarters of his opponents and tried to sabotage them makes him evil.

So, Kennedy must be evil because he didn't publicly support the Civil Rights movement?

 

[Noir]

just because he didn't publicly support him doesn't mean he didn't support it.
Same can be said about Nixon:
He Supported it in public, yet when it was him in the oval office and his little Tape-O-max he could certainly toss a few "n's" around..

 

[Kelly]

Nixon was using racist slurs on his tapes

True, this is where those comments came from....

OH, THOSE AFRICANS!​

Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, September 24, 1972 At Camp David, Nixon and Kissinger discussed events in Africa: Uganda's President Idi Amin had recently ordered the expulsion of Asians with British passports. (He later expanded the order to include Asians of Indian, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi descent.) Great Britain, which had cut off economic aid to Uganda, was concerned about the safety of its remaining citizens there.
HK: Hello, Mr. President.
RN: Hi, Henry [clearing throat], how are ya?
HK: I am fine. Sorry to disturb you.
RN: No, that's all right. Fine, fine.
HK: We have a problem in Uganda.
RN: Yeah.
HK: And the problem is this: the British are very worried that there may be a massacre of their seven thousand, ah—
RN: British.
HK: British they've got there, and they're scattered all over the country.
RN: Of course.
HK: And they'd like to have some secret talks with us about some logistics help.
RN: Sure—well, then, have them.
HK: They tried it earlier this week, and State has turned them down repeatedly.
RN: Screw State! State's always on the side of the blacks. The hell with them.
HK: I knew this would be your reaction!
RN: I just can't understand why we haven't had them before. You know, like that thing on Burundi [that spring and summer more than 100,000 Hutus were killed after an uprising against the Tutsi government]. I want State's ass reamed out on that for not, for not—Henry, ah, in the whole Burundi business—I've been watching it in the press—did you know that State has not sent one memorandum over to us on it?
HK: Absolutely!
RN: Or have they? Or have you had something I haven't seen?
HK: No, no, they have not.
RN: Well, how do you feel about it? Don't you really feel—just be, let's be totally honest, isn't a person a person, goddamn it? … You know, there are those, you know, they talk about Vietnam, about these people far away that we don't know, and you remember that poor old Chamberlain [Neville Chamberlain, Britain's Prime Minister from 1937 to 1940] talks about the Czechs, that they were far away and we don't know them very well. Well, now, goddamn it, people are people in my opinion.
HK: Well, it's not only that—
RN: I don't mean our national interest gets involved. But every time, every time, that anybody else gets involved—every time it's one other individual or us and you have a little pressure group here—State goes up the wall. But I'm getting tired of this business of letting these Africans eat a hundred thousand people and do nothing about it.
HK: And when they have—and all these bleeding hearts in this country, who say we like to kill yellow people.
RN: That's right.
HK: There haven't been as many killed in eight years of the war as were killed in three months in Burundi …
RN: Isn't it awful, though, what these, this goddamn guy—the head of Uganda, Henry—is an ape!
HK: He's an ape without education.
RN: That's probably no disadvantage. I mean—
[Kissinger laughs heartily.]
RN: You figure that ******* that was the head of Ghana had a brilliant education in the United States. Then, I mean, so let's face it—
HK[laughing]: That's right.
RN: No, no, what I mean is, he really is, he's a prehistoric monster. But the same with Burundi.




In his ignorance, I have a feeling he did not equate Africa withe America.....but you are correct.

 

[Marx]

Yeah...I'm not agreeing with certain aspects of that list.

 

[StorminNorman]

This is so absolutely ridiculous. Thomas Jefferson? ********. He was a hypocritical bastard. I still don't like FDR. Woodrow Wilson is a laughable choice.

Nixon, easily, based on his accomplishments did more than 90% of the Presidents. He was fantastic. Yes - Watergate, but that doesn't forfeit his accomplishments.

My top 10:
1. George Washington
2. Abraham Lincoln
3. Teddy Roosevelt
4. Harry S. Truman
5. Richard Nixon - take out Watergate, number 1.
6. Dwight Eisenhower
7. John Adams
8. James Monroe
9. James Polk
10. Andrew Jackson

 

[StorminNorman]

They were slaves. They weren't treated that well. All of the founders had slaves. You just gotta be able to understand it was a different time. Woodrow Wilson was horribly racist. He claimed that Birth of a Nation (a movie that glorified the KKK and showed black men as savages trying to rape white women) was one of the most historically accurate representations of early America ever. That doesn't take away from his presidency as it was a different time and different context. It is important to understand that.

Hamilton, Adams - more I am sure.

 

[StorminNorman]

Nixon was a crook, a scammer, and probably a racist..

Kennedy avoided a full-on nuclear confrontation, Nixon had people break into a hotel and dabbled in Podcast.

