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Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episodes I - III' started by BenKenobi, Feb 14, 2013.
Frankly,I wouldn't want Dicaprio involved in Star Wars past OR future.
Hayden Christensen and Jake Lloyd were, in my opinion, the worst things about I-III.
George Lucas took a chance on their acting skill and failed. Vader is one of the major reasons to see IV-VI. And the Anakin characters all but ruined my respect for him. Anakin in the Clone Wars animated series is portrayed so much better.
Jar Jar was... y'know, pretty bad. But that couldve been remedied with a few script changes. He was better in the sequels .
now idk many other young actors from that era. But, as an above poster said, Leo would have been substantially more respectable. This is him in 1998:
JGL in 98/99
Edward Furlong in 97/98
Making his character 5 or 6 years older in TPM wouldve been a small price to pay for having respect for that character. And he couldve followed through with the sequels, Lucasarts was pretty good at getting entire casts to return.
So, I think that is the absolute least that would have needed to be changed in order for me to enjoy I-III. Believe it or not, I think a better actor in Vader's shoes in Episode III would have made that movie one of the best of the franchise. A couple other minor changes and it might have been as good as A New Hope.
Other smaller things I wouldve changed:
Young Boba's actor (same story as above)
Battle Droid and Gungan dialogue
Addition of some mention of Han Solo's origin
Give Grievous more to do or remove him entirely
What's wrong with him? He's a great actor would have been much more qualified to play such a significant role than Hayden Christensen. Yeah Romeo and Juliet wasn't great and I'm not really big on Titanic, but you'd be hard put to make the case he's a bad actor on any grounds besides personal preference.
Anakin should have been cast in the Phantom Menace, allowing the actor more time to grow and embrace the role, before having to introduce subtleties of Vader into his performance. Hayden was not given this comfort and given his relative lack of experience and Georges reputation of not being an "actors director" his performance suffered as a result. I really feel bad for him too, he does a pretty good job in Awake and he really hasn't gotten many roles since.
I dunno. I think fleshing out the villains a bit more, and maybe not kill them off so much. Maul was cool, but no-note, Dooku showed up halfway through the movie, The Neimodians are...not threatening. How come none of those guys felt like the antagonist of a story.
I suppose because everyone you mentioned feared someone else. The actual antagonist of all 6 films.
Because they never did anything threatening/particularly cruel and they never seemed like they had a good chance of winning. Think about it-
Neimodians- Whined, begged, and cowered whenever they were threatened in the Phantom Menace and killed not one person on screen.
Darth Maul- Stood silently with a cool costume while musical cues told us he's bad.
Darth Sidious- Made a bunch of threats, followed a plan that (strictly from what the movie shows us) was completely illogical, and again did nothing to reaffirm his power.
Count Dooku- Appeared over half way through the movie, didn't do anything threatening or evil, only things that made sense based on his agenda.
Darth Vader- Enters the screen surveying a smoldering pile of dead bodies with satisfaction, chokes a struggling grown man with a single hand then tosses him aside like a rag doll, tortures the lead actress, chokes someone across the room for not agreeing with him, is said to have spearheaded an ethnic purge which lead to the death of the heroes father, kills the mentor, one of the last remaining mysterious Jedi left in the picture, kills the heroes best friend, displays no emotion besides frustration, and this is only in the first film.
The Neimodians should have a transmission of them killing the people of Naboo we met in the opening scenes to add urgency, Darth Maul should have been the primary threat in contact with them and should have demonstrated why the Federation fears him (off one of them with some cruel use of the force), Darth Sidious shouldn't have been revealed until the end in maybe a hologram to make him more mysterious and to allow Darth Mauls presence to justify his own, and Qui-Gon shouldn't have been the only loss in the final battle.
Lucas made the prequels far too kid friendly. He seems to have forgotten kids like to see things they perceive as adult because it makes them feel apart of the bigger world.
Just a few:
1. Older Anakin
2. Episode I closer to the Clone Wars timeline, if not already at the beginning/during the CW. With Episode II could have basically been anything from the animated series...with Ep III mainly the same.
3.Darth Maul as a series (PT) long antagonist...doing a new villain each film left left little time to develop those new characters...having one main antagonist (besides Sidious of course), they could have at least maybe given some more backstory to Darth Maul or whomever---or at least the opportunity to learn and expand upon why the baddies are bad---no chilling music cues, or characters dreading and informing us he's bad...
4. No over reliance on the EU---I think the PT suffered from having to use the EU to fill in gaps. Something mentioned in the films (namedropping characters, planets, battles, etc)---you could probably read about it...or play it...etc...I ain't got time for that...
I'll try to think of a few more, I'm a little ill, and just trying to pass the time right now.
I wouldn't have severely undermined Yoda by making him fight like a cartoon grasshopper. That paired with midichlorians completely subverts the great "luminous beings are we" scene in Empire, where the emphasis was not on physical prowess and combat skills but on spiritual power.
I wouldn't have made the prequels in the first place. Three films built upon backstory from the original films were unnecessary.
