What'chu Gonna Do When the Wrestling Thread Runs Wild On You?!

[enterthemadness]

I always forget how good Cena is in real life.

Anyhoo, TNA Impact did another week of 1.7 million viewers. Didn't drop against NCAA! (well, maybe demo wise, just not total viewers)

 

[BlackLantern]

I think they can break 2 million....whether they can hold it, I am not sure of

 

[Wheels]

Why do you think TNA ratings have been going up? What drawing more people in?

 

[The Sage]

- Brother Ray and Brother Devon were were scheduled to have a big blowoff to their feud at TNA Lockdown but their feud has been put on hold as Ray is now replacing Jeff Hardy in the storylines.

- Dixie Carter, who has been quiet on Twitter lately, was in attendance for last week's Victory Road pay-per-view and then Monday's iMPACT tapings but then left for Mexico.

- As noted before, Jeff Hardy's March 16th court date was re-scheduled to April 20th. The Southern Pines Pilot has more details on the state waiting for testing results from the drugs that were found at Hardy's home in 2009.

Hardy's attorney was ready to take a plea bargain this past week but the District Attorney told him that they were still waiting on test results from the drugs. The DA wanted a June 2nd hearing but the judge asked if they could be ready in 30 days and Hardy's lawyer said he could. The judge ordered that the test results be rushed and then set the court date for next month. With Hardy's lawyer ready to accept a plea deal, it sounds like the case will finally be coming to an end.

Regarding WGN America's cancellation of WWE Superstars, the Chicago-based superstation didn't feel they were getting what they paid for, which was a program near the level of the Monday Night Raw. WGN agreed to carry the show in late 2008 with the hope it would bring ratings to their national feed, which does not have substantial clearance across cable systems in the United States.

While WWE Superstars initially featured top tier talent such as John Cena, Edge and John Morrison, it was clear from the beginning that it was a show of little consequence. For instance, the program sparingly featured storylines. Within a matter of time, it became the modern day equivalent of Sunday Night Heat, a television showcase for the organization's preliminary talent; Zack Ryder, Tyler Reks, Primo and the brothers Uso were regularly featured in starring roles. Meanwhile, the show's lackluster ratings were indicative of how both fans and officials alike saw it as.

Due to last month's poor financial quarters, company officials have discussed cutting ties with a number of bottom level wrestlers following Wrestlemania XXVII as a cost-cutting measure.

Partial source: PWInsider

http://www.pwpix.net/pwpixnews/headlines/302557241.php
http://www.pwpix.net/pwpixnews/headlines/302565189.php

 

[Metallo]

Why do you think TNA ratings have been going up? What drawing more people in?

Lately I think some people have been curious with the way the Immortal story and specifically things like the "on the road" Impacts and the 3-3-11 reveal would turn out.

But I bet a lot of people watched the most recent Impact because they were curious to know what the fallout would be from the Jeff hardy incident at Victory Road and how TNA would handle that. I know I was and I read the spoilers.

I think they can break 2 million....whether they can hold it, I am not sure of

There have been certain incidents that have caused ratings to spike whether they were good or bad. I think they can get over 2 million but I doubt they could maintain that with how iffy their booking is. The only way they could maintain that is by putting on a steadily good product that hooks those new viewers for good.

- Brother Ray and Brother Devon were were scheduled to have a big blowoff to their feud at TNA Lockdown but their feud has been put on hold as Ray is now replacing Jeff Hardy in the storylines.

Of all the heels in the company why would they choose Bubba to be the guy for Immortal right now? He cuts a great promo but he just looks odd in the main event scene. Surely they could have found someone else in TNA for that role. just stick Anderson in the Hardy role and make it a 3 way feud between a heel Anderson Sting and RVD. Four guys is just to much.

Regarding WGN America's cancellation of WWE Superstars, the Chicago-based superstation didn't feel they were getting what they paid for, which was a program near the level of the Monday Night Raw. WGN agreed to carry the show in late 2008 with the hope it would bring ratings to their national feed, which does not have substantial clearance across cable systems in the United States.

