Who owns Fantastic Four now?

[WilliamK99]

Any word on if Fox ended up selling the rights to F4 yet back to Marvel? I ask because after Phase 3 ends, it would be awesome to have Doom be the big baddie for Phase 4,5,6....

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Fox still owns it now. They still have X-Men to make money so they should sell to Marvel. Let them make proper movie with the F4.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The only thing we know officially is that, when rumors started that Fox had traded the FF rights to Marvel for permission to do X-Men TV shows and a 2020 Marvel FF film was being planned, both Fox and Marvel denied it.

Something dramatic happened in the relationship between Fox and Marvel last fall. Kevin Feige took over responsibilities that Ike Perlmutter had previously managed (And Ike Perlmutter was infamous for his cheapness and dislike of Fox. While we don't know the details, it's likely that Marvel, led by Perlmutter, was in serious negotiations to obtain the FF rights prior to the Trank Fiasco getting started, but they couldn't come to a deal and Perlmutter apparently had issues with Fox after that - reportedly having tantrums, tearing down FF posters and cancelling FF comics to spite Fox).

Shortly after FF failed, we learned of management changes, a deal to allow Fox to make two TV shows and a clear dramatic thawing in the relationship. While Marvel may not have complete control (or they could and they're just waiting for the right time to announce) it seems much more likely than it was previously that Fox and Marvel could (or perhaps already have) come to a sharing agreement similar to the Sony deal - at a minimum.

One thing I found interesting is that after Den of Geek published the rumor, and then denied it, they then published an explanation/apology:

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/fantastic-four/37400/fantastic-four-den-of-geek-a-letter-to-readers

While the primary purpose of the apology seems to be to explain why they reported something that turned out to be wrong, they emphasize in it that the source they had was reliable.

I think it would be foolish to not assume there's more going on between Fox and Marvel involving these rights than has been made public at this moment.

For Fox to keep the rights, they would have to be in active production within six years from today - and after what happened last time, fans and shareholders might burn down Fox headquarters if that happened.

So Fox either has to come to some agreement with Marvel or lose the rights and get nothing for them.

Based on everything I know, I suspect some agreement has already been reached and we might learn more at Comic-Con. If not, I'll continue counting down the days until Fox loses the rights naturally.

I haven't given up hope that I'll see a decent FF film before I die.

 

[Boom]

I'm at the point where I'll be genuinely surprised if Fantastic Four is not a part of Marvel's Phase Four.

Fox's time with the property is done.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm still not so sure. Wouldnt surprise me either way with Fox.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm at the point where I'll be genuinely surprised if Fantastic Four is not a part of Marvel's Phase Four.

Fox's time with the property is done.

My brain tells me Marvel has or soon will have the ability to use key FF characters in upcoming films.

But my heart has been disappointed so many times it's hard to believe it ever really could happen.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm still not so sure. Wouldnt surprise me either way with Fox.

Your avatar reminds me of how I felt when I saw the Dr. Strange trailer this morning: "Damn it! Why does it seem we'll never see anything like this for FF?"

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

. . . but also when I see something like the Dr. Strange trailer, it's clear the Marvel "gets it" . . . and if they get it, they understand the FF and what they can be . . . and hopefully they'll do everything in their power to finally give us a real FF film.

 

[Zarex]

Both FOX and Marvel have confirmed a deal was made granting Murdock's company television rights to Marvel's X-Men IP that were not previously conveyed in the original 1993 agreement. Unless we suspect that Disney - DISNEY! - granted a competitor those rights solely in exchange for a minority stake in the "Legion" and "Hellfire" television shows (while also increasing the competition in a very crowded market for comic book based TV programming), then the Mouse got IP rights in exchange.

With the FF rights worthless to FOX due to FFINO's miserable performance and the attractiveness of cheaper superhero alternatives centered around the wildly successful Deadpool IP, I would be stunned if the FF either were at Marvel or were on their way back home.

