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Who is the real leader of the free world now?

Who is the leader of the free world now?

  • Angela Merkel (Germany)

  • Emmanuel Macron (France)

  • Justin Trudeau (Canada)

  • Theresa May (U.K.)

  • Vladimir Putin (Russia)

  • Le Keqiang (China)

  • Narendra Modi (India)

  • Jean-Claude Juncker (European Union)

  • Shinzo Abe (Japan)

  • Barack Obama still has a huge amount of power

  • Still Donald Trump

  • Someone else

  • No-one

  • The illuminati


Results are only viewable after voting.

Silvermoth

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Perhaps that thread title should be "who is the most influential" but I wanted something that would grab people's attention.

Anyway, I think it's Merkel although I could see a coalition of sorts between Trudeau, macron and her being the real leader of the free world
 
Who else voted for The illuminati?
 
This is a funny question...if the leader is powerful enough, is it the free world anymore?
 
I can't stand Justin Trudeau, but I am amused to see Canada represented on this list so I voted for his dumb ass. I'd but the bond ratings agencies on this list though.
 
I can't stand Justin Trudeau, but I am amused to see Canada represented on this list so I voted for his dumb ass. I'd but the bond ratings agencies on this list though.

I don't see the point of hating Trudeau, he is just another mediocre politician who coasted on his dad's name, presented an overly optimistic vision of the future and has done actually very little. Someone called him bargain basement Obama.

I don't find him offensive, the same way I don't find the colour beige offensive. Really he comes off as good compared to Trump or Stephen Harper.

Let's face it, the title leader of the world is outdated, free nations are free to pursue their own path, they don't need a leader. That title should have been retired in 1991.
 
I don't see the point of hating Trudeau, he is just another mediocre politician who coasted on his dad's name, presented an overly optimistic vision of the future and has done actually very little. Someone called him bargain basement Obama.

He's not a bargain-basement Obama. He's a better-looking, polite Trump.

- Born into privilege
- Bad temper, easily triggered
- Communicates mainly through social media
- Married a women mainly for her looks
- Severely underqualified, but managed to be elected head of government
 
Xi Jinping should be ahead of Li Keqiang as he's way more powerful a figure. Similar to Pink, I'd add the US Fed to the list. 'Leader of the free world' is a western-centric holdover so doesn't have much weight in Asia. And probably no one leader is held in such esteem here -- every leader is disliked in some measure.
 
He's not a bargain-basement Obama. He's a better-looking, polite Trump.

- Born into privilege
- Bad temper, easily triggered
- Communicates mainly through social media
- Married a women mainly for her looks
- Severely underqualified, but managed to be elected head of government

Meh, he's barely done anything, which is why I am not offended by him. I am more annoyed by his coasting and lack of real action, then I am not offended by anything he has done.

I also think Trudeau has far matter manners then Trump is, he has never actively slammed Trump despite it being tempting (but would accomplish nothing but momentary emotional satisfaction) and I think he is far more patient then Trump. He apologized for that stupid "elbow gate" thing 3 times, something Trump would never do.

I also don't think he is stupid like some people claim, he may not be a super genius, but emotionally intelligence is an underrated skill (something Trump doesn't have).

I think Trudeau is a nice guy, but I do not see any sort of really ambitious policy moves from him, he just seems to stay the course a lot of the time from the previous government.

I don't hate him or see the point of the hate, but I don't love him either.
 
Simply put, there isn't one.

- Trump has made clear that he has no desire to lead 50 % of this country, much less the world. Same with Theresa May. She may not be as divisive as Trump in the UK, but she has also made very clear that her agenda is UK-centric and that she wants the UK to take a step back from the international stage.

- Merkel, as much as I like her and as popular as she is, lacks one key thing: a permanent place with veto authority on the UN Security Council. Germany does not have it and never will. That limits Merkel's influence on the international stage in a big way. Plus she has an re-election campaign breathing down her neck. One that is tighter than expected. She'll win, but it will preoccupy here.

- Trudeau may be well liked but Canada simply does not have the influence or power needed to lead the free world. Plus Trudeau seems to like the idea of being liked but also seems to have no desire to exert any influence. He seems content to be a middle of the road, well liked, modest, neutral celebrity. He is first term Obama, with none of the power of the US behind him.