While WWE Superstars initially featured top tier talent such as John Cena, Edge and John Morrison, it was clear from the beginning that it was a show of little consequence. For instance, the program sparingly featured storylines. Within a matter of time, it became the modern day equivalent of Sunday Night Heat, a television showcase for the organization's preliminary talent; Zack Ryder, Tyler Reks, Primo and the brothers Uso were regularly featured in starring roles. Meanwhile, the show's lackluster ratings were indicative of how both fans and officials alike saw it as.

Due to last month's poor financial quarters, company officials have discussed cutting ties with a number of bottom level wrestlers following Wrestlemania XXVII as a cost-cutting measure.

Partial source: PWInsider

Like I said before that sucks. Superstars was a good in ring show even though it had C list talent. It gave them exposure though and without a show I was expecting some cuts.

WWE pulled a bait and switch. I remember when the first episode was main evented by the Undertaker. Clearly that was done so they could hook viewers and then later put less effort into the show. Expecting Top guys like Cena every week would have ben silly but WWE could have put a little more effort into Superstars. Maybe used more top midcard talent on their.

Of course that just shows the problem with the midcard right now. Most of them aren't draws because they haven't been featured properly and used compellingly. If they'd made those midcard guys compelling by giving them better stories and booking they could have drawn more for Superstars.

 

[Mr.Webs]

They should have just kept WWECW. That was an hour of TV I didn't miss when it was on. Always had at least one great match, every week, guaranteed.

 

[Heretic]

Let's not lose or minds here...TNA's rating aren't going THAT high up. In fact, one could argue that all they've done is FINALLY reclaim the audience that left when they moved to Monday's...in addition to stabilizing an audience who tended to watch every other week or so.

I think that there is a certain amount of the wrestling audience that will just give in and watch Impact. You have the Hardy's, RVD, Anderson...eventually people are going to say "screw it" and tune in. Keep in mind, they won't necessarily CARE...they'll just watch because it's on. Kind of like WWE's attempt at ECW...no one actually saw the ECW title as being the same as the WWE title...they just watched it as a side dish to Raw. TNA has basically become the same thing. It's wrestling, it's on, we know a lot of the names...screw it.

At some point TNA needs to actually hook people...create something exciting...that MAKES SENSE and is WELL WRITTEN...that grabs more than just the core wrestling audience. A friend of mine is a middle school teacher, and many of his kids are wrestling fans, and have never heard of TNA. The time is coming when the money will run out...and between now and then TNA needs a hook...and a NEW superstar.

 

[BlackLantern]

agreed...TNA needs to do something to attract NEW viewers...even Kurt Angle in interviews has said he runs into fans of his from the WWE days and they think he's retired or not wrestling anymore

 

[Hotwire]

They need Diesel Power to help even the odds!

I second this!

 

[Slushy]

I like Del Rio, but he doesn't deserve to be champ this soon. These new guys need to pay their dues!

 

[Wheels]

Dixie spends all that money and TNA is still going nowhere. She knows squat about wrestling and put her faith in the wrong people. TNA needs a spring cleaning for sure.

 

[BlackLantern]

eh...that whole "paying dues" bit is such an antiquated notion in this day and age...sure you want guys to be prepared but you also don't want to shortchange someone who so obviously is going to do well just because he hasn't been around as long

 

[Metallo]

Let's not lose or minds here...TNA's rating aren't going THAT high up. In fact, one could argue that all they've done is FINALLY reclaim the audience that left when they moved to Monday's...in addition to stabilizing an audience who tended to watch every other week or so.

I think that there is a certain amount of the wrestling audience that will just give in and watch Impact. You have the Hardy's, RVD, Anderson...eventually people are going to say "screw it" and tune in. Keep in mind, they won't necessarily CARE...they'll just watch because it's on. Kind of like WWE's attempt at ECW...no one actually saw the ECW title as being the same as the WWE title...they just watched it as a side dish to Raw. TNA has basically become the same thing. It's wrestling, it's on, we know a lot of the names...screw it.

At some point TNA needs to actually hook people...create something exciting...that MAKES SENSE and is WELL WRITTEN...that grabs more than just the core wrestling audience. A friend of mine is a middle school teacher, and many of his kids are wrestling fans, and have never heard of TNA. The time is coming when the money will run out...and between now and then TNA needs a hook...and a NEW superstar.

