Daredevil Which Villains should appear in this TV series?

[bluerayer]

Yeah, if these series needs comic relief, Turk is far less expensive then Stilt-Man and I think DD fans like him better then Stilt-Man, mainly because Turk had been used during Frank Miller run and many people think he has been used to better comedic effect then Stilt-Man.

to Turk.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Here's my shortlist

Kingpin (confirmed)
Echo (Probably who Rosario Dawson is playing)
Elektra
Typhoid
Bullseye (both Lester and Maki Matsumoto)
Bullet
Nuke
Mister Fear
Owl
Gladiator
Ikari
Bushwhacker
Death Stalker

Keep in mind that I really, really don't want to see leap Frog or Stilt Man. Those villains need to be forgotten by time when I just listed three season's worth of antagonists who would actually be worth seeing as opposed to two who this forum seems to fixate on who'd both hog the effects budget and have never been anything more than joke villains.

I'm conflicted on Matador and Jester. Matador would only be good for around five minutes as a joke villain pulling off a heist before his invisibility power proves to be completely useless and he goes down in one punch. Jester would need to be depicted the way he was in Mark Waid's run, otherwise I'd say no.

I tend to agree with this. The only one I'd add is The Hand (Kirigi for the win!). I'm skeptical that Death Stalker would translate well. Otherwise, pretty good.

 

[Dasher10]

I tend to agree with this. The only one I'd add is The Hand (Kirigi for the win!). I'm skeptical that Death Stalker would translate well. Otherwise, pretty good.

I was assuming that by mentioning Ikari, Bulsleye and Elektra, that The Hand were implied to exist. The Hand are an organization, not a single character.

 

[CaptainWagner]

to Turk.

-Yeah, for comic relief, Turk, Leap Frog, and Matador would all be better, and more budget -friendly, than Stilt-man.


As for other villains, how about Andy Serkis for the Owl?

 

[Shakel92]

I'd be happy if Stilt-Man never shows up.

 

[Dasher10]

Oh, and the reason why I didn't mention Shotgun is because he works better as a Punisher villain. DD has a large enough rogues gallery as it is.

 

[The Overlord]

Oh, and the reason why I didn't mention Shotgun is because he works better as a Punisher villain. DD has a large enough rogues gallery as it is.

Shot Gun just redundant. The only gun themed I like from Nocenti were Buchwacker and Bullet, even Ammo was very generic. Also I would place Shot Gun in terms of interesting Punisher villains below almost any villain that appeared in Punisher Max.

Though Ammo is originally part of the Wildboys gang and I was thinking the Wildboys would make for an interesting low level threat for DD to deal with. Maybe the show can combine the Wildboys and Ammo into one threat.

Also I have mixed feelings about Death-Stalker, he may seem a little outlandish for a street level series and he almost seems like he is out of DD's league, however he does have a cool visual and interesting powers. But he has not really appeared since he died over 30 years ago, he is not a really important DD villain, I think people just liked the way he died. If they could do him well, I would not have a problem seeing him, but on the other hand, I would not be broken up if he never appears.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Putting Ammo and the Wildboys together wouldn't be a bad idea. They're good more for a cameo than anything in particular, imo.

I read a couple of Deathstalker issues that predated Miller's run (in addition to the McKenzie/Miller death of Deathstalker). To be perfectly honest, I never really got the impression that he was defeated so much as just gave up and wandered away. Not only is he out of Daredevil's league, he's out of most of Marvel's league. He's essentially invulnerable unless he chooses to be vulnerable and has gloves that kill. Why he did anything in particular that could cause him to be defeated never made much sense.

 

[The Overlord]

Putting Ammo and the Wildboys together wouldn't be a bad idea. They're good more for a cameo than anything in particular, imo.

I read a couple of Deathstalker issues that predated Miller's run (in addition to the McKenzie/Miller death of Deathstalker). To be perfectly honest, I never really got the impression that he was defeated so much as just gave up and wandered away. Not only is he out of Daredevil's league, he's out of most of Marvel's league. He's essentially invulnerable unless he chooses to be vulnerable and has gloves that kill. Why he did anything in particular that could cause him to be defeated never made much sense.