The films should've been 'The Adventures of Obi-Wan Kenobi' with Anakin as a background character who Ben stumbles upon on an adventure. Anakin, when first encountered, should've been an older teenager. A charismatic but reckless character who helps Ben out of a scrape and displays his uncanny force powers (as a pilot in a chase?) in doing so. And then you build the story from there. So many possibilities such as, Anakin is the half brother of Owen Lars who share the same mother (Anakins father remains a mystery) who both grow up on the homestead. Yoda IS Obi-Wans master and teacher. Clones as the ENEMY of the Republic. Maul as the Sith enemy throughout the trilogy with Sidious only hinted at in 1. Revealed in II. And plays a prominent role in III to name a few.
1. I would have cast one actor for Anakin across all 3 movies. Had Anakin closer to Padme's age.
2. Would have maximized Obiwan's role and minimized or eliminated Quigon's role. Maybe Obiwan is the one that debates the jedi council on the training of Anakin, not Quigon.
3. Got rid of all those stupid CGI creatures that were unnecessary. Use more practical effects and animatronics
4. Padme still dies at childbirth. Leia is born, and named. Luke is born, and Padme dies just as he is born and she doesn't name him. That way when we meet Luke in Episodes 4-6, we don't know about Leia being his sister until he reveals it to us in Episode 6.
everyone should watch from episode I.... that is what I would have fixed.
Honesty I didn't enjoy the pre-quells at the time of release except ROTS, but I have to say TPM has grown a lot me.
Only things I would have changed would be as follows.
Age up Anakin from the start.
Casted Charlie Hunnam instead of Hayden
Merge Dooku and Qui Jon characters.
Obi wan is already a Master so an older Obi would be needed like Iain Glen.
Because of aging characters up the Clone wars would have to start in the first movie. Maybe have Anakin join war effort under Obi's command as a pilot. Obi rebels against councils wishes to train Anakin.
Maul would be Anakins adversary thru the first two films then it would end with Obie.
Dooku/Qui Jon would be obi's.
Emperor reveal only in third film in second half of film.
Feature Alderaan more.
Less Green Screen, more practical effects.
I wouldn't have killed off Padme. It would have worked better for ROTJ when Leia said her mother died when she was young. Darth Sideous could have lied to Vader about her death.
-Merge the characters of Qui-Gon/Maul/Dooku. Make him the Vader of the PT.
-Replace Naboo with Alderaan.
-Make Padme NOT a princess. One idea I had was that she's a slave friend of Anakin's on Tattooine, and in Episode II it's revealed that she's the lost Queen of Alderaan.
-Tell the trilogy through Anakin's perspective.
-Make him older from the get-go and cast DiCaprio.
-No Jango Fett. Replace him with some other ORIGINAL bounty hunter character.
-Yoda SHOULDN'T have a lightsaber.
-Cast Morgan Freeman as Mace Windu rather than Samuel L. Jackson.
-No General Grievous.
-Shake up the Clone Wars. Have Episode I open with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan investigating a mysterious cloning factory on Tattooine. Qui-Gon is captured, Obi-Wan escapes and meets Anakin and Padme. When I first heard the Clone Wars spoken about in ANH, it seemed like a war fought by clone armies on both sides. So this mysterious cloning factory on Tattooine is producing an army to battle the Republic (secretly being controlled by Palpatine) and the Jedi hear that the Sith are behind it. When they attack, Palpatine is desperately lobbying to be elected Supreme Chancellor and when he is in Episode II, he can promise to "end the war and save the galaxy" by producing his own army of clones. Palpatine now has two vast armies.
-Qui-Gon is revealed as a Sith Lord at the end of Episode I. We already know the character is rebellious to the Council, so give him the viewpoint that the Jedi will soon destroy themselves and that he's trying to "save the galaxy" himself or whatever. Something like that. Then in Episode III, when Palpatine is trying to make Anakin come over to the Dark Side, he convinces him to kill Qui-Gon so he can become Darth Vader.
-The politics of the trilogy never made sense to me. Too convoluted. A much simpler way for Palpatine to achieve power? In Episode I we have a Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, who's well-liked and stuff. Palpatine is one of two or three other candidates tipped to replace him once he leaves office. In Episode II, now that he's orchestrated the beginning of the Clone Wars and the galaxy is well in the midst of it, order the original bounty hunter who is not Boba Fett's dad to kill the Chancellor. At the end, Palpatine is elected as his replacement.
-Why would Yoda let Obi-Wan train Anakin if he along with the REST of the Council sensed great darkness in him? At the end of Episode I make Obi-Wan and Anakin rogue Jedi's who are then called upon by the Council/Republic to help fight in the Clone Wars at the start of Episode II because they're great assets and stuff.
Maybe I went a little overboard.
So has everyone heard of fanedit.org? I mean, most SW fans have probably heard of The Phantom Edit and The Attack of the Phantom. They were decent I suppose, definitely more watchable.
But the problem is that there are more flawed-to-bad scenes in the movies as a whole that they are almost not worth saving. I was going to propose a new idea that I'm not opposed to anyone stealing. I want to try it myself but I need to do a lot of research and practice video editing and it will take a while.