Kennedy did nothing positive for the country and ****ed up big time with the Bay of Pigs. It could also be argued he is a big reason Vietnam went the way it was, simply because he refused to follow the advice of his "experts" on the matter of Vietnam.

 

[Kelly]

Kennedy did nothing positive for the country and ****ed up big time with the Bay of Pigs. It could also be argued he is a big reason Vietnam went the way it was, simply because he refused to follow the advice of his "experts" on the matter of Vietnam.

True, but his 7th step in his "Cuban Crisis Speech" was a hell of a step....lol

 

[The Senator]

Hamilton, Adams - more I am sure.

Ben Franklin didn't have slaves as well... though he did have multiple sexual liaisons...

 

[Matt]

Hamilton, Adams - more I am sure.

Okay, a good majority. It doesn't negate the point about judging presidents such as Jackson based on actions that were acceptable in the context of their time.

 

[StorminNorman]

Okay, a good majority. It doesn't negate the point about judging presidents such as Jackson based on actions that were acceptable in the context of their time.

But Hamilton and Adams were like, two of the most important founding fathers They count double.

 

[Matt]

This is so absolutely ridiculous. Thomas Jefferson? ********. He was a hypocritical bastard. I still don't like FDR. Woodrow Wilson is a laughable choice.

Nixon, easily, based on his accomplishments did more than 90% of the Presidents. He was fantastic. Yes - Watergate, but that doesn't forfeit his accomplishments.

My top 10:
1. George Washington
2. Abraham Lincoln
3. Teddy Roosevelt
4. Harry S. Truman
5. Richard Nixon - take out Watergate, number 1.
6. Dwight Eisenhower
7. John Adams
8. James Monroe
9. James Polk
10. Andrew Jackson

Decent list. I disagree with leaving our FDR. Wilson laid down a lot of ground work for later presidents, which is important to remember. Jefferson may have been a hypocrite, but one cannot deny his accomplishments in the Oval Office. Especially if you want to rank Nixon so highly, regardless of Watergate (which I do to an extent consider to be a fair move. Like I said earlier in the thread. The only difference between Nixon and any other president is that Nixon got caught).

 

[Matt]

But Hamilton and Adams were like, two of the most important founding fathers They count double.

Speaking of important founding fathers, you know who I'd like to add honorable mention to on my list? James Madison. It seems like he is the forgotten great president who is always snubbed by such lists. I mean, look at his pre-presidency alone. He authored the Constitution, wrote over a third of the federalist papers, and pretty much arranged the Louisiana Purchase as Secretary of State (though Jefferson gets all the credit for it). His presidency was pretty decent too. The War of 1812 was pretty damn important in order to secure trade rights. Granted, he was wrong on the National Bank issue for most of his presidency, but in the end he turned around on that and created a second one. He should definitely be considered on such lists.

 

[StorminNorman]

Decent list. I disagree with leaving our FDR. Wilson laid down a lot of ground work for later presidents, which is important to remember. Jefferson may have been a hypocrite, but one cannot deny his accomplishments in the Oval Office. Especially if you want to rank Nixon so highly, regardless of Watergate (which I do to an extent consider to be a fair move. Like I said earlier in the thread. The only difference between Nixon and any other president is that Nixon got caught).

I am still not sold on FDR. I think Truman was the better man, the better President. FDR allowed his administration to be injected with communist sympathizers, I don't like the New Deal, he was responsible for an incredible increase in government, etc.

Jefferson's Embargo of 1807 crippled the economy. My hypocrite comment had nothing to do with slavery, it was political hypocrisy. He was suppose to be a President that implemented his Republican Simplicity values and yet instead, more or less, continued Hamilton's programs. The Louisiana Purchase, even, went against his beliefs.

 

[Matt]

I am still not sold on FDR. I think Truman was the better man, the better President. FDR allowed his administration to be injected with communist sympathizers, I don't like the New Deal, he was responsible for an incredible increase in government, etc.

So was Lincoln. I think at the end of the day, FDR entered the White House with more problems than any other President in history...and when he was done, he did a pretty damn good job of cleaning them up.

Jefferson's Embargo of 1807 crippled the economy. My hypocrite comment had nothing to do with slavery, it was political hypocrisy. He was suppose to be a President that implemented his Republican Simplicity values and yet instead, more or less, continued Hamilton's programs. The Louisiana Purchase, even, went against his beliefs.

Hamilton's values were inevitable though. Our country would've failed without them and Jefferson was smart enough to see that.

 

[StorminNorman]

Hamilton's values were inevitable though. Our country would've failed without them and Jefferson was smart enough to see that.

And yet campaigned hard against them the previous 12 years in American government. He became President because he was going to remove the Federalist principals. He did nothing he promised to do as President.