First Avenger which Invaders do you want for First Avenger Captain America?

[roach]

Agree with this 100%. I can't possibly fathom Marvel putting Namor and Android Torch into this movie. The premise is so utterly rediculous that it would crush this movie and hinder the chances of Avengers being a big hit. Cap must be the first superpowered hero in this universe or he really loses all of his importance. I mean they are calling it FIRST AVENGER after all. What the heck is so special about Cap if there is an Atlantean king and an android that can combust into flames running around?

1)Where did they say that Cap was going to be first superhuman or are we taking First AVENGER to mean he was the first superhero
2)Did Black Widow and War machine overshadow Iron Man
3)If powered being are going to over shadow Cap whats going to happen in Avengers when he as a Thunder God and a man in a tech suit and the Hulk???

 

[OB12]

1)Where did they say that Cap was going to be first superhuman or are we taking First AVENGER to mean he was the first superhero
2)Did Black Widow and War machine overshadow Iron Man
3)If powered being are going to over shadow Cap whats going to happen in Avengers when he as a Thunder God and a man in a tech suit and the Hulk???

1. That is the way it translates to me. They are obviously playing up the fact that he is the first of his kind.
2. Haven't seen IM2 yet (grrr), but I am not saying that he would be overshadowed.
3. Again, not saying he would be overshadowed, simply that his historical importance would be severely lessened if others with powers were present during his time.

I mean, really, why would the government want Stark's armor in IM2 if they have the technology to create human-like androids that can project fire at their disposal? They could just make an army of these androids. It makes no sense.

 

[roach]

1. That is the way it translates to me. They are obviously playing up the fact that he is the first of his kind.
2. Haven't seen IM2 yet (grrr), but I am not saying that he would be overshadowed.
3. Again, not saying he would be overshadowed, simply that his historical importance would be severely lessened if others with powers were present during his time.

I mean, really, why would the government want Stark's armor in IM2 if they have the technology to create human-like androids that can project fire at their disposal? They could just make an army of these androids. It makes no sense.

1)I have yet to see anything to suggest that Cap is the first superhuman...the First Avenger tag line was thrown in there to connect it to Avengers and to diminish having a movie called Captain America
2)You are missing a good movie and there are several hints to other avengers including Namor and Black Panther
3)It wouldnt be lessened if he was the leader

a mobile flamethrower vs a human tank...which do you thin the government would be after more???

 

[OB12]

1)I have yet to see anything to suggest that Cap is the first superhuman...the First Avenger tag line was thrown in there to connect it to Avengers and to diminish having a movie called Captain America
2)You are missing a good movie and there are several hints to other avengers including Namor and Black Panther
3)It wouldnt be lessened if he was the leader

a mobile flamethrower vs a human tank...which do you thin the government would be after more???

Yeah, I'm dying to go see IM2, just haven't had time yet. That said, I have no problem with hints at Namor or BP in IM2 since it is modern era. Cap should be the first, that legacy is what makes him special, his heroics should be unmatched in his era.

The idea is that if the govt has the technology to creat an android human, which seems far more advanced tech than a powered suit, then why do they care about the IM armor? They could create androids that are capable of doing whatever, not just flamethrowing.

 

[roach]

Yeah, I'm dying to go see IM2, just haven't had time yet. That said, I have no problem with hints at Namor or BP in IM2 since it is modern era. Cap should be the first, that legacy is what makes him special, his heroics should be unmatched in his era.

The idea is that if the govt has the technology to creat an android human, which seems far more advanced tech than a powered suit, then why do they care about the IM armor? They could create androids that are capable of doing whatever, not just flamethrowing.

but even in the comics Cap wasnt first...

 

[OB12]

But Marvel isn't adhering strictly to the comics. They are trying to be faithful to the comics while using what makes sense for the MCU.

 

[roach]

I am trying to figure out where the legacy of him being first comes from....

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i am still curious to see how they are going to go about the invaders angle. will they be throwing in 2-3 supered powered ones with cap/bucky. Or will it be more like guys like bucky/union jack with no powers and all that.

 

[Spider-Vader]

I doubt Fury will be a member of the Invaders or Howling Commandoes because 1.) They treated black people like dirt back then, they treated blacks in the military worse than some prisoners. 2.) The whole 'Nick Fury' is a title is all kinds of dumb.

 

[roach]

I doubt Fury will be a member of the Invaders or Howling Commandoes because 1.) They treated black people like dirt back then, they treated blacks in the military worse than some prisoners. 2.) The whole 'Nick Fury' is a title is all kinds of dumb.

