Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)?

[I'm Venom]

Not necessarily. I think if it is introduced in Infinity Wars Part II, and Peter has it for 30 minutes of his next film (let's say Spidey 3) that wouldn't be the end of the world. I mean, Spider-Man 3 shows the inherent problem of what happens if you make Peter have it for 2/3 of the film. And introducing the black suit but saving Venom for another movie is the kind of unsatisfying cliffhanger that is too common now in blockbuster movies (Harry Potter, Hunger Games, etc.). Just make Brock and the symbiote become one by the 45-minute mark. It would give Venom time to actually leave an impression.

To keep Venom as true to character as possible the symbiote has to bond to Peter first then cause enough trouble for Peter to reject it, and you have to find a reason for Brock to be nearby when that happens. It would be difficult to pull off in 45 minutes.

 

[Webhead2006]

Totally when ever we do get to the symbiote. We need to have peter wear it for the whole film. Will also in said film see brock fall from grace. Then the very end of the film with peter removing it. And as post scene see brock find it and bond. And leave venom fully for another film.

 

[metaphysician]

Here's the thing about why Raimi handled Venom like he did: Venom is, at heart, a petty, envious loser who, when given the chance to have power, goes around blaming all his problems on another, seeking vengeance, and randomly killing and eating people. He is, by all rights, *not an anti-hero in the slightest*.

Raimi understood that. He also understood that the fans demanding Venom were demanding the anti-hero, because of shallow 90s kewl. I can entirely understand why he was pissed about it being forced upon him. This is why he gave the fans what they wanted ( Venom ), and pissed them off anyway ( because he didn't feed their 90s kewl indulgence ).

 

[Webhead2006]

i doubt that is how raimi was on venom. Remember raimi liked the classic villains. IT was avi that forced raimi and sony to do venom.

 

[DigificWriter]

I don't have any problems with the way Topher Grace's Venom was written character-wise, and personally think doing something similar would work very well within the context of the MCU. My issue with Venom's inclusion is that Raimi decided to be spitefully lazy and made no attempt whatsoever to actually integrate the character and his story into the film's plot, which not only does the character a disservice, but also drags the film down because it is patently obvious that Venom is 'tacked on' purely out of spite.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Here's the thing about why Raimi handled Venom like he did: Venom is, at heart, a petty, envious loser who, when given the chance to have power, goes around blaming all his problems on another, seeking vengeance, and randomly killing and eating people. He is, by all rights, *not an anti-hero in the slightest*.

Raimi understood that. He also understood that the fans demanding Venom were demanding the anti-hero, because of shallow 90s kewl. I can entirely understand why he was pissed about it being forced upon him. This is why he gave the fans what they wanted ( Venom ), and pissed them off anyway ( because he didn't feed their 90s kewl indulgence ).

Raimi never cared to for Venom, because the character was so convoluted, because of the many hollow adaptions(the shallow 90's kewl, as you said it), that really didn't possess any real concrete foundation, to the character, that he felt, he could really fashion or build any credence around. He stated something similar, on many occasions, when speaking about his disagreement with Avi Arad about been forced to include the character in Spider-Man 3.

The thing is Brock originally, was an envious person, who felt slighted, powerless to change his misfortunes, and blame many people & society in general, for personal problem he faced in the world. That much has always been true. However, the change came when Brock posses the Symbiote, and became Venom...."Originally", he was a ruthless killer that devoured/consumed those he seek vengeance against....against "ALL" he felt slighted him, contributed to his misfortunes, and those that stood against him in some 'form or fashion' or stood in his way.

This is the Venom most fans originally adored, and wanted to see how Peter/Spiderman, 'could & would' deal with such a deadly brute, whom has no remorse or concern for human life. Raimi said he could not do that(original) version of the character in the family oriented, kid friendly, style film he created, nor did he think that portrayal was suitable for any young person, going to see a film based on a comic.

So, I completely agree with you...that is not a mark of an anti-hero....far from it. It was when Marvel Comics decided to water down the tone of the character, and later re-established the character as this Anti-Hero, that can flirt with the fine line, of being a hero or villain, is when the character as a whole, became hollow and shallow shell of it's self, with no real substance...because his main focus became just Peter/Spiderman for a time, and the Symbiote, was able to leap from person 2 person...taking on many different personalities & justifying it's ideology, depending on the personality in possession at the time.

Neverless, by that time, fans had already thought the character was "kewl"...because of it's original portrayal. Not because of this anti hero bull; and, simply just continue to gravitate toward the character ever since, because of what had been established originally.

 

[ernesth100]

I wonder when they do Doc Ock, is it possible to use the Webb design for the rms since it was never actually seen in action or longer than a breif cameo.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

Well if they really want to do a sinister six arc, they should introduce 2 villains in the first 2 movies and in the 3rd film would be 2 new villians plus the other 4. However in order for that to work there has to be another character at work, maybe Kingpin, Osborne, or Tombstone to unite the 6 villians.

