Who should be the villain in a MCU Fantastic Four Film?

Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by The Overlord, Jan 16, 2018.

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Who should be the villain in a MCU Fantastic Four Film?

  1. Dr. Doom

  2. Galactus

  3. Mole Man

  4. Annihilus

  5. Mad Thinker

  6. Wizard and the Fright Four

  7. Red Ghost and his super apes

  8. Puppet Master

  9. Maximus the Mad

  10. Diablo

  11. Super Skrull

  12. Psycho-Man

  13. Other

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    Since the FF are in the MCU, who should be the villain in the first FF film?

    If you are going to pick a non Dr. Doom/Galactus option, please explain how that villain would be compelling in this film (I think a lot of the non Doom and Galactus villains in the FF have struggled to be compelling or even relevant past 1969) or whether you want the villain to a be typical MCU throwaway bad guy, so the focus can be on the FF.
     
    #1
  2. Kahran Ramsus

    Kahran Ramsus Well-Known Member

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    Marvel has done a good job so far with finding specific niches for their characters. So I hope they do the same for Fantastic Four rather than just be generic heroes. Some sort of retro 50s/60s style (although not set in those decades, just the style) sci-fi film is something they haven't done and they would be a good fit for. And I think Mole Man fits that type of film like a glove, so I voted for him. He's also a villain you can use without wasting the big guns (Doom, Galactus) that would be better served as a main Phase villain.
     
    #2
  3. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Mole Man is ideal for a half dozen reasons. Definitely, definitely don't want to do Dr. Doom again.
     
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  4. LaughterLives

    LaughterLives Well-Known Member

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  5. UltimatePyro9

    UltimatePyro9 Well-Known Member

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    I went with Mole Man. Not just because he's the first supervillain the FF faced, but there could be some cool visuals. Think about it. It would be neat to see the FF face off against Mole Man and the Moloids in Subterranea. It would be a visual spectacle on par with Ant-Man. If there were an option to vote for another character, I would choose Annihilus for the same reason. I went with Mole Man, though, because he would be easier to utilize than Annihilus since he would be less special-effects heavy (just hiring an actor).

    But whatever happens, don't use Doom again. He's the main course of supervillains. He's been used so many times on film, with each interpretation lacking in terms of character. Save him for the sequel, or if need be, give him his own movie and then Doom can fight the FF on their third movie. Just don't introduce Doom right now. Give him a break.
     
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  6. Detective Conan

    Detective Conan Well-Known Member

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    Doom should be saved down the line. The ruler of Latveria shall take his rightful place as the ultimate nemesis for The Four to battle in the next movie after their introduction.

    Should the next FF film be an origin film again(Marvel won't go that route again I'm sure) but in case they do why not opt for a villain who's perhaps a little bit less on the colorful side?

    I nominate Franz Stohl who's first and last appearance was in the mini-series Fantastic Four:First Family written by Joe Casey and illustrated by Chris Wheaton.

    [​IMG]

    Granted, he's not as visually striking as the rest of the Rogue's gallery but I think he has some potential and if Marvel wants to tackle the origin story again then he'd be the perfect foe to face against in the first film. Like the FF, he got his powers from the Cosmic Rays and he's as much of a telepath as he is a psychopath. Franz is what I would call a "Zealous Darwinist" since he believes that he's achieved the next phase of human evolution; viewing any normal non-powered human as 'inferior' or 'lessers'. The Four are initially horrified with their mutation but eventually decides to use their powers for the greater good while Stohl is ecstatic about them and wants to use them for the greater evil--he wants to spray the rest of humanity with cosmic rays so they can 'join' him in what he perceives as the next phase of human evolution. He's boastful about the potentialities that could arise in his vision of a reinvigorated species of super-humans free from the crippling ordinariness that hinders humanity. Having the FF face another individual who was affected by the cosmic rays would allow for some interesting thematic parallels.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  7. Silvermoth

    Silvermoth Avenger

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    [​IMG]

    1. He's got a great visual
    2. He won't block the dynamics of the ff and setting them up but he will boost them
    3. We haven't seen him before
    4. It sets up the negative zone
    5. And maybe even an annihilation event
    6. How on earth would you even do mole man these days anyway?
     
