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Discussion in 'Fantastic Four' started by Detective Conan, Jan 8, 2018.
I want Mole Man.
He probably is the Secret Wars villain, but again that doesn't make Doom Thanos. He is a completely different type of villain. I don't mean that as disrespect to Doom. He is my favorite villain. But that doesn't change facts. 99% of Doom's appearances in comics didn't require the combined might of Marvel to defeat him. He's largely been a solo threat, albeit a frequent one. Secret Wars was the story where his threat level was highest, but that is an exception. Not the rule. Therefore, Thanos and Doom are not equal and you cannot build them like they are the same Humpty Dumpty
One thing I want to add also, I see alot of people saying they want to see Doom ELEVATED above being a FF villain. That to me is pretty disrespectful to the FF. It reads to me like "The Fantastic Four suck, but Doom is cool so I would rather see Doom fight guys I think are cool." Try as many will, you cannot separate Doom from the FF. His hatred of Reed Richards is a driving force of his entire character, and if you downplay that, then he is to me less Doctor Doom and more a guy in a metal suit named Doctor Doom. To me it is literally like making Lex Luthor not hate Superman so now he is just a rich jerk who hates superheroes. Sure you COULD downplay it, but why would you actively try and take away one of the things that has made the character Marvel's best villain?
right, but as we have seen with many a MCU villain, they don’t usually have a long life span (they get unceremoniously offed in the same movie). We dont want to see that with Doom. Preferably he ends up being a mainstay and doesnt die at all. Much like a Saturday morning cartoon villain that is always a threat.
good point. Heck people havent had Spider Man fatigue with all the rebooting that took place from Garfield to Holland and a literal Spider Verse
Doom CAN be the FF villain.
but God Emperor Doom can be the Secret Wars villain. I guess this is like Doom 2.0 SUPER SAIYAN ITS OVER 9000 etc etc
i got you bruh
I agree with both things. I think Doom should be the villain of both. My point is just that people seem to want Doom in anything BUT a Fantastic Four movie, and it is logic I don't understand because Doom and the FF are linked. Even Secret Wars, his highest threat moment, ended up coming down to Doom vs Reed. Doom is like the villain Wolverine. He is so popular, he ends up everywhere cause his presence sells comics. But when the chips are down, he is a Fantastic Four villain. Heck, there is a literal issue of Fantastic Four that is just about the day in the life of Doctor Doom. That only works as a concept cause of his relationship with the FF and his recurring presence in that title
I dont want Doom to have a short lifespan either. But Loki was in Thor back in Phase 1 and is still going strong. Same can easily be done with Doom. All that needs done there is keeping him alive post Secret Wars. Then you can do a lot with him. Future Foundation. Infamous Iron Man. Or heck, just have him links his wounds and move on to his next big plan!
Doom is a F4 villain through and through, and just has the power levels and ambition to be a much higher level threat too. Loki is a Thor villain who became the villain of Avengers in a similar way, although Doom will be more of a threat than Loki ever was. Ultron on the other hand can be considered an Avengers villain.
I agree with this assessment.
I seem to recall an early issue of the FF where Ben beat him one on one also. He crushed his hands, and left Doom humiliated for awhile, because he had lost to the "dumb brute".
I think Feige wants to revitalize Doom. Making him an Avengers-level threat reshapes the general audience's perception of him. Instead of once again seeing "that metal-faced electricity-powered guy the Fantastic Four constantly beat" they'll see Thanos #2. Lurking behind the scenes for years until being center stage in 2025. Thanos wanted balance in the universe by killing half of it, only to retire to a quiet farmer's life. Doom wants complete control over the MULTIVERSE to then rule over it as a "God Emperor".
It honestly makes sense for Feige to go this route with him rather than retread what the last 3 movies put onscreen. A Doom that's mostly interested in defeating the FF yet keeps failing to do so.
God Emperor Doom will not just defeat the Fantastic Four. He will defeat everything and everyone in sight. Like Thanos at the end of Infinity War, he will end Kang Dynasty victorious while the surviving heroes rally to bring him down in Secret Wars.
I would hesitate to speak for Feige. I think Doom will be the final boss, but that doesn't mean he won't have a skirmish with the FF before that. Feige is the only one who knows how he will be handled, and we can a speculate, but we cannot speak for the man intelligently
I'm fine with spreading Doom around the MCU, he's that good of a villain. But if they give Doom powers, like make him a mutant or something (or worst of all, give him powers in the same accident that gives the FF powers), I will be furious.
great point. A lot of us already know Doom is a FF vilain. The general audience may not. I also liked how you contrasted Thanos as a farmer that wants to balance things vs Doom who truly seeks universe nay multiverse domination- he has much greater ambitions than Thanos ever did (presumably)
agreed. But if you remember the Sony email leaks. Feige was not pleased with how they treated Electro among other things. So i have a sense Feige will not let his own perception of Doom down. I think he will do a bang up job and give the hardcore Doom fans what we want. He already is building him up with
a post credit scene in BP2 WF
Then guess what? Electro from TASM2 was in the MCU. Feige and co made him a character that didn't suck. Revitalizing Doom doesn't mean you have to separate him from the FF. It just means you have to treat him like a character who doesn't suck
Thanos is a sociopath. Doom is a psychopath. Thanos murders trillions in an effort to save sixtillions. He feels justified. Doom sees most living organisms as inferior. He wouldn't ever fight to save them or justify their existence. Wiping out the entire universe would be fine with Doom if it meant that what came after would follow his rule and design. Thanos doesn't want to be God. He wants to use God's power to "save" societies that he felt didn't stand a fair chance. Doom wants to be God.
Doom is more evil than Thanos.
wow. Makes Doom that much more reason to be feared.
I think it would be fun to have Doom in the film but not an antagonist at all. The FF could “run into him” at some point during the film, and they could touch on the historical relationship and conflict.
… but save the battle for another day.
Often in the comics we would see them interacting with some overt civility while the FF knew he was up to something.
And he usually was. But in this case, I think it could be fun to have the FF and audience suspicious but with Doom legitimately innocent.. for the moment.
Your Doom sounds like a force of nature like Godzilla in human size
This is a tricky one for me. Pre-Comic Con I would've said no aside from a tease, but knowing that Secret Wars is coming sooner than expected I think the character needs to be firmly established somewhere before hand and FF is the natural place to do that.
But then there is the question of how to distinguish this from the previous efforts where it would make sense to to use a villain that hasn't been done yet.
I suppose I'd say to split the difference and have Doom be a secondary villain for the solo and Secret Wars be his showdown with Reed.