Death-Stalker died by by partial phasing through a grave stone, Death-Stalker is powerful, but he doesn't seem very bright. I think people like Death-Stalker because he has a cool look, has some cool powers and had a cool death, but that's it. He seems more like a Ghost Rider villain, then a DD one. Again I can take him or leave him, but I think the writers would have work little to make him work in this context.

I actually think the Wildboys would be useful for more then a cameo, in real life street gangs have been willing to work for the mafia. The Kingpin and his organization may be at the top of the food chain in the criminal underworld, but that doesn't mean there are not groups below Kingpin's that wouldn't take orders from and do some low level dirty work. Let's face it, the poor youth of the Marvel version of Hell's Kitchen, wouldn't end up joining Kingpin's organization, they would end up in a gang by the Wildboys. Plus it makes more sense for Kingpin to having his drugs sold through a third party like the Wildboys, it makes him one more step removed from the process. The Wildboys are good starter villains, the guys Matt deals with at first before moving up higher on the criminal food chain.

Someone like Kingpin needs disposable people to do the dreg work of the underworld, dealing with the "clientele" he has no interest in personally dealing with. Let a street gang filled with foolish young men take the risks of committing crimes in public, if they get caught so what, plenty more where they came from and if one of really proves themselves and makes their bones on the street, then they might good to rise up and join Kingpin's organization. Its like in the Wire, the Greek and his organization sold drugs to the gangs in Baltimore and the gang leaders had teenagers selling drugs on the corners. The Greek was at the top of the food chain and was untouchable, because he did business with more open third parties.

 

[Mike Murdock]

He died by partially phasing through a tombstone, yeah, but all his prior appearances were what I was talking about. He seemed to do a "foiled again" and just fade away when the more logical thing would be to go kill Daredevil. Hell, even in Grave Mistake, he paid people to kidnap Matt Murdock. Why? Why not just kill him in his sleep by appearing through a wall and touching him?

 

[seahammer]

Death-Stalker died by by partial phasing through a grave stone, Death-Stalker is powerful, but he doesn't seem very bright. I think people like Death-Stalker because he has a cool look, has some cool powers and had a cool death, but that's it. He seems more like a Ghost Rider villain, then a DD one. Again I can take him or leave him, but I think the writers would have work little to make him work in this context.

He does have a cool look. I vividly remember this cover from my brother's DD collection when we were little, and that was decades ago:

Ahh, comic book memories flooding back to me.

 

[fixxxer]

Death-Stalker died by by partial phasing through a grave stone, Death-Stalker is powerful, but he doesn't seem very bright. I think people like Death-Stalker because he has a cool look, has some cool powers and had a cool death, but that's it. He seems more like a Ghost Rider villain, then a DD one. Again I can take him or leave him, but I think the writers would have work little to make him work in this context.

I actually think the Wildboys would be useful for more then a cameo, in real life street gangs have been willing to work for the mafia. The Kingpin and his organization may be at the top of the food chain in the criminal underworld, but that doesn't mean there are not groups below Kingpin's that wouldn't take orders from and do some low level dirty work. Let's face it, the poor youth of the Marvel version of Hell's Kitchen, wouldn't end up joining Kingpin's organization, they would end up in a gang by the Wildboys. Plus it makes more sense for Kingpin to having his drugs sold through a third party like the Wildboys, it makes him one more step removed from the process. The Wildboys are good starter villains, the guys Matt deals with at first before moving up higher on the criminal food chain.

Someone like Kingpin needs disposable people to do the dreg work of the underworld, dealing with the "clientele" he has no interest in personally dealing with. Let a street gang filled with foolish young men take the risks of committing crimes in public, if they get caught so what, plenty more where they came from and if one of really proves themselves and makes their bones on the street, then they might good to rise up and join Kingpin's organization. Its like in the Wire, the Greek and his organization sold drugs to the gangs in Baltimore and the gang leaders had teenagers selling drugs on the corners. The Greek was at the top of the food chain and was untouchable, because he did business with more open third parties.

And not to mention... *whispers* he wasn't even Greek. God I miss The Wire.