    #7
  8. Gamma Goliath

    Gamma Goliath Engine of Destruction

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    I can see mole man being a subvillain, distraction, and a pawn to a larger scheme.
     
    #8
  9. Set

    Set Well-Known Member

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    Yes to all of this. Doom's been used, and used badly, enough. (Much like Lex Luthor, in Superman movies.) I'd rather not see him until they can prove they can get their crap together with someone like the Mole Man or Annihilus.

    If Doom were to be forecast, setting him up for later movies, perhaps he could have something to do behind-the-scenes (way, way behind-the-scenes) with the incursion into the Mole Man's realm that sets him off (or Annihilus finding his way to Earth, whatever). The viewers can know that a mysterious European dictator funded the expedition to exploit the resources of the inner world (or negative zone) or something, without the team actually ever knowing it's von Doom.
     
    #9
  10. CaptainWagner

    CaptainWagner Cool. Cool cool cool.

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    Annihilius and Kang are all villains that should be part of event movie. Doom should be established, but not as a villain too soon. My vote is for Mole Man, preferably played by Rick Hoffman. (Suits)

    [​IMG]
     
    #10
  11. Silvermoth

    Silvermoth Avenger

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    David threllfall (shameless) would be an amazing Annihilius

    [​IMG]
    free url hosting
     
    #11
  12. LaughterLives

    LaughterLives Well-Known Member

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    If we don't see his face, I think Andy Serkis should play Annihilus
     
    #12
  13. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    An overzealous scientist who had some clay/material affected by the FF's accident and can reshape it into all sorts of foolishness now. Essentially he can actually BE what the other FF films keep trying to make Doom without being unfaithful to his character. It might take some work to pull off the cape in a modern story, but overall he's one of the most doable FF villains outside of Wizard.

    Plus he can be used as a secondary villain to Annihilus, or a human villain to Annihilus' force of nature.
     
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  14. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    But would Mole Man be compelling as a character or would just be a throwaway bad guy so the focus is on the heroes, like many MCU villains? I know Wizard would be a throwaway, because he is one of the most generic bad guys in the Marvel Universe, nothing compelling about him, he is just obnoxious.
     
    #14
  15. CaptainWagner

    CaptainWagner Cool. Cool cool cool.

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    I think you're confusing Mole Man with someone else...

    I think Mole Man would be best involving some sort of extraterrestrial/extradimensional creatures that he's tasked with studying and finds some manner of way to control them. Perhaps they come from the Negative Zone, which would set up the F4 venturing there in a sequel. The first movie's focus will inevitably be on establishing the new heroes. But just because the villain isn't the highlight doesn't mean he can't be compelling or memorable.
     
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  16. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but past MCU movies do feature villains who not compelling or memorable, most of them are in that camp. Maybe they need a throwaway villain in the first movie just establish the four, but it would continue the trend of lackluster MCU villains. How would you make Mole Man compelling as a character and not just a gimmick character?
     
    #16
  17. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    I don't think he'd be all that compelling on his own. He'd be like Skurge, or Shocker. His main purpose would be to be a dark shadow to Reed in comparison on sciencey stuff, and maybe like a creeper threat for Sue.

    Am I? It seems like we came to the same conclusion. :highfive:
     
    #17
  18. Detective Conan

    Detective Conan Well-Known Member

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    21st Century Fox should be an option but they’ve already been villians with their past butchering of the franchise.:hehe:
     
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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  19. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    But Skurge or Shocker were not the main bad guy of those films, they were minions to bigger bad guys like Vulture and Hela, they were the ones carrying the plot.

    Its a double edged sword, maybe this movie needs a throwaway bad guy so we can focus on the Four, build them up and just give them a bad guy to punch, but other the hand, the MCU has been criticized for uninspired bad guys in the past and what's to stop Mole Man from continuing that trend and being another underwhelming bad guy like Whiplash, Malekith, Killian, Ronan, etc.

