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Discussion in 'Spider-Man Sequels' started by Silvermoth, Aug 22, 2019.
who was to blame for Spider-Man leaving the mcu in your opinion?
I blame @Spider-Aziz. He should have stopped this from happening.
Looking at the facts we know, I'd place the majority of the blame on Disney.
Yes, I want Spidey in the MCU , and I ultimately think Sony would be making a mistake walking away from the MCU at this point. I also tend to think Sony will drive the franchise right back into the ground.
That said, looking at things not as a fan , but looking at both sides claims, there's no way any studio could take the current deal Disney wants, especially with an IP like Spiderman. Its just not gonna happen, regardless of fan anger.
As far as the PR war goes with fanboys, Disney is winning. Disney is winning because
1)fandom distrusts Sony given their past history,
2)because alot of fans and geek pundits don't know or understand the implication in Sony agreeing to the new offer, and
3) there are fans who don't care about the contract stuff, and just want to Spiderman remain in the MCU regardless.
Each party has it faults, but Sony is so terrible that I can forgive Disney for most of their end.
Based on Rothman's alleged comments I'm going Sony. But if both sides really wanted it, I'm sur the deal would get done.
Disney was bringing, context, adjacent properties, backstory, oversight, additional visibility in non SM movie years, MCU characters, and 50% financing to the table.
Sony was bringing 50% of the financing, use of Spider-man in the MCU, and distribution.
Disney brought more to the table, they should get a bigger stake.
If I had to choose 1 depends on which of these upposed scenarios is true
1. Disney offered 50/50 cofinance deal for ALL Sony marvel properties ...bad Disney bad!
2. Disney offered 70/30 split and Sony never gave a counter offer over current 5% deal ..... bad Sony bad!
To me the truth is somewhere in the middle .
Piecing together the reports from THR, Deadline, and other news outlets this is the timeline of what likely happened:
Disney’s and Sony’s original deal had concluded after “Far From Home” where Disney was compensated 5% of every first dollar and Kevin Feige oversaw both of Sony’s Spider-man films but did not get any producer fee from Sony.
When it was time to renegotiate a new deal, Sony asked Feige to bring their Sony properties, specifically Venom, into the MCU and him to oversee their future Spider-centric projects. Fiege who had been noticeably hesitant in interviews last year to include Venom in the MCU, began opening up to the idea. But having more movies added to his already full plate, Feige understandably is not going to want to spend a lot of his time working for Sony, not only in their next Spider-man films but now also for Venom and all their other upcoming films for the same “pro bono” rate he did for the last two Spidey films.
Disney steps in and tells Sony if they want Feige, a Disney employee, to go to another studio and oversee all their upcoming Spider films including integrating them all into the MCU, they would like to see a 50/50 split on financing and revenue.
Sony who had been paying Disney only 5% balked at that request, possibly hoping Feige could do the extra work for the same rate from the previous deal they had in place.
Negotiations between the two inevitably went as far down as Disney not wanting to go any lower than 30% and Sony still refusing. Deal breaks down.
Sony then issued a statement that Spider-man can no longer be part of the MCU because Feige is too busy working on Disney’s new IPs.
If what @Jordanstine pieced together is right then Sony really asked a lot. They basically wanted Fiege to run their universe, and it's attachment to the MCU for a 5% fee. Sort of ridiculous.
I can see why Disney wanted what they did. Fiege would essentially have been doing Sony's job for them, and still giving them the benefit of the future of the MCU on top of it.
That Venom film isn't great, and really wasn't setup properly to interface with Spider-man. I could see Fiege wanting a different one to bring in. He's got to be smart enough to know you don't do a Venom origin w/o Spider-man. He's basically one of us.
I never realized I was this popular in the blame department.
After reading everything I could on this I'm going with Sony. Disney isn't an angel but that it's in general as a corporation. As far as actual Marvel Studios, I don't think they are necessarily in the wrong.
Also. I read that recent article with Stan Lee's daughter backing Sony in this. Hahaha!
She is absolutely full of *** on so many levels. They totally respected Stan Lee and gave him due credit. She's backing the wrong horse.