On the other side of that even if TNA produces great television there's a chance that a lot of people won't give it a chance no matter what. WWE is synonymous with wrestling in a lot of peoples minds. It IS pro wrestling. We have a generation that aren't wrestling fans but WWE fans. And I think a lot of people either don't know or don't care about what a "good" wrestling show is.

ANY pro wrestling is something to be laughed at and made fun of in many peoples minds even while they watch it. Just a good time. I think wrestling is more than that but to a lot of people it ain't. A lot of older fans don't think that deeply about it and some kids just don't know any better.

As great as the "savior" Paul Heyman was ECW never got close to the levels of success or awareness that WWF or WCW had. It was always a niche product. Nothing wrong with that but thats what it was. Vince's WWF had the foundation of his fathers company to build on that was around for over 20 years before and Turners WCW was built on the foundation of the NWA/JCP which was around for almost 40 years before.

Its not easy to entrench a new brand in the public awareness...especially when a superior product is already on that is so far ahead. Right now TNA should just concentrate on being the best company they can be even if they never get numbers like WWE. They need to be an alternative with their own smaller but successful niche. Key word being alternative. Offer a GOOD product that WWE doesn't.

agreed...TNA needs to do something to attract NEW viewers...even Kurt Angle in interviews has said he runs into fans of his from the WWE days and they think he's retired or not wrestling anymore

Good product + time can fix that...but even if they do that they may not ever be as high in the public awareness as WWE.

They should have just kept WWECW. That was an hour of TV I didn't miss when it was on. Always had at least one great match, every week, guaranteed.

I think so too. As watered down as the new ECW became it was far more successful than NXT. NXT just looks like a failure in comparison. ECW could have continued on and done better numbers than Superstars or NXT.

I imagine what ECW would be now if Vince hadn't tried to change it as much as he did. It was never going to be the old ECW and didn't need to be but he made it TOO much like WWE lite. If they had kept the show they way it was that first 6 months and kept around some of the old talent to mix with new talents i think it could have been a viable third brand for a longer time.

Dixie spends all that money and TNA is still going nowhere. She knows squat about wrestling and put her faith in the wrong people. TNA needs a spring cleaning for sure.

If they would just fire Vince Russo and hire a competent head of creative it would make a HUGE difference. Dixies biggest problem is she can't see that.

I like Del Rio, but he doesn't deserve to be champ this soon. These new guys need to pay their dues!

They're kind of in a corner. They need to make new stars but you're right. Del Rio doesn't really have the credibility to be champion yet. He's got a lot of talent but they can't just GIVE him the world title. There needs to be a buildup to it. He should have had a strong IC title run first. His push just seems to be accelerating too fast.

eh...that whole "paying dues" bit is such an antiquated notion in this day and age...sure you want guys to be prepared but you also don't want to shortchange someone who so obviously is going to do well just because he hasn't been around as long

Del Rio has paid a lot of dues..but not in WWE. If a guy doesn't go through period to settle in there can be problems later on. If you give a guy too much too soon it leads to an inflated ego. Del Rio has the talent but a slower build wouldn't hurt him. The Rock wasn't even a world champion his first year in the company. They gave him some time with the IC title and let him grow naturally into that role as a new star in the company.

 

[The Sage]

eh...that whole "paying dues" bit is such an antiquated notion in this day and age...sure you want guys to be prepared but you also don't want to shortchange someone who so obviously is going to do well just because he hasn't been around as long

Plus he'll pay his dues when his push ends and starts losing week after week for no reason like everyone else these days.

 

[BlackLantern]

Plus he'll pay his dues when his push ends and starts losing week after week for no reason like everyone else these days.

in a twisted way, its a good measuring stick to use...sure youre all smiles when youre winning, but how do you act when its all taken away and you have to go out there and lay down week after week for about 3 months

some guys can handle it and are rewarded and some can't

 

[Metallo]

Plus he'll pay his dues when his push ends and starts losing week after week for no reason like everyone else these days.

