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Discussion in 'Suicide Squad' started by Blackman, Aug 7, 2016.
700 million + says WB made the right choice.
Really? So the likes of Transformers making billions means Michael Bay would be the right choice to direct a DCEU movie? I guess Spider-Man 3 making nearly a billion means they should have continued making the Spider-Man franchise that way.
This is completely irrelevant. The point was that the amount of money this movie made despite the crappy reviews proves that no, DC didn't need to copy Marvel with extensive buildup to make Suicide Squad work. There was never a problem with its place in the release slate.
That's only if you define "work" as requiring, and *only* requiring, financial success. You overlooked the point of comparisons with Michael Bay and Transformers: the movies may make ( tons of ) money, but they are also terrible. Which is the thing I always wonder: how many DC fans *really* want WB to follow the path of Transformers in adapting the material?
I would change about everything BUT.
Deadshot vs Batman deserved a decent fight, not a backalley scene like a bish. A big fight between the two, batman jumping around from deadshot's bullets, getting one shot through his armor and aiming for the head and then his daughter jumps in to prevent this happening. A shoulder grab? thats all? really?
Batman vs Joker scene was weak. needed a longer scene, cutting through the roof, etc. harley underwater bishslap was unneccesary, just let her be. and where the hell did joker go?
missing 'i cant wait to show you my toys' scene was disappoint. there was a lot of atmosphere there, it went out of the window entirely.
asylum scene was a mess and should not happen so fast into the movie, so fast-paced. it should have been a moment to show joker's danger to the fullest. way too much wobbly screen effects too. it was annoying. should have built up, and stretched this scene far longer.
harley in the chemvat was cringeworthy. would you live for me? what? also too damn high jump.
also, where was the joker slaps harleeen quinn scene and pisses on her?
also, that common scene was more or less ok, but the 'she's yo women' stuff was weak. common needed to be a beast, yet still be scared from the joker in the end. i dunno, he just got 'terminated' i guess behind the scenes. also, the joker dancing with harleen in her red-black suit was too forced in and i did not see the use. a reference of the suit in a case when getting dressed did more impact. just leave that out.
happy family joker? hell nah. that was just stupid.
joker's knife on the floor scene? meh.
i'm now hoping to turn letoker into an actual deranged former robin, after seeing this.
Heath still is absolute king Joker. far more menacing. Letos joker only worked by rapid 'threats'. An ipad showing a women held hostage? Heath would have gotten in without the need for that. That would have been much more dangerous.
Slipknot should not have been killed like a bish. Plenty of characters to have used to pop the head off. Also, harley just walking to joker in a heli? weak as fuzz.
Batman didn't even pop in to save the day from enchantress. he could have done that all alone.
and the way they went into the area where enchantress was dancing campy....no guards, no nothing. so much material to use, so little happened.
i never understood he use for going to the control room.
the sudden shooting of the cops 'under level' was BS and not giving any feeling of her being a badass, it just seemed rediculous and forced for a crowd 'response'.
the only thing i felt made 'some' sense was the mentioning of superman gone.
i dont get how this made a lot of money. i hated it.
1) Hype. 2) While the reception is mixed. I dont think a lot of people hated it. 3) It had a really good release date like Deadpool, Kingsmen, and BvS.
1) true that. which really only made the disappointment for me bigger.
2) yeah but it still sucks salty round objects.
3) probably true, but it's not even close as good as either of these.
I think BvS was a tad disappointing, but i still liked it, and the ultimate cut turned BvS into a great movie imho. not perfect, but still, great.
I understand that the entire movie has been cut into pieces and illogically put together, which ruins it, but even if that's so, and even if there might be a better cut on it's way 'fixing' continuity, i still feel it wont change just how bad it is.
Let's just say i see no single shred of connection in any way to the movie. it feels like it only makes sense to......i dunno. to filling some cinema seats.
from the too fast 'evacuated' city, to the weird 'slaves' that once were normal citizens? to the 'sudden' need to apply task force X when convieniently shiz goes down.
HISHE actually killed the movie in a simple act. I dont get what the studio was smoking when they decided it needed to go this way. I really dont.
I had high hopes for a decent DC universe, and a 'Batman' reboot.
It's really starting to fade into darkness, whilst Marvel is getting better and better.
no hate, just disappointment.
I absolutely love Affleck as batman. I absolutely love his suit and tech. I think he's very loyal to the true comic book character. But the movies they've put in him are doubtfull. Lets hope Justice League does a better job than this.