As someone else posted, Sony thinks they learned enough from Kevin Feige to do better. Hahaha, I don't want Sony to go under like some do because so many undeserving people would lose their jobs but I do WANT their future Spidey (and spin-off) films to either bomb or not make a profit. I truly don't believe they will keep the quality going. Only reason I feel the very first two films they made were good was due to Sam Raimi. Once Avi Arad forced Venom on Raimi that movie became a bloated mess. I think we would have had a solid trilogy there if Raimi was left alone.
Sony gonna' Sony. Oh but things are going to be alright because we'll finally see a live action version of Carnage. *epic eye roll*.
Sony this smells of their incompetent dealings that ran Men in Black, Spider-Man and to an extent James Bond.
Ugh I'm so upset with the stupidity of this company . I can't express
New Forbes article saying that Sony Pictures will eventually be sold and that Spidey reverts back to Marvel without Sony seeing a dime back:
How The Marvel-Sony 'Spider-Man' Dispute Will Be Solved One Way Or Another [Updated]
This is the best article I've read on the matter thus far.
Sony Japan might just say f this lol
Interesting article. I know Sony's had a lot of financial issues over the years. They want aggressive revenue and minimal risk. I am a bit confused about this merchandising thing Sony supposedly gave up (merchandising just around the theatrical films had the rights to before Homecoming?). Still, I read Disney stands to make profits off of Spiderman merchandise at their parks but may just not make merchandising profits now from the movies? When I understand moreso on what Sony has to gain and what they otherwise wouldn't and the financial situation the studio is in, it does make them seem a bit less villain like.
That being said, Disney I'm sure isn't happy with their minimal risk strategy involving churning out crowd pleasing monster based hero movies that can very well create attention as well as competition to Marvel Studio's slate to some degree. They're being aggressive. All that merchandising money and changing 1st day 5% to 30% to 50%without putting up production costs and also trying to put a cap on the amount of spinoffs through shepharding them along when it's their turn. Still, I don't feel there's a very clear villain yet...
100% merchandise money
5% box office money whilst not having to spend a penny
Spider-Man appearing in your event movies and you retain 100% of the box office
That is a sweet arse deal. Only greed is making Disney want to renegotiate their terms for more money.
Disney is on course to have 8 - billion-dollar movies this year.
Edit: Just read the THR report. Okay, that muddies the waters a little.
Sony Pictures. Watch them crash and burn in a few years and beg Disney for Marvel Studios to cooperate in another Spider-Man movie, to salvage their company.
I'm hearing conflicting stories about the rights reverting.
Some people are saying the rights are non-transferable and others are saying the rights transfer to the new company.
Yeah I think both companies are gaming the public conversation a bit. Whispers and daggers in the wind.
For the record though I blame Sony. 30% is more than generous for a character they didn’t even create plus they could have cashed in by promoting at Disneyland and Disney plus. That easily would have earned them millions if not a billion more
Sony bought the rights fair and square and has spent billions making Spider-Man movies, of which 2 of those movies (SM2/Into the Spider-Verse) are a masterpiece. Blame Marvel for not including an expiry date for the rights when they sold them.
Nah 5% way too low and Sony knows that which is why they offered that 25% deal the 5% thing was old news
But Disney was keen to leave the deal supposedly they were literally at a 5% difference
They supposedly want Feige to concentrate on Fox properties because they are freaking out about Dark Phoenix bombing....
if anything this is Simon Kinbergs fault lmao.
This is likely a very complicated matter and we're not privy to all of the details, but as an outsider looking in my gut is to side with Sony here.
I know there is no reason to expect Disney to just walk away from money, but the fact of the matter is they may close out 2019 with nearly $10 billion dollars at the box office. And they just acquired another studio's entire catalogue of IPs, including some additional Marvel ones. They are stupid rich. So if either party could afford to be a bit more accommodating in terms of the financial arrangements with Spider-Man, it's Disney. If they think there's a long-term benefit to having Spider-Man in the MCU, even going beyond the movies themselves, be willing to bend a little. I think the studio that holds Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, and Avatar will be OK in the end.
For Disney to get what they wanted, (which I'm skeptical now that they really want a deal given the revelations in Variety about Disney's motivations ), they'd basically just have to out and out buy the character from Sony.
At this point, post Fox, I'm skeptical they want to make another huge purchase that soon. At the same time Sony isn't desperate or crazy enough to give up their golden goose.
I think this is going to have to go all the way to the top with Iger and Yoshida