1) true on the first count but they did put them in their own units...Buffalo Soldiers, Tuscgee Airmen....we'll see what they do
2) I agree

3)The guy who plays the John Stewart in the GL movie mentioned he was going in to play a young Nick Fury in Cap

 

[hippie_hunter]

If Namor and Android torch, or at least the classical depictions of them, are in, the movie will collapse. I am almost 100% positive it will just be a special black ops team, maybe with some serum enhancements although that waters down your lead character. I don't care if they tease the Torch or Namor as tongue and cheek (as long as it isn't a WTF moment), but they shouldn't be in the film. They have gone somewhat realistic with IM. You don't pay O'Reiley and all those other news hosts unless you are trying to make the universe legit. I didn't read the Thor script, but I do know they are including a scientific explanation for Asgard, but that stuff needs time to develop. The Invaders need to be elite commandos with the latest technology and nothing too out of the ordinary.

I would say that the realism in Iron Man's world is thrown out by the fact that it already has Asgardian gods and men who turn into green giants when they get angry.

Namor has already been hinted at in Iron Man 2.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i still say any fury we will see will be from present day thawning/awakening steve rogers into the 21st century. Howling comandos has already been stated that they will likely not be called HC and likely be just a group of soldiers steve works with/runs into during the film with the soliders being named after the HC characters of the comics as a nice nod to the comic fans.

As for invaders that is the thing i am stil curious to see work out. Will they make it a world where there was powered up beings in the 1940s or a thing that is just emerging and cap was the first with others coming up a bit later. But not to many to the more present 2000s period and all that. But i think we will probably end up going with peggy being a member of the film's invaders working with bucky and cap, then definately see union jack being one. Then if peggy is a member of the invaders it has been stated before we will have 6 members so that would leave two other spots left. And i am just not sure on which characters would fit best.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I would say that the realism in Iron Man's world is thrown out by the fact that it already has Asgardian gods and men who turn into green giants when they get angry.

Namor has already been hinted at in Iron Man 2.

What exactly is the tidbit? But Namor is not gonna work in a Cap movie unless they seriously showcase him in the Thor movie. He will be too out of place. Audiences who didn't already get the hammer and all the Avengers references will be even more lost if he shows up. Same with Android Torch. The Johnny Storm comparisons would not stop. I say go with Toro and give him some fancy flame throwers. If they go too high tech then it takes people out of the WW2 element.

 

[roach]

What exactly is the tidbit? But Namor is not gonna work in a Cap movie unless they seriously showcase him in the Thor movie. He will be too out of place. Audiences who didn't already get the hammer and all the Avengers references will be even more lost if he shows up. Same with Android Torch. The Johnny Storm comparisons would not stop. I say go with Toro and give him some fancy flame throwers. If they go too high tech then it takes people out of the WW2 element.

1)There was a map in the shield safe house that was showing potential members...one are was in the atlantic ocean
2)Why will Namor be out of place???
3)Marvel WW2 was full of robots and deathrays and hi tech equip...obviously they may not go that route....but Zola was cast so that may be a hint at what to expect.

 

[Webhead2006]

another thing about that shield scene from ironman 2 maybe they are from present day and panther/namor could only be around in the present modern world, and not active around the 1940s.

 

[roach]

another thing about that shield scene from ironman 2 maybe they are from present day and panther/namor could only be around in the present modern world, and not active around the 1940s.

true...however we know Marvel sticks as close to the books as possible and Namor is long lived so he could have been from WW2...BP is a manlte that is passed down from generation to generation so a Black Panther could have been involved with the film.

 

[Webhead2006]

oh yea i know that about those characters, i was just bringing up the point they could pretty much say they are present day characters and even if they were around in the 40s that they might have choosen not to take apart of the world war and all that.

 

[roach]

to me not having Namor and HT on the Invaders is the same as doing the FF without the traditional four or Avengers without the big three

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i get your feeling there roach, hopefully word will break shortly on who are going to be the other invader characters. should happen i hope before filming starts. unless said roles are not cast to right before filming or after filming has already started up.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Thor isn't in the Iron Man universe YET, but they are giving him a full movie to introduce that element into the universe. If you don't at least acknowledge Namor at some point in Thor, even after credit, he will be completely out of place in Cap. Here is a WW2 movie and now people have to buy a mutant prince from Atlantis that fights alongside the allies? I am cool with adding tidbits hinting of his existence, but without his own movie to develop that, or at least introducing him properly, it will completely kill the vibe.