- Marcon, who does have a permanent spot on the UN Security Council with veto authority, is too green to really go toe-to-toe with the likes of Putin and Xi Jinping. It could be him, in time. But its too soon to say.

- Xi Jinping and Putin are not leaders of free countries, much less the free world.

Right now, there really just isn't one. There has been talk of a sort of coalition between Merkel and Marcon. But their partnership cannot be indefinite. Eventually, no matter how strong of an alliance exists, Germany and France will have competing interests. This is important because their politics are pretty different. Merekl is a conservative (albeit a European conservative, which is basically an American Democrat) and Marcon is a socialist. So when that time comes, when they hit a fork in the road where their interests and ideologies clash, we will see where their priorities are and what they view their place in the world to be.
 
I'm so glad to see Merkel is leading on the list
 
No one. There is no Free World, not really. There are Western Democracies, all but one of which (Canada) are in the Eastern Hemisphere, which is ironic-the only Democratic First World country (AKA "The West") in the West is Canada, because the US is not a First World country and it's not a Democracy, either. The US is a weird, 1.5 or Second World type country, not quite a Third World country but lacking too many things like Universal Health Care, voting rights, worker's rights, a welfare state, and gun control to be considered a First World country.

Of the 5 permanent UN security council members, three of them (US, Russia, China) are not even advanced countries and they are all pretty much harmful to the world. The UK is limited in it's power and they've nearly lost their minds as badly as we have, and France is the only decent country of the bunch. Much like America, the UN could use a reboot because the countries that are actually ran well and should be the models for the rest of the world have limited power in it.

I would say that since Germany is the most important country in the EU that Angela Merkel is the world leader that is in the best position to do good. So she is the closest thing there is to a leader of the free world we have now.
 
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No one. There is no Free World, not really. There are Western Democracies, all but one of which (Canada) are in the Eastern Hemisphere, which is ironic-the only Democratic First World country (AKA "The West") in the West is Canada, because the US is not a First World country and it's not a Democracy, either. The US is a weird, 1.5 or Second World type country, not quite a Third World country but lacking too many things like Universal Health Care, voting rights, worker's rights, a welfare state, and gun control to be considered a First World country.

Of the 5 permanent UN security council members, three of them (US, Russia, China) are not even advanced countries and they are all pretty much harmful to the world. The UK is limited in it's power and they've nearly lost their minds as badly as we have, and France is the only decent country of the bunch. Much like America, the UN could use a reboot because the countries that are actually ran well and should be the models for the rest of the world have limited power in it.

I would say that since Germany is the most important country in the EU that Angela Merkel is the world leader that is in the best position to do good. So she is the closest thing there is to a leader of the free world we have now.

Your angsty misanthropy is so tiresome and not even a modicum as intelligent as you seem to think it is.
 
Settle down Matt, everyone's views are welcome and he wasn't being rude
 
I never said he was being rude, nor did I say his views are not welcome. Simply that his angsty "woe is me, the world is ending" cynicism in every thread is both tiresome and has the intellectual depth of a high school student who has completed a semester of philosophy class and suddenly thinks he is the smartest person on Earth, and is "so much deeper than all of the sheep."
 
I certainly do not think it takes any sort of special genius to point out the US is missing those five things I pointed out and all the other countries in the "Free World" have them.

I do not think the world is ending, I just think the US has exposed it's flaws with Trump's election and it's fair to point out that our failures as a society and our Government's flaws as an institution led to him winning.
 
DC seems to have finally made a good movie. Maybe the world is ending. :)
 
The only true leader:

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I certainly do not think it takes any sort of special genius to point out the US is missing those five things I pointed out and all the other countries in the "Free World" have them.

I do not think the world is ending, I just think the US has exposed it's flaws with Trump's election and it's fair to point out that our failures as a society and our Government's flaws as an institution led to him winning.