Thats why I think this push is risky. If he gets too much too fast he'll have nowhere to go but down in a very short time. Look at Sheamus. I think Del Rio will be handled better than that but there are similar concerns there. Del Rio can't become a world champion so early then just stay there swapping the title back and forth forever.

in a twisted way, its a good measuring stick to use...sure youre all smiles when youre winning, but how do you act when its all taken away and you have to go out there and lay down week after week for about 3 months

some guys can handle it and are rewarded and some can't

Wouldn'tit be smarter to make him work hard working his way up the card and see how he handles it at each level over a longer period of time? If he does well and shows patience then its a good sign. Seems less risky to me than a super push to the title only to later drop him down the card so he can be jobbed out. That can kill credibility in the audiences eyes.

 

[The Sage]

in a twisted way, its a good measuring stick to use...sure youre all smiles when youre winning, but how do you act when its all taken away and you have to go out there and lay down week after week for about 3 months

some guys can handle it and are rewarded and some can't

And in this process you have some shaky looking stars who aren't credible enough.

Better to let the guy nurture his skill while raising him up the ladder instead of throwing him in the main-event for a brief period before making him lose week after week. Working up the ladder is how the biggest stars were created.

 

[Heretic]

That's the thing. I remember back in the day reading articles about "the NWO, the WWE wrestling group" and I knew then that no matter how successful a wrestling company is, it will always be overshadowed by WWE. WWE IS wrestling.

TNA is trying to succeed by doing a rather lame impression of WWE. It will never work. Instead, they should be focusing on what they already had and didnt care enough to keep.

I'm not suggesting that TNA fire all of the WWE guys. They have name value and there needs to be a "heavyweight" division. However, you can set up the main event in the opening segment, come back to it at the top of the second hour, and finish off the show with it. That leaves TONS of time to build up a real X Division and give the Knockouts some time. Everything that WWE slacks on should be included in this time...and things need to be consistent and make sense.

 

[BlackLantern]

That's the thing. I remember back in the day reading articles about "the NWO, the WWE wrestling group" and I knew then that no matter how successful a wrestling company is, it will always be overshadowed by WWE. WWE IS wrestling.

pretty much....whenever you mention any sort of wrestling to anyone they usually respond with "oh like WWF/E?" it's used as a description for the industry as a whole....kind of like how coke is used to described a soda

I'm not suggesting that TNA fire all of the WWE guys.

I am....except for Angle maybe

They have name value and there needs to be a "heavyweight" division. However, you can set up the main event in the opening segment, come back to it at the top of the second hour, and finish off the show with it. That leaves TONS of time to build up a real X Division and give the Knockouts some time. Everything that WWE slacks on should be included in this time...and things need to be consistent and make sense.

 

[Metallo]

pretty much....whenever you mention any sort of wrestling to anyone they usually respond with "oh like WWF/E?" it's used as a description for the industry as a whole....kind of like how coke is used to described a soda

Thats what I mean when I say WWE is synonymous with Wrestling in some peoples eyes.

WWE is synonymous with wrestling in a lot of peoples minds. It IS pro wrestling. We have a generation that aren't wrestling fans but WWE fans. And I think a lot of people either don't know or don't care about what a "good" wrestling show is.

WWE = Wrestling. There is nothing outside of WWE to them...and they might not even be fans of the "wrestling" part. Its just that name brand as a whole.

TNA needs to use the bigger stars and WWE/WCW names in supporting roles and mix them in with the young homegrown talent to give them the rub. The older guys are still going to draw if they aren't always in the main event. Quality by associations. Thats what ECW did with Terry Funk. Putting a homegrown ECW talent in there with him helped get that younger star over and after time they didn't need Funk as much.

Thats how Austin was build. Hart and Michaels and Roberts gave him the rub and fans got so used to liking him that when those other guys were phased out Austin could carry the load.

Thats whats hurting WWE now. That transition isn't being done as slow and as well as it was during the attitude era. When young talents like Sheamus are put up against the established talents they aren't getting that rub as easily. There was give and take with Austin and Hart. with Undertaker or HHH if a young guy is going against them they better be prepared to look a lot weaker.

 

[SuperFerret]

Just a nitpick, but to many, WWF = Wrestling. A lot of people still don't give a crap about the name change, and to be honest, it still sounds weird to me.

 

[Heretic]

Well, look at it this way...while TNA should eventually take guys like Hogan and Tommy Dreamer off the tv...they also are flooded with young guys that I don't think deserve a spot. I would trade Abyss, Crimson, Eric Young, Jesse Neal, Shannon Moore, AND Robbie E for Carlito. It isn't JUST about having young guys...there are veterans who have charisma and can carry a storyline. You could cut a good number of old and young guys and then really concentrate on who is left to build a strong roster.