I am excited for Deadstroke vs Batman though. just please dont crowd it with nonsense.
just finally saw this movie. god, what a misstep. bland, predictable, nonsensical, and a waste of very cool characters and performances. i would have rewritten the entire plot and cut out enchantress entirely. ground the movie more in a more realistic threat, have the joker be an active part of the plot, and have batman play a passive but present role in the film's plot. i really think the animated suicide squad film would have been a much, much better route. also, the flashbacks through the film are just lazy and terribly plotted. when you're providing backstory for diablo and katana for just about the first time right before the film's climactic battle, you know your movie is a complete mess.
the after credit scene also made no damn sense. if i re-wrote that scene, i'd have waller getting a call, briefing her about a data breach of the metahuman data which had occurred earlier in the day. then her door creaks open, she grabs a gun, and investigates. she sees nothing -- until batman shows up behind her. she doesn't seem phased and puts the gun away. they exchange some barbs -- she intimates she knows he's bruce, and he warns her to shut down her program because he and his friends have it from here. this would serve to have batman be much more active in how he procures the metahuman data, and it makes their interaction a bit more exciting. as it is, it makes no damn sense why she's meeting with wayne, why she's asking wayne for protection (and just how wayne can provide that protection), and why bruce needs to cut deals to get the information.
Basically everything I would have done differently is in Ayer's original cut of the movie, from the reports given. I would have also liked to see the Enchantress plan/climax pre-reshoots. I would have reigned Enchantress's power in more, and done one of two things with her. Either A) make her powers more about smoke and mirrors, teleportation, controlling people with her mind etc etc instead of allowing her to basically shoot lightning out of her fingertips or B) make her powers more in line with LOTR wizard magic ala Saruman and Gandalf- where she has some abilities but its more about using a lengthy spell, being physically drained after doing so etc etc. The latter probably would have worked better in the original movie with her "ashy Witch" look. I think she had potential, and really could've been quite easy to fix. Have we heard reports about what her original plan was in the test screenings? Iv'e heard that it was different.
I agree with pretty much all of this, and would also change most everything about the film. Like I wouldn't have Amanda Waller being such a screw up, have them
Have more of a reason for forming the Squad, like performing some covert military operation that the government can't be seen to be a part of, the government can't even be seen to be using metahumans in foreign affairs because that would be akin to using nuclear weapons, so they HAVE to be kept a secret.
Also, there should have been a reason why Harley was absolutely necessary on the Squad, like maybe she had to get back with Joker or go undercover using his contacts, for whatever reason. As it is, it's like "She's insane and unpredictable, has no real training or special abilities, except she's surprisingly acrobatic for a psychiatrist, and she uses a baseball bat, but we need her for this covert military operation because she's "Crazier and more fearless than The Joker'" and the top military brass say "Yeah, okay, that makes sense."
Also, highly agree with this, and (if they had to use her as the main villain) it should have been like, she wasn't involved with the Squad in the first place, maybe some terrorist cell gets a hold of her and is able to control her, using her basically as a weapon, and the Squad has to be formed to combat threats like this. As it is, it just makes Amanda Waller look incredibly inept and stupid.
"I'm putting together a covert team of dangerous, volatile, highly powerful individuals (and one girl whose just completely insane but she's flexible and fights with a wooden baseball bat) who I think can do some real good. But don't worry, my greatest skill is controlling people and getting them to do what I want and as I'm saying this, one of them went rogue and is probably going to destroy the world, but this is still a good idea, we'll just send the rest of them on their first mission to stop her, and this will probably be highly publicized, so let's send these people we obviously can't be certain that we can control, and we're not supposed to be seen to be working with, as opposed to the actual military. Instead of using drones or something that would make sense, one guy can throw a bomb and the other guy can shoot it, the fate of the entire world is at stake, but this can be like a training mission... annnd as I'm talking, there goes the guy who is good at tying knots.... So, we'll just kill him real quick.... You know, this seemed like a lot better of an idea in my head..."
And all the top generals of the military, tasked with ensuring the safety of the United States are like "Wait, what's going on? I wasn't really paying attention. Something about Superman ripping off the roof of the White House? You know what, you just do whatever, you seem pretty confident."
I won't completely blame Ayer, because they only gave him 6 weeks and seems like they got involved with rewrites and re-shoots, but come on, it's like there was no logic involved when writing the script at all, they just slapped all the characters in there with half assed motivation and plot, like they gave him 6 weeks but he put it off til the night before it was due. But, I'd have to learn more about what his original vision was. There's just nothing that really makes it special, just a mediocre team up movie. They could have taken advantage of the special circumstances of the story, that these are villains who have to be kept under control and off the radar and doing things that the government can't be seen to be involved in. There should have been more of a military, special ops aspect to the plot, and the Squad should have been trained more to work as a team, at least some kind of boot camp type scenes, they didn't have to immediately take them out of jail and throw them into a situation.