 

[roach]

Thor isn't in the Iron Man universe yet and they are giving him a full movie to introduce that element into the universe. If you don't at least acknowledge Namor at some point in Thor, even after credit, he will be completely out of place in Cap. Here is a WW2 movie and now people have to buy a mutant prince from Atlantis that fights alongside the allies? I am cool with adding tidbits hinting of his existence, but without his own movie to develop that, or at least introducing him properly, it will completely kill the vibe.

why is it nessecary that a modern movie show a character who may appear in the past???
It was mentioned that that the Invaders would be apart of the second half of the movie...is that eough time to introduce him????

 

[FaT_tONle]

why is it nessecary that a modern movie show a character who may appear in the past???
It was mentioned that that the Invaders would be apart of the second half of the movie...is that eough time to introduce him????

Here it is from a GA perspective, Bucky/Steve register for the war like any other young volunteers, spare the fact that there is a Super Soldier program Rogers may be eligible for, and some dude with a Red Skull, it is pretty much in line with any other WW2 movie. Maybe there is some fancy H. Stark technology or premature genetic engineering advances, but it still works as WW2. Now throw in what is basically the Human Torch and Namor in the second act and people are just going to suspend their belief? Not gonna work... The thing with Thor is, we START in Asgard (to my knowledge). People are already put into the element. The fact that he is banished to Earth afterward as they work Asgard into the realm of Earth will be a gradual process. You can't just have Namor show up unless people know what the character is about and why he'd even be involved with the allies, and that takes up screen time.

 

[OB12]

Here it is from a GA perspective, Bucky/Steve register for the war like any other young volunteers, spare the fact that there is a Super Soldier program Rogers may be eligible for, and some dude with a Red Skull, it is pretty much in line with any other WW2 movie. Maybe there is some fancy H. Stark technology or premature genetic engineering advances, but it still works as WW2. Now throw in what is basically the Human Torch and Namor in the second act and people are just going to suspend their belief? Not gonna work... The thing with Thor is, we START in Asgard (to my knowledge). People are already put into the element. The fact that he is banished to Earth afterward as they work Asgard into the realm of Earth will be a gradual process. You can't just have Namor show up unless people know what the character is about and why he'd even be involved with the allies, and that takes up screen time.

Exactly. They would need an entirely new plot thread running throughout the movie to introduce Namor. You have to explore where he is from, who his people are, and what are his motivations for even caring about WW2. For a movie that has a lot to cover already, there is no way they try to approach Namor. I like the character and I think Marvel could make a good movie about him, but he is signficant enough that he would require his own movie prior to seeing him in anyone else's.

 

[roach]

Here it is from a GA perspective, Bucky/Steve register for the war like any other young volunteers, spare the fact that there is a Super Soldier program Rogers may be eligible for, and some dude with a Red Skull, it is pretty much in line with any other WW2 movie. Maybe there is some fancy H. Stark technology or premature genetic engineering advances, but it still works as WW2. Now throw in what is basically the Human Torch and Namor in the second act and people are just going to suspend their belief? Not gonna work... The thing with Thor is, we START in Asgard (to my knowledge). People are already put into the element. The fact that he is banished to Earth afterward as they work Asgard into the realm of Earth will be a gradual process. You can't just have Namor show up unless people know what the character is about and why he'd even be involved with the allies, and that takes up screen time.

worked for Nick Fury and Black Widow in IM2
Boba Fett in ESB

I think this discussion is just going in circles because we dont know what they are trying to do with the tone of the movie....if they go "Saving Private Ryan" then yes a man from atlantis would be out of place...as would Cap and Red Skull...if however they go with Marvel WW2 with giant robots, vampires and death rays then a merman and robot dont

 

[roach]

Exactly. They would need an entirely new plot thread running throughout the movie to introduce Namor. You have to explore where he is from, who his people are, and what are his motivations for even caring about WW2. For a movie that has a lot to cover already, there is no way they try to approach Namor. I like the character and I think Marvel could make a good movie about him, but he is signficant enough that he would require his own movie prior to seeing him in anyone else's.

wouldnt it be within Namor's character to be a dick and not answer their questions
"Where's he from?"
"No one knows...he's not real talkative...when it comes to his past."

or keeping with the books when he was an amnesiac
"He doesnt know where he comes from"