I really like your idea here. If I were to speculate on the structure of the show, it would be something like what you outlined. Daredevil initially goes against low level street hustlers (Wildboys or whoever else) that are are flooding the neighborhood with drugs and violence. Maybe he initially thinks of them as idiotic, more or less inconsequential kids and just wants to scare them off. But soon thereafter there's a disproportionate, violent response that leads to quite a few deaths. Daredevil, filled with guilt and confusion, tries to make sense of it. He starts digging into who's backing all these gangs of young hoodlums. As the season progresses, he works his way up the criminal-food-chain finally landing on Kingpin.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Bas Rutten for Gladiator/Melvin Potter?

 

[bluerayer]

Bas Rutten for Gladiator/Melvin Potter?

I have watched some of his self-defense videos on Youtube and while he's got the look, he also has a pretty strong accent. Great videos by the way, check out his street defense video.

 

[Bathead]

Never mind the villains, what about guest appearances from other Marvel heroes. Do you think that's likely?

 

[OsGom]

No love for Hyde and Cobra?

Both characters could be adjusted, made less cheesy, by a good writer and fit well in a series.

Hyde, a drug addled hitman and Cobra, a flexible thug/thief.

I think cameo's will be a given, considering we're talking about Marvel. Although, I'm hoping they keep the cameos to a minimum for the majority of the series and limit them to cameos that make sense.

Plenty of DD story to tell without such devices.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I like how Hyde and Cobra genuinely hated each other. I have nothing against them, but they're not tentpoles of a season, so they're easily forgotten. To me, they fall into the same category as Ammo or the Wildboys - cool to see, but relatively the same whether they appear or not.

 

[OsGom]

How about the Born Again storyline with Nuke blowing up Hell's Kitchen and cameo's by Cap and other Avengers?

That would definitely be an event.

By far my favorite DD arc!

Although, Born Again probably shoudn't happen in Season 1. Give time for relationships and the animosity between Kingpin and DD to develop.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I've made the argument that it should be season 3. Season 2 can give time for all the other Daredevil villains to squeeze in before this story takes place (and Daredevil's life changes dramatically).

 

[Loki882]

With Karen Page having just been cast, they definitely shouldn't do Born Again in season 1. You need time to make the audience like her and buy her and Matt's connection before you have her betray him and put her through Hell.

 

[OsGom]

I would agree with Born Again in Season 3.

If we're doing the origin for Season 1, does that mean Elektra and Bullseye are Season 2? Or are they squeezing that into Season 1?

 

[metaphysician]

I think Born Again would be better held off a couple more seasons. Something along the lines of. . . Season 1 is the origin, Season 2 is Death of Elektra, Season 3 is the Chaste and the Hand, and Season 4 is Born Again.

( those being simplifications, with other stuff happening, sure, but those being the main arcs )

 

[Mike Murdock]

I would agree with Born Again in Season 3.

If we're doing the origin for Season 1, does that mean Elektra and Bullseye are Season 2? Or are they squeezing that into Season 1?

Dunno, lots of possibilities. I posted my idea for season 1 earlier. Before the real season one kills my whole idea, I'm going to post one for season 2 as well.

The storyline is about far more than the villains, but my idea was basically this:

First Season - Beginning of Daredevil, rise of the Kingpin, involves Kingpin, Bullseye, Gladiator, Mr. Fear, Eric Slaughter, the Fixer (I think that's mostly it).

Second Season (Kingpin falls during the Defenders) - Lowlife gang leaders fighting over the Kingpin's empire (Ammo and the Wildboys, The Owl), Typhoid Mary, possible rebirth of Elektra, the Hand, the Kingpin takes over again while Matt Murdock is distracted.

Third Season - Born Again. Kingpin and Nuke are the only real villains if you think about it. I might be able to squeeze in Bullet and Bushwhacker, but, really, the story should be touched as little as possible.

 

[Hypestyle]

Regarding Elektra, I’ve never been all that invested in the “coolness” of the character. At this point, I’ve either forgotten or I never got to read the original “Elektra saga” stories among the Daredevil back issues I had picked up at one point. I halfway remember having a few copies of the 1980s mini-series that Miller did with Bill Sienkiewicz—but beyond Mr. Sienkiewicz’s cool artwork, it didn’t stand out to me. I liked Jennifer Garner’s portrayal well enough in the two films, but that’s about as far as it goes.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Well, Elektra's original stories are the only ones that really matter. Maybe it's worth actually seeing them before deciding one way or the other? Even just "Elektra" and "Spiked" would be solid enough.