I feel the exact same way. First of all, I am not a DC hater or fanboy. I love the characters, I grew up on them, and I love what Marvel has done with their films, for the most part. I loved BvS, there were some missteps with the execution, but overall the tone and the themes it explored relating to our society and comic book superheroes in general, I thought it was pretty great, with a few tweaks it could have been a masterpiece in my eyes, and had me really hopeful that going forward, DCEU would iron the kinks out and offer something great.
Those first CC trailers for BvS and SS got me excited, gave me this vision of a serious DCEU, something mature and adult like Game Of Thrones, but optimistic. Something gritty, edgy, real, like CBMs that were treated as serious drama, offering the Unforgiven or Sergio Leone to Marvel's Magnificent Seven or John Ford, both great in their own way, but offering variety to the genre, like "What of Superheroes existed in our world." And that quick shot at the end of Joker had me feeling like Leto could pull it off and offer something near the Ledger/Nolan interpretation.
Then, the reviews for BvS started pouring in, and I just couldn't understand the hate and vitriol, seemed people wanted to hate it. Which, I don't mind if somebody doesn't like something I like, but when it's so many and so vocal acting as if the movie was pure crap and the DCEU sucks, it takes a lot of the fun out of following and discussing the films online. So, I was really hoping SS would offer something with that tone and seriousness and people would come around. And I don't mind a joke here and there, but I just don't go see these movies for comedy, I want something that presents itself as a serious film and raises serious issues and makes me think, even if it is a bunch of guys in costumes.
Suicide Squad had the makings of something that had potential. I liked the look and the casting, and even thought Leto had the makings of a fantastic Joker. But it just all fell apart, there was nothing holding it together. Felt like there was no thought put toward plot or story or internal logic or developing the characters' backstory or anybody's motivations. It was just all slapped together, half assed, forced, Joker's craziness and randomness felt forced, every line was either a joke or exposition to mindlessly move the plot forward. The whole thing felt desperate, even the soundtrack was cliche and desperate, just put a "cool" song over the scene so we think what we're seeing is cool. The whole thing felt like "Please like us like you like Marvel!"
And the ACTION WASN'T EVEN ANY GOOD! At least if the story sucks, go all out on action to make it exciting.
At least Snyder had a goal and a vision for the kind of tone and story he was aiming at, and a great eye for comic book visuals.
After seeing SS, my expectations for the DCEU have dropped from thinking they were just finding their footing to offer something unique and special, to now it seems like they've abandoned their original vision and are desperately chasing Marvel's tail.
Idk, I still have faith in Snyder that he'll bring us a great film in JL, and hopefully some of the people who are against him but still open minded will come to appreciate him and what he brings to the table more, after Suicide Squad. I can't wait for the next trailer to get a better idea of his vision, after all the hate on BvS.
Wonder Woman looks good from the trailer, and I think Wan has a lot of potential in Aquaman, but I hope it's not every film "Well, that was a bummer, but the next one will save it." I still have very high expectations of Affleck and his Batman solo.
I do believe Leto's Joker isn't irredeemable and can still offer something great, given the right script and direction. So, in retrospect, it's probably a good thing he wasn't in SS for very long, give somebody else an opportunity to take the character and run with it. Honestly though, I'd prefer him and Harley to go their separate ways, I don't see it happening, but since she's a hit with fans, I feel like they would try to showcase her just as much, which would kinda ruin the dynamic, I think it works best when Harley is secondary to The Joker and he gets to shine
I feel this thread is kind of handicapped because we still don't know what the original story was. Circumstantial evidence implies that it was radically different, and possibly a rushed script, though we don't know that. Still, here's my ideas, trying to save what's still in the film.
-First major change: open at security briefing trying to address the repeated failures to stop the violent and dangerous expansion of a heavily-armed organization called... Intergang. They're affiliated with numerous terrorist organization and LexCorp, and seem to be filling the latter organization's power vacuum in the gun trade with no, terrifying weapons and allies that astound everyone.
- Enter Amanda Waller, who begins her briefing scene from the film. We receive the quick clips covering everyone, but focusing on Deadshot and Harley (also, Boomerang's scene is now on camera and shows him being humiliatingly subdued with his pants down, since his whole thing is he's an ass who keeps going no matter how foolish he becomes, and Harley is mentioned as being enhanced by "a Eco-criminal associate.")