When you say that the United States is a "1.5 world or second world country" you lose all credibility, come off as if you are screaming "the sky is falling," and yes, make yourself sound like a whiny, angsty, teenage, misanthrope, with about as much intelligence as one. Especially since the First World classification is not measured by any of the criteria you lay out in your post. You said:

"[The United States is] lacking too many things like Universal Health Care, voting rights, worker's rights, a welfare state, and gun control to be considered a First World country."

Literally none of those things are measurements of First World classification. The term First World is generally used as a measurement of economic and industrial advancement, combined with standard of living, and political stability. So let's break those down, one by one:

Economic and Industrial Advancement - United States has the second highest GDP in the world, second only to China, but greatly outpaces China in terms of GDP per capita. The United States economy represents 24.5 % of the gross world product (making it the largest economic state in the world). While the United States has moved past traditional industry, it is a technology and science leader. The United States is sitting on abundance of natural resources. Finally, it has probably the most stable economic infrastructure on Earth. There is no question that the United States meets First World standards in terms of the economy. In fact, the United States sets the bar.

Political Stability - One may disagree with outcome of the election or the current state of the electorate, but the country's political stability is just fine. We are not a country on the brink of civil war or constantly facing down the possibility of a military coup, which is how First/Second/Third World classification is measured.

Standard of Living - I saved this one for last because it seems to be where most of your (made up) criteria stems from (or can at least be broadly categorized as). According to the most recent OECD (Oganization for Economic Cooperation and Development) he US ranks second in the world in terms of average annual wages. A 2014 OECD study also shows that the United States has the second largest welfare program in the world. As to healthcare, I am guessing you are relying on one of those memes you've read on Facebook (which seems to be the depth of your understanding of nuanced issues) that says how the United States has the worst health care in the developed world." The key portion of that sentence is "in the developed world." The World Health Organization consistently ranks the US in the late teens and early twenties in terms of quality and quantity of healthcare services provided. That ain't bad. Especially for a country with a population of our size and several competing interests stemming from said large population.

I'm sorry but this statement irks me so damn much. There is just something incredibly ignorant and privileged about calling the United States a Second World country. If you want to see what a Second World country looks like go to Kazakhstan or Bosnia. The Second World is used to describe countries that suffered political and economic instability due to Soviet influence (and most of which, but not all of which were part of Soviet Bloc). The Second World is used to describe countries that are still sort of in the tipping point of First World and Third World. They have stable, albeit very fragile economic and political stability and standard of living is relatively fairly low. To compare any of the inadequacies of the United States to that of a country like Kazakhstan is so disrespectful to what real suffering looks like.

Even using your flimsy criteria, that you seem to have pulled out of your ass, the United States is no where close to a second world country.

"Gun control" for example (and I really don't know where you came up with the notion that this is criteria for First World status)...the United States may have liberal gun control policies (as we should, considering it is an enumerated right in our Constitution). But we also have a fairly low per capita gun homicide rate. The United States has a rate of 3.2 homicides per 100,000 guns. Compare that to a higher country like Honduras which has 68.43 gun related homicides per 100,000 guns, despite having only 6.2 firearms per 100 people (conversely, the United States has 88 per 100 people). Gun control is not a reflection of gun violence, which is the true measure of stability (which First/Second/Third World classifications are meant to measure).

Same with worker's rights. To compare the United States to a Second World country in terms of worker's rights is absurd. The United States, due to its foundation in free market capitalism, may lag behind the rest of the DEVELOPED world in terms of worker's rights. But it is still streets ahead of the Second and Third Worlds. A 40 hour work week and a low minimum wage is not the type of worker's rights issues you see in Second World countries. CHILD LABOR AND NO WORKPLACE SAFETY STANDARDS ARE THE TYPE OF VIOLATIONS YOU SEE. To compare the conditions of worker's rights in the United States to countries that employ CHILD LABOR is ****ing asinine and idiotic.

No matter what criteria you use, the United States is no where near a second world country. The United States is not a "1.5 World country." The United States is a privileged country. It remains one of the strongest, most robust and secure economies and political microcosms on Earth. To say anything less is disrespectful to countries that are enduring ACTUAL suffering.

In summation, you really should think before you speak and stop throwing around terms you don't understand. Because as I said, it makes you come off as whiny, misanthropic, and poorly educated.
 
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The answer is no one.