I think a combo of Mysterio, Kraven, Scorpion, Vulture, Shocker & Hobgoblin would be nice. (Or chameleon, Doc Oc, or Rhino)

I also think Spider-Man should get help from Black Cat.

 

[JOE]

Mysterio, Kraven, Kingpin, Vulture, Scorpion, Shocker, Morbius, Tombstone and the Chameleon all haven't been touched. There's also the Hobgoblin and Carnage, which are sort of spin-off villains if you don't want to count those. I'd like to have Doc Ock, Eddie and Norman, but mostly in the background to start. Let's shine the light on the rest of Spider-Man's villains.

 

[Frodo]

While I can see why Raimi may not have been to crazy about Venom, as far as villains go, his judgment regarding Sandman as a compelling strong antagonist was ultimately wrong. Of the villains featured, Venom was the strongest and I think he was the strongest because of his lack of humanity. Spiderman 3 shouldn't have been about trying to have another Doc Ock as a villain , which Sandman was an attempt at no matter how you slice it.

The next Spiderman bad needed to be something different and not another misunderstood guy who the audience could sympathize with. You needed a different type of villain like Venom who reflected what Peter could have become or the darker side of Peter's personality. I actually don't mind Raimi change of Brock's character. While I still think Grace was a miscast, his concept for Brock wasn't that bad imo. Raimi's mistake was believing Sandman was the more interesting character, and thinking that trying to redo another Doc Ock this time with Sandman was the way to go. It wasn't .

Retreading villain tropes is what ultimately hurt the last 3 Sony films. They kept returning to the Molina Ock well over and over again except with different villains. Now , given the way the arcs from the first film, i.e. the Harry/Goblin saga was headed, there really wasn't anyway you could do the Venom saga justice to begin with in one film. For the purposes of the story it probably would have been best to have Harry's struggle as the sole villain , possibly introducing the symbiote and Peter's turn to the darkside.


However, from a marketing pov , I could see why they wouldn't want to return with another Goblin being the sole villain in the third film, because that would seem like a retread.

I get what Raimi wanted to accomplise , I just think his goals weren't very good. The whole forgiveness theme needed to apply to Harry , not to Peter, and not as the result of retconning Uncle Ben's death. Venom was a more interesting character than Sandman , and it'd be hard to argue otherwise. Venom was the more cinematic and imposing threat to Peter and all of his loved ones. No, he didn't have the quality Raimi was looking for, but what Raimi was looking for he had already done with Doc Ock, and he needed to do something different with the next Spiderman villain.

 

[Webhead2006]

Ya like I keep on saying no reason norman, curt, eddie, otto can't be background players. Who are slowly being built up in the background over all the films. But for st least the firdt two films of this 3 hs films we are at the low end of getting. Let's do 2 villains per films. So we can get 4 main villains out. Before we bring back in villain form any from past films. Then maybe also toss in a few d lister in montage scenes as I brought up as a hey can you spot this ... character.

 

[ernesth100]

I think Eddie should be a student in midtown high or ESU.

 

[Webhead2006]

No usm student crap. He should be at the bugle and reporter mid 20s yrs old. He doesn't need to be as young as pete

 

[I'm Venom]

I like Brock being middle-aged, because it fills in with his origin so much better, and he had proven himself to be a darn good journalist before Spidey "got him to get divorced." Also remember that most of Spidey's enemies are "old" compared to Spidey himself.

 

[Webhead2006]

Totally if not thst old be late 20s thru mid 30s. Personally the older from peter the betyer. We don't need to drag thst many folks. You want a rival at peter age thst is harry or flash. You don't need brock to be young.

 

[Kylo Ren]

J Jonah should drop hints throughout the movie towards Eddie: "Parker! If you keep getting photos like this, I'll have to get rid of Brock", which sparks the jealousy Brock has towards Peter. He must be pretty pissed if some kid 10-15 years younger than him is threatening to take his spot.

In the sequel, his amount of appearances increase, which then leads to a full-blown Venom movie in the third Spider-Man solo after Brock is fired (due to Spidey, who's true identity he later figures out from the symbiote).

 

[I'm Venom]

Spidey cameoing in Daredevil season 2
Daredevil cameoing in solo Spidey film

I need this.

 

[ernesth100]

That has nothing to do with the villain...unless you want Kingpin.

 

[Kylo Ren]

My ideal scenario is:

Spider-Man: The New Avenger: Spidey meets his first true supervillain after almost a year of crime fighting in Mysterio. Kingpin is working in the background pulling the strings and Norman Osborn makes a cameo. Kraven is mentioned. Ideally, some of the movie such as the final battle would be influenced by The Amazing Spider-Man #66 - #67. Mysterio would be a fun, unique, fresh villain to see on the big screen, and would fit alongside the John Hughes esque high school drama/comedy.