Basically the concept would be to take the OT and splice the greatest (often most integral) scenes from the PT in as flashbacks. So for instance, around the scene where Obi Wan says to Luke "I was once a jedi knight, the same as your father" it would fade to the anakin/obi wan vs dooku scene from III or something of the like.
for an example of what I mean you can check out this video (its not mine by the way):
Nothing. I love the Prequels.
The third act of Revenge of the Sith really should have been an entire film. Obi-Wan made it sound like he pleaded with Anakin the same way Luke did in Jedi, Leia made it seem like her and her mother hid in fear, and Obi-Wan made it sound like Anakin slowly became more machine than man taking time to get to the point where there was no hope for him.
Phantom Menace was a waste of time imo.
totally agree. There is pretty much nothing salvageable from these dreadful films aside from a few characters. Making a trade federation the antagonist in Ep I? AWFUL. And nobody gives a crap about little kid Anakin. They need to find him well into his teens, not as some lame kid, and he certainly didn't build 3P0
Ep II might be one of the worst films I've ever seen. The story was awful, Hayden Christensen ruined the greatest villain in history and Yoda as a lightsaber wielding frog? Lamentable!! Plus those romance scenes were pure pain.
I've been working on a rewrite of the entire prequel trilogy as a pet project since 2006 and the people I've shown the outlines to seem to like it. It's not nearly finished as I am still writing histories for many of the characters but the few people I've shown the outline to seem to really like it. It's a pretty much totally different story than what we've seen so far, which can only be a good thing, in my opinion.
Phantom Menace wasn't a waste. The originals showed how Luke went from a farmhand to an accomplished Jedi. The prequels were showing how Anakin went from a slave to the man who helped cripple a galaxy.
However, Phantom Menace could have been merged with elements of Attack of the Clones.
No love for my ideas?
Okay. This is interesting. You don't elaborate much but I can use my imagination here. It's not a bad idea at all. I'd be on board with it. Having Qui-Gon Dooku fall to the darkside in Episode I to have a personal threatttt for Anakin and Obi Wan to team up against. Sucks because then you'd have to choose between the mighty acting prowess of Christopher Lee and Liam Neeson and the brilliant choreographic display of Ray Park.
Of course. Done. This would have been the correct move on George's part, no question.
I guess I'm not sure why, but I don't mind the change. Could be cool.
This one I disagree with. Should be primarily Obi Wan's perspective imo.
Not sure why and as such I'm hesitant to agree. I like giving Boba Fett reason to exist in the OT. It just sucks George Lucas can't cast young actors worth a damn.
I agree. For the longest time I liked the Yoda battles, and seeing him face off against the emperor felt very poetic and very... right. But it should have been a mental battle on the astral plane or something. idk.
Maybe, not sure why. I like Mace as THE powerhouse jedi. THE lightsaber master. Gives him diversity between him and the other elder jedi masters.
I have nothing against Grievous. But he did need more of a reason to exist. He is of no personal significance to any character in the film. He's good in the Clone Wars series though.
I don't mind any of this, but don't have much of an opinion on the matter. I liked something I heard in a youtube video about Palpatine being in charge of Defense rather than being a Senator/Chancellor
Again, I like that. Could be done very well. Especially if it's done in a way that Obi Wan thinks his master is killed by "Darth Maul/Tyrannus" but it turns out it's his master. Very ESB. idk, maybe too much of a rehash.
Eh. Even this seems convoluted lol. But I've never been one for Star Wars politics to begin with.
Ohh... interesting. I'll have to ponder that one. Again, could be done very well. It would essentially mean there are at least 3 sects of force users.
- Jedi Order
- rebel jedi (Obi Wan/Anakin/Qui Gon at first)
idk. it would definitely depend on how its done again.
Maybe I went a little overboard in my responses
No kid anakin
Replace Hayden with Heath Ledger
Have Anakin go form EP1- Padawan EP2- Knight EP3-Master/Sith
Dont Kill Maul off. Save his death for EP3, let Anakin kill him to become Palpatines new apprentice
Mace is supposed to be the best lightsaber duelist in the order, yet never was really shown as being that much of a Boss. So i would change that.
The way Saesee Tin, Kit Fisto, and the other guy die in the palpatine fight... Might be the worst death in a fight i have ever seen
No Dooku, and introduce Greivous in EP2
Have Anakin be seduced by the dark side more convincingly.
People always say that Maul should never have been killed off so soon. That he should have more to do.
Look, Darth Maul is cool prescisely because we know nothing about him, he says very little and simply glowers, looks scary and does amazing fighting.
If we found out more about him - and what, really, is there to know that you can't guess already? - he becomes less mysterious.
In addition, the only Star wars villains fleshed out at all are Vader and the Emperor (and only in the prequels). The point of Maul, Dooku, Jabba, Boba Fett et all is simply to be bad guys.
I think a big one fore me is…did Dooku need to be a Sith? I liked the idea of a Jedi who left the order and the Republic, but adding him as a Sith too? That always felt tacked on in Ep. II.
I always thought maybe it would be interesting if they kept Dooku a Jedi who left the order and Republic over his views, with the Trade Federation and other Separatists forces secretly aligned with Sidious, which still allowed Sidious control over both sides of the war.