Germany has no desire to be world leaders. Germany since reunification has been reluctant to step into a leadership role. Germans favor partnerships like the EU.

I don't think Justin Trudeau has much influence. I like Canada but it is one of those countries that flies under the radar most of the time when it comes to the world stage.

Emmanuel Macron is very vocal and he doesn't seem like he is going to take s*** from anyone. Macron has already shown he won't play around with his encounters with Trump and Putin.

Japan has been economically stagnant and inward looking for years. Because of their culture I don't see them being world leaders anytime soon.

Lots of nations want to do business with China/India but I don't see many of them wanting to follow their lead on much.

Vladimir Putin is a lightening rod for Alt-Right/Far-Right types that love his nationalism, xenophobic/homophobic/sexist views and wannabe tough man persona. Putin is too much of a divisive figure to lead the world. I'm not sure what happens to Russia once Putin goes because he and his cronies effectively run the country for years. Putin has centralized power in a way not too dissimilar to dictatorships. Russia may face some sort of collapse again once Putin is gone.
 
When you say that the United States is a "1.5 world or second world country" you lose all credibility, come off as if you are screaming "the sky is falling," and yes, make yourself sound like a whiny, angsty, teenage, misanthrope, with about as much intelligence as one. Especially since the First World classification is not measured by any of the criteria you lay out in your post. You said:

"[The United States is] lacking too many things like Universal Health Care, voting rights, worker's rights, a welfare state, and gun control to be considered a First World country."

Literally none of those things are measurements of First World classification. The term First World is generally used as a measurement of economic and industrial advancement, combined with standard of living, and political stability. So let's break those down, one by one:

Economic and Industrial Advancement - United States has the second highest GDP in the world, second only to China, but greatly outpaces China in terms of GDP per capita. The United States economy represents 24.5 % of the gross world product (making it the largest economic state in the world). While the United States has moved past traditional industry, it is a technology and science leader. The United States is sitting on abundance of natural resources. Finally, it has probably the most stable economic infrastructure on Earth. There is no question that the United States meets First World standards in terms of the economy. In fact, the United States sets the bar.

Political Stability - One may disagree with outcome of the election or the current state of the electorate, but the country's political stability is just fine. We are not a country on the brink of civil war or constantly facing down the possibility of a military coup, which is how First/Second/Third World classification is measured.

Standard of Living - I saved this one for last because it seems to be where most of your (made up) criteria stems from (or can at least be broadly categorized as). According to the most recent OECD (Oganization for Economic Cooperation and Development) he US ranks second in the world in terms of average annual wages. A 2014 OECD study also shows that the United States has the second largest welfare program in the world. As to healthcare, I am guessing you are relying on one of those memes you've read on Facebook (which seems to be the depth of your understanding of nuanced issues) that says how the United States has the worst health care in the developed world." The key portion of that sentence is "in the developed world." The World Health Organization consistently ranks the US in the late teens and early twenties in terms of quality and quantity of healthcare services provided. That ain't bad. Especially for a country with a population of our size and several competing interests stemming from said large population.

I'm sorry but this statement irks me so damn much. There is just something incredibly ignorant and privileged about calling the United States a Second World country. If you want to see what a Second World country looks like go to Kazakhstan or Bosnia. The Second World is used to describe countries that suffered political and economic instability due to Soviet influence (and most of which, but not all of which were part of Soviet Bloc). The Second World is used to describe countries that are still sort of in the tipping point of First World and Third World. They have stable, albeit very fragile economic and political stability and standard of living is relatively fairly low. To compare any of the inadequacies of the United States to that of a country like Kazakhstan is so disrespectful to what real suffering looks like.

Even using your flimsy criteria, that you seem to have pulled out of your ass, the United States is no where close to a second world country.

"Gun control" for example (and I really don't know where you came up with the notion that this is criteria for First World status)...the United States may have liberal gun control policies (as we should, considering it is an enumerated right in our Constitution). But we also have a fairly low per capita gun homicide rate. The United States has a rate of 3.2 homicides per 100,000 guns. Compare that to a higher country like Honduras which has 68.43 gun related homicides per 100,000 guns, despite having only 6.2 firearms per 100 people (conversely, the United States has 88 per 100 people). Gun control is not a reflection of gun violence, which is the true measure of stability (which First/Second/Third World classifications are meant to measure).