 

[Metallo]

Well, look at it this way...while TNA should eventually take guys like Hogan and Tommy Dreamer off the tv...they also are flooded with young guys that I don't think deserve a spot. I would trade Abyss, Crimson, Eric Young, Jesse Neal, Shannon Moore, AND Robbie E for Carlito. It isn't JUST about having young guys...there are veterans who have charisma and can carry a storyline. You could cut a good number of old and young guys and then really concentrate on who is left to build a strong roster.

The same is true for WWE. There is a lot of young talent that could be cut and it wouldn't make much difference. The problem is there are very few good places to develop good young talent like they used to and even then the talent is forced on WWE tv far to soon. They've backed themselves into a situation where they have to take what they can and throw it at the wall and see what sticks. Ted DiBiase didn't become a regular as the Million Dollar Man until he'd already been in the business for ten years. He'd wrestled there before but not long term as a major player. Even Cena and Orton can't claim that and they are the biggest under 40 stars on WWE's roster. And it took Orton years to begin to get his sh** together.

I never said it was just about having young guys. You have to have all talents there that are willing to work hard. But you also have to have a good pool to pull those talents from. Thats not around as much as it used to be.

And Carlito? Really? Mr. Carlito "I don't give a f*** so I'm gonna not try my best and then let them fire me because I don't want to go to rehab" Caribbean Cool?

In the wrestling business persistence and dependability also count for something. Even Ted DiBiase said that. The most talent guy won't always get the push and get the success but the most dependable guy can.

Thats one reason Hogan got his spot in 1984. Thats one reason Cena got his spot in 2005. They clearly weren't the most talented but they were the horses that would pull the wagon for as long and as hard as the could while people like Snuka were skiing down coke mountain nose first and Lesnar was crying about the schedule and wanted to go play with his football.

I've seen Eric Young take sh** TNA writing and make something decent out of it. Carlito can't be bothered to go to rehab and unlazy himself. Eric's not the best but the dude will not stop trying his best. He's dependable. Thats why he's still around when so many others even in TNA are gone.

Thats why as popular as he is and as much of the it factor Jeff Hardy has he's useless to any wrestling company as long as he's dazed in the corner with his crackpipe while he's soaked in his own piss.

Cena does the same old boring rehash Hogan act but he's always there willing to give it his all. The business needs guys like that. The Cenas, The Harts, the Stings. The workhorses.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Things are not looking good for Zack Ryder, Tyler Reks, Primo and the brothers Uso

 

[Heretic]

Don't get me wrong...Carlito isn't the most trustworthy guy...and he wouldn't be a top guy in my fed until and unless he proved that he cared enough to make it happen. However, Carlito does bring charisma into the mix, and his presence would make a midcard, unknown TNA wrestler seem a bit more important.

Eric Young is loyal...but (and I could be wrong of course) I just dont see him ever drawing any money.

Heck, just look at who TNA has let go...Daniels, Austin Aries (who, as far as I'm concerned should have been one of THE top stars in WWE by now) Kaval, Homicide...they could have a fun to watch and talented midcard but instead we have guys like Rob Terry and Robbie E.

While the "main event" guys tend to be slower, more WWE style wrestlers (which is fine) they sell their matches with promos and angles. The X Division guys tend to get over more on the matches themselves. You could cut the less "exciting" wrestlers from the X Division (Eric Young, Shannon Moore, Robbie E) and put guys like Jeff Hardy and RVD in. This accomplishes two things...it frees up main event space for young guys, and it gives added interest to the X Division so that those guys can get over on big stars and headline Impact episodes so you dont have to have world title matches every single week like they were doing.

The biggest issue with the main event is that it appears to be dominated by non wrestlers. When I think of opening segments to Impact that sell a match, I think of Hogan, Bischoff and Flair...which should not be the case. Having a main event level roster of Sting, Anderson and Angle, with guys like Morgan, The Pope, Joe etc stepping in from time to time to keep it fresh and figure out who you can build your future on is actually every bit as good as what WWE is offering.