 

[pixen]

Every time Fox makes a Fantastic Four movie, it renews the rights and they have a certain amount of years left to make another before it runs out. That's what happened to Daredevil/Elektra. Elektra came out in 2005 and the rights reverted back after 7-8 years or so. With the new FF movie out in 2015, it still has some time left until it goes back.

Now, there's a chance Marvel and Fox sat down and tried to figure out a way to get those rights back by swapping or allowing Fox to use something for one of the X-Men films that they originally couldnt. Though the relationship between those two studios isn't anywhere near as friendly as Marvel is with Sony.

 

[First Avenger]

. . . but also when I see something like the Dr. Strange trailer, it's clear the Marvel "gets it" . . . and if they get it, they understand the FF and what they can be . . . and hopefully they'll do everything in their power to finally give us a real FF film.

Also every Civil War review is gushing over Black Panther and Spider-Man especially. They made Daredevil an household name. Of course they would kill it with F4.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I would've said it wasn't likely before. But now that Feige is the boss and not Perlmutter, Fant4stic bombed as hard as it did, Marvel doing some Deadpool marketing and rereleasing the video game for the movie, the Legion and Hellfire shows and now Tim Miller and Simon Kinberg saying they'd be open to a Deadpool/Spider-Man crossover, how they "have been trying to build bridges.” and how close they are with Feige, the Fox/Marvel relationship seems to be improving while there's almost no way Fox can make a succesful FF movie within a short timespan.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Anyone think there is a chance FF show up in time for Infinity War?

 

[pixen]

Probably not... People don't seem to get how film rights work on here and how Fox wouldn't just give up on FF because of a ****** movie. They made the 94 one just so they could keep the rights.

 

[2kt09]

Probably not... People don't seem to get how film rights work on here and how Fox wouldn't just give up on FF because of a ****** movie. They made the 94 one just so they could keep the rights.

In 1983, German producer Bernd Eichinger met with Marvel Comics' Stan Lee at Lee's Los Angeles home to explore obtaining an option for a movie based on the Fantastic Four. The option was not available until three years later, when Eichinger's Neue Constantin film company obtained it for a price the producer called "not enormous" and which has been estimated to be $250,000. Despite some interest from Warner Bros. and Columbia Pictures, budget concerns precluded any production, and with the option scheduled to expire on December 31, 1992, Neue Constantin asked Marvel for an extension. With none forthcoming, Eichinger planned to retain his option by producing a low-budget Fantastic Four film, reasoning, he said in 2005, "They didn't say I had to make a big movie." In September 1992, he teamed with B-movie specialist Roger Corman, who agreed to produce the film on a $1 million budget.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Probably not... People don't seem to get how film rights work on here and how Fox wouldn't just give up on FF because of a ****** movie. They made the 94 one just so they could keep the rights.

No, Fox acquired the rights after the 94 film.

Rupert Murdoch had to explain to his shareholders how FF was the reason their stock tanked:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/a...tastic-four-flop-for-foxs-poor-fiscal-showing

For Fox to keep the rights, they would need to be in full production within 6 years. How would you like to be the one to try to sell management (who will have to answer to shareholders) that you should make a new FF movie after 3 failed efforts (and each one making less than the one before) on the idea of a new FF film? After the 94 film, 'quality clauses' were included in the new contract which would prevent Fox from doing another cheap film. Any effort they do will have to be a serious effort with serious risk.

NOBODY wants a Fox FF film. Management doesn't want it, shareholders don't want it, and most importantly, fans don't want it.

The idea that Fox will make an FF film in the next 6 years is, in a word, preposterous.

So they can deal now and get something (as they probably already have) or they can do nothing and get nothing.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here is a chart of Fox stock. See that sharp drop about a third of the way through? That was August 4th. What happened August 4th? The reviews for FF started coming out.

Now, I'm a Fox manager and you've got 100 words to sell me on the idea of making a new FF movie.