Same with worker's rights. To compare the United States to a Second World country in terms of worker's rights is absurd. The United States, due to its foundation in free market capitalism, may lag behind the rest of the DEVELOPED world in terms of worker's rights. But it is still streets ahead of the Second and Third Worlds. A 40 hour work week and a low minimum wage is not the type of worker's rights issues you see in Second World countries. CHILD LABOR AND NO WORKPLACE SAFETY STANDARDS ARE THE TYPE OF VIOLATIONS YOU SEE. To compare the conditions of worker's rights in the United States to countries that employ CHILD LABOR is ****ing asinine and idiotic.

No matter what criteria you use, the United States is no where near a second world country. The United States is not a "1.5 World country." The United States is a privileged country. It remains one of the strongest, most robust and secure economies and political microcosms on Earth. To say anything less is disrespectful to countries that are enduring ACTUAL suffering.

In summation, you really should think before you speak and stop throwing around terms you don't understand. Because as I said, it makes you come off as whiny, misanthropic, and poorly educated.


To be fair, while everything you said is true, there are many studies that show how statistically, the reality on the ground for much of the population looks very close to so-called second world countries. The way that wealth in particular is distributed as well as access to even basic services when graphed is pretty much identical to much more economically depressed areas of the world. The statistical measure for for income inequality for instance is called the GINI. The United States has a similar GINI score (45.0) to counrites like Jamaica (45.5), Peru (45.3) and Iran (44.5), the top 30% for income inequality in the world. Those kinds of inequality measures have all kinds of implications for quality of life standards and are often used as indicators for world health organizations.

What drags one of the most economically robust and stable countries in the world down into the "tweens and twenties" on lists of measures of quality of life the the shameful reality of 10s of millions of people living in poverty.



The overall statistics about the United States mask and ignore how economically depressed so much of the nation has been for decades. The "robust economy" of the United States overall doesn't really mean much in rural Mississippi or East St Louis.
 
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To be fair, while everything you said is true, there are many studies that show how statistically, the reality on the ground for much of the population looks very close to so-called second world countries. The way that wealth in particular is distributed as well as access to even basic services when graphed is pretty much identical to much more economically depressed areas of the world. The statistical measure for for income inequality for instance is called the GINI. The United States has a similar GINI score (45.0) to counrites like Jamaica (45.5), Peru (45.3) and Iran (44.5), the top 30% for income inequality in the world. Those kinds of inequality measures have all kinds of implications for quality of life standards and are often used as indicators for world health organizations.

What drags one of the most economically robust and stable countries in the world down into the "tweens and twenties" on lists of measures of quality of life the the shameful reality of 10s of millions of people living in poverty.



The overall statistics about the United States mask and ignore how economically depressed so much of the nation has been for decades. The "robust economy" of the United States overall doesn't really mean much in rural Mississippi or East St Louis.

GINI scores cover wealth distribution, if I'm not mistaken. While I agree that there is disproportionate wealth distribution in this country and a great deal of poverty, we should still contextualize. Poverty in Mississippi, no matter how bad, is nothing compared to poverty in a place like Kazakhstan or another Second World country.

That was my overall point. To compare the United States to a Second World Country in any sense, just screams of, well, First World privilege/ignorance.
 
GINI scores cover wealth distribution, if I'm not mistaken. While I agree that there is disproportionate wealth distribution in this country and a great deal of poverty, we should still contextualize. Poverty in Mississippi, no matter how bad, is nothing compared to poverty in a place like Kazakhstan or another Second World country.

That was my overall point. To compare the United States to a Second World Country in any sense, just screams of, well, First World privilege/ignorance.

The GINI equation is used for both wealth and income distributions. The numbers I posted were specifically about income though, from the CIA factbook site.

In general though the old "First, Second, Third" world classifications have lost most of their original meaning. Oddly really only "First" and "Third" really get thrown around any more.
 
Did somebody actually use the term "welfare state" meaning to imply it as an inherently positive characteristic…?
 
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