- We speed up an abridged version of the Belle Reve and recruitment scene, focusing in on Flagg and Deadshot's scenes together, though now Flagg seems far more respectful of Latwon as well as extremely morose and a bit less hostile to the idea of the Squad When Waller reviews Quinn, she is seen getting a text message, which we don't have answered till later, though Harley clearly figures out something's going on.
- Second Major Change: we have a relatively short, 15-minutes Max, sequence where the Squad takes on Intergang. The group's concept is proven lethally effective here, with only El Diablo refusing to contribute, and Flagg's girlfriend unleashing the Enchantress to annihilate some mysterious, huge, and disfigured creatures in trench coats (Parademons). Slipknot is also killed here, in circumstances that seem to show that his training is greater than Boomerang, but Boomerang's cunning takes him out.
- The Intergang scene ends with Enchantress fighting an ally of Intergang, who we fans figure out is a Female Fury. She calls Enchantress sister (putting Enchantress as an Apokilipitkan), and as she dies, frees Enchantress from one of her safeguards, starting the conflict from the finished film, though now restructured as the team's extraction being put off until they rescue Waller and get put back in their box.
- We now enter the finished film's sequences, albeit modified. For instance, Croc is saved by El Diablo's first display of powers, and they start to form a quiet friendship off their origins as petty crooks with conditions that gave them power-- but with drawbacks. Harley gets more scenes of prodding everyone, and she and Katana begin a verbal duel where Harley eventually reveals that she thinks Batman sent Katana. When Deadshot bucks Flagg's authority, a desperate-to-save-June Flagg references Lawton having killed his brother accidentally, like in the comics, to get him to shut up.
- Our group is thus tense but bonding when they get to Waller, with the Joker "rescue" and Waller being the rescuee almost breaking them from Flagg's control. Joker also is more clearly abusive and evil here, and the Squad witnesses the usually tough Harley display her problems before her chopper goes down too. With Waller down, the Squad abandons Flagg, and we get the bar scene after they pick up Harley.
- The bar scene is redone a bit here, with Flagg showing up halfway through, and ordering a whiskey as well, before revealing he's the last survivor of the Squad's predecessor--Tier 1 operators who escorted Echantress, with a heartbeat bomb planted to kill Enchantress if he dies, and that he had it removed against Waller's protests. Since June would rather die than remain Enchantress, he now regrets that decision, since hundreds are dead and she's trapped because he was a coward. He's going to free her, even if it kills him, and he gives Deadshot the letters and everyone else some last bits of their previous lives before heading out.
-The screen also contains discussion of their heroes, with the Bat-villains describing Batman in varying forms that show how they're brave in their own way for facing him, and Boomerang being mocked because no one believes the Flash story, with him going "Screw you all, I'm out of here!" And leaving.
- Diablo is going to join Flagg because he's wants to get some redemption, and calls in Croc with the debt for saving his life, though it's clear Croc wants to help El anyway. Deadshot reads his daughters letters and that makes him go (with some element of a challenge by Flagg that he's down one loved one because of his skills and may lose his daughter if he doesn't help) and Harley follows because she's bored and has nothing to do. Boomerang rejoins because Enchantress's goons are closing off escape routes, and we get a laugh at him initially trying to sound like he came back because he likes them before giving up and admitting the truth.
-We get the fight scene, but tidied up, with Enchantress showing June's still in their by her inability to kill Flagg, and Croc rejoining the fray pissed at El's death in the explosion, finishing off the wounded Incubus by eating his heart. Enchantress is going to win when Deadshot distracts her by shooting Flagg, seemingly fatally, which allows Katana to wound Enchantress, weakening her enough for the combo attack in the film. Flagg survives because Deadshot intentionally hit him non-lethally, and they manage to force Enchantress into Soultaker, freeing June.
-Waller frees herself, holds them hostage, and we get the end of film for the characters, though now it's clear that Flagg, while not a crook like the rest, is reluctantly considered one of the gang, since they refuse to ever be put in the field without him as their liaison. We also have a scene confirming that Katana is Batman's agent, and instead of rejecting the notion entirely, he warns her not to use it against anyone lower than a meta human attack, and Waller notes that he could have sold her out, but seems to agree the Squad is needed, however much he hates the idea.
Take David Ayer off the movie lol. That be my first and most important change.
I would have gone for a smaller squad and more equal time spent showcasing each of its members.
Agreed. Most of Squad have no proper story and just really action characters.
Make every character Boomerang.
Croc and Flag:
That is one thing I really am disappointed about, no Tom Hardy. The other, if true is WB's messing about with their movies. I hate insecure studios who get scared and start messing up theirs other films to prevent a flop. These guys made such a mess. You signed off on the movie, keep your part of the deal, don't start altering something you agreed on.
This is the perfect way to make Suicide Squad better