Go.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here's another hurdle you're going to have to get over to convince Fox management to do another FF film:

FF 2015 World Box-office: $331 million
FF ROTSS World Box-office: $289 million
FF 2015 World Box-office: $168 million


Fox Management doesn't understand all the problems and mistakes related to these films the way we do (if they did, they wouldn't have made them in the first place), and Fox Management isn't going to admit that they're completely clueless (they are).

All Fox Management understands is numbers. If Fox management looks at the numbers and ignores their own incompetence, the only conclusion they can come to for the horrible performance over the years is that it's a lousy property (it isn't).

Why would Fox risk one more dime on such a lousy property? Every film has made less than the one before. Why would they even make a cheap film to keep rights that aren't worth anything?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

There's a moment during saving Private Ryan in which the camera pulls around to the POV of the Germans on the cliff and we see ship after ship after ship approaching - so dense that you can barely see water between them.

We rarely think of it from that perspective. Since we're (at least most of us) Americans, we think of it from the US perspective and how impossible and daunting and difficult and unlikely success of the invasion against those fortified machine-guns mounted on the cliffs seemed.

But when you swing around and view it from the German side, you realize the real inevitability was on the side of the Allies. Nothing could stop that driving force.

And I think that's analogous to this situation. As fans of FF who have suffered through incompetent effort after incompetent effort, it seems like Marvel will never get the rights and Fox will continue to make terrible films for no reason.

But when you swing around and see it from Fox's side, it's inevitable that Marvel will get the rights back. They can drag and delay and try to negotiate for a better position, but they can't deny the inevitable.

 

[Zarex]

Now, I'm a Fox manager and you've got 100 words to sell me on the idea of making a new FF movie.
Go.

Rupert, baby, here's the dealeo. I'm going to need $200M budget, minimum, not counting marketing costs. I'm talking big stars, big production values, a huge promotional campaign. I'm talking armored space gods, mythical European nations - the works!

Now I've run the numbers, and the biggest BO we can hope to expect on this re-reboot is $400M WW. Marvel gets a cut and we don't control merchandising, so we're looking at at least a $100M loss on FF: Reborn.

We could potentially break even on the 2nd film and make money on the third. Let's do this thing!

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Rupert, baby, here's the dealeo. I'm going to need $200M budget, minimum, not counting marketing costs. I'm talking big stars, big production values, a huge promotional campaign. I'm talking armored space gods, mythical European nations - the works!

Now I've run the numbers, and the biggest BO we can hope to expect on this re-reboot is $400M WW. Marvel gets a cut and we don't control merchandising, so we're looking at at least a $100M loss on FF: Reborn.

We could potentially break even on the 2nd film and make money on the third. Let's do this thing!

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here's something for those who think Marvel will be afraid to make an FF film after Fox's miserable efforts.

Disney is going to do a Peter Pan film:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/apr/14/disney-to-make-live-action-peter-pan

I've lost track of how many failed Peter Pan movies there have been (including one just last year), but that doesn't scare Disney. They realize: "Just because nobody else understands how to do this doesn't mean we can't do it right."

I hope and expect they'll have the same attitude with FF.

 

[pixen]

6 years is enough time for Fox to figure something out. They know Marvel would probably love to have it back and probably don't want to slip it back without getting something in return.

Personally, I don't think there's any rush for Marvel to do a F4 movie when they have so many other properties that could benefit from being a movie. Who needs a 3rd (4th if you count the unreleased film) reboot of F4 when there's Inhumans, Runaways, Captain Marvel, and so many other properties Marvel could bring to the screen.

 

[metaphysician]

Pedantic correction time: "Who owns the FF rights?" Marvel, as they always have. What Fox owns is a *license* to use the characters in movies. This doesn't change ownership of the underlying IP.

 

[Zarex]

6 years is enough time for Fox to figure something out. They know Marvel would probably love to have it back and probably don't want to slip it back without getting something in return.

6 years wasn't enough time for FOX to figure something out the last time. I don't know why we would expect it to be different this time around. And do you think that Marvel signed off on multiple FOX produced X-Men television shows out of the kindness of their hearts?