    Mole Man is an okay choice, he is better choice then say Wizard or Red Ghost who just flat out suck in the comics, but I think people give him too much credit because he just happened to be the first villain the FF fought, he has a got a good gimmick, but it takes more then a gimmick to make for a good villain and with Mole Man, the gimmick is more interesting then the character himself, Mole Man's monsters seem more compelling then the man himself.
     
    #19
  20. UltimatePyro9

    UltimatePyro9 Well-Known Member

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    I think Timothy Spall would make an excellent Mole Man:
    [​IMG]
    (Dude looks the part, too).
     
    #20
  21. LaughterLives

    LaughterLives Well-Known Member

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    I think Danny De Vito is more spot on:
    [​IMG]

    But I like Spall too. hahaha!
     
    #21
  22. LaughterLives

    LaughterLives Well-Known Member

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    Or this guy

    [​IMG]
     
    #22
  23. CaptainWagner

    CaptainWagner Cool. Cool cool cool.

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    Vulture was never considered a "Big Bad" either, but he was turned into one of the MCU's best villains. I think the key to making a "throw-away" villain not FEEL "thrown-away" is to ensure he is MEMORABLE. He doesn't have to have a huge story, but if you do good work with what he gets, he'll be looked fondly upon. After all, Hannibal Lector himself only had, like 15 minutes of screentime and became one of the greatest villains ever. Get the right actor and the right script, and you can do a whole lot with just a little.

    For Mole Man specifically, I see him as kind of like Nedry in Jurassic Park. He works hard, but gets no respect, and is insanely jealous of Reed. Johnny is most likely awful to him because, well, Johnny can be a bit of a jerk. He realizes he has a chance at real power and authority and tries to seize it. Maybe he even starts to relate to the monsters as he starts to communicate and control them, seeing them as misunderstood outcasts abused by the people in power just like he is.

    I was just confused by the stuff about the "clay". That struck me as some other villain. But yeah, basically the same conclusion, though.
     
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  24. JJ Hall

    JJ Hall Member

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    The MCU "house style" re: villains is for them to create situations which allow the films to explore themes and the heroes' characters, as opposed to being three-dimensional. (For example, Ego behaves exactly as his name would imply, pulling the Guardians toward/inside him, recruiting Peter to his narcissistic ideology, and plotting to consume creation.)

    The right villain for the first MCU F4 film, then, would depend on what the filmmakers want the Four to deal with/what themes they wish to play with. Want to put Ben's plight front and centre to wrestle with isolation, body image, and self-hatred? Moleman's your man! If Reed and Sue's relationship is your interest and you want to delve into the conflicts among societal expectation, shameful desires, self-confidence and the lack thereof, Namor is the best bet.

    I voted for Puppetmaster -- his control freak m. o. is a way to draw out and interrogate Reed's rigidity and close-minded tendencies. The Four have had their lives upended, and the temptation to throw himself into a quest to "fix" everything -- paralleled by Masters' plot to control the Four -- will take over Reed, even bringing the family into conflict with each other until it's almost too late.
     
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  25. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    But Vulture had a real grudge against Tony Stark, who he felt gamed the system to put him out of business and had a personal connection to Peter Parker, take those things away and he would be some throwaway thief villain and I do think the Wayne Knight character from Jurassic Park was not compelling enough to be the main villain of a film, that is why he got killed off right away.

    I know people rag on the Ultimate Universe, but I thought Ultimate Mole Man had a better motive for being a villain then his 616 counterpart, he developed life forms while working for the government, the government objected and take away his research, that gives him a more directed target for his revenge, rather then just hating the world, because he couldn't get laid and people made fun of him. You can have that other stuff, but you need a real straw that breaks the camel back, not just random jealousy, he needs to get really screwed over to sell it, IMO. Have the government screw him over and then he wants revenge on them, its simple, but it makes for a villain with a more understandable motive, rather then just random jealousy.

    If Mole Man is just some random jealous guy, what makes him different from Killian, 2014 ELectro or Batman Forever Riddler? None of them are great villains.
     
    #25

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