Spider-Man: The Last Hunt: This would obviously be an adaption of the famous Kraven's Last Hunt storyline, with some tweaks to the overall plot, such as the Vermin stuff. Maybe he could be replaced by The Lizard, or omitted completely. Norman Osborn would begin to show more signs of insanity throughout this and would make a hint towards goblins. Spidey would have the black alien symbiote suit throughout the movie, after picking it up in outer space during the Infinity War. This movie would be darker than the first, with maybe a little less focus on the high school life and more on Spider-Man. Kraven is perfect sequel material, and The Last Hunt would be very interesting to see.

Spider-Man: Venom Spider-Man strips himself of the symbiote at the end of The Last Hunt, which then finds a new host in the opening scene, before the title and logo appears. His former coworker at the Daily Bugle, Eddie Brock, who was just fired because of Spider-Man, bonds with the symbiote and becomes the new host, merging his hatred of Spider-Man and jealousy of Peter Parker with the symbiote's hatred of both to become 'Venom'. Green Goblin as a secondary villain, makes his long-awaited debut in a lengthy fight with Spidey during the first act, which Spider-Man wins and Osborn is revealed as the Goblin. Norman loses his memory and is not seen until his return in a later Avengers: Dark Reign film(s).

Venom gets a lot of attention in this movie and finally gets his deserved treatment after the disastrous writing in Spider-Man 3. Venom proves to be Spidey's greatest foe yet, and never gets fully taken out of the picture, but is still defeated in the end. This leaves room for a possible Carnage film in the future in which Spidey and Venom are forced to team up to destroy the deadly offspring symbiote, but also can be considered a proper conclusion.

 

[The Overlord]

My ideal scenario is:

Spider-Man: The New Avenger: Spidey meets his first true supervillain after almost a year of crime fighting in Mysterio. Kingpin is working in the background pulling the strings and Norman Osborn makes a cameo. Kraven is mentioned. Ideally, some of the movie such as the final battle would be influenced by The Amazing Spider-Man #66 - #67. Mysterio would be a fun, unique, fresh villain to see on the big screen, and would fit alongside the John Hughes esque high school drama/comedy.

I think I would rather have Mysterio that focuses on psychological warfare, then one that just provides set pieces (he can do that too, but that is not all he should provide in a film). Amazing Spider-Man #66 - #67 is a fun story, but in a film, it would just be a giant set piece, rather then anything else. Its not a big story to cover a movie (the 60s Spider-Man cartoon covered that story in 15 minutes) but it does make for a good set piece at some point in the movie.

I would also want Mysterio to have any his own personality and his own agenda, rather then be a one note minion, he can use other people's resources, but he should be willing to go behind their back and do things to aggrandize his own ego, rather then just being a loyal minion.

What would make Mysterio more scary, trying to destroy Spidey through his sense of guilt and fear of failure or just trying to convince Spidey he is 6 inches tall through illusions? I would rather have a Mysterio that is creepy and sinister rather then just being an over the top campy goofball (Mysterio can be campy, but his campy attitude should just be a mask for a truly ruthless, creepy, cunning and sadistic foe).

 

[Keehar]

To keep Venom as true to character as possible the symbiote has to bond to Peter first then cause enough trouble for Peter to reject it, and you have to find a reason for Brock to be nearby when that happens. It would be difficult to pull off in 45 minutes. It'd be perfect for the third movie though. However the Brock/Parker rivalry would be better if it was started in the first film. Therefore, freeing up more screen time.

No Venom. He sucks. Overrated trash character.

 

[harryoscop]

My ideal scenario is:

Spider-Man: The New Avenger: Spidey meets his first true supervillain after almost a year of crime fighting in Mysterio. Kingpin is working in the background pulling the strings and Norman Osborn makes a cameo. Kraven is mentioned. Ideally, some of the movie such as the final battle would be influenced by The Amazing Spider-Man #66 - #67. Mysterio would be a fun, unique, fresh villain to see on the big screen, and would fit alongside the John Hughes esque high school drama/comedy.

Spider-Man: The Last Hunt: This would obviously be an adaption of the famous Kraven's Last Hunt storyline, with some tweaks to the overall plot, such as the Vermin stuff. Maybe he could be replaced by The Lizard, or omitted completely. Norman Osborn would begin to show more signs of insanity throughout this and would make a hint towards goblins. Spidey would have the black alien symbiote suit throughout the movie, after picking it up in outer space during the Infinity War. This movie would be darker than the first, with maybe a little less focus on the high school life and more on Spider-Man. Kraven is perfect sequel material, and The Last Hunt would be very interesting to see.

Spider-Man: Venom Spider-Man strips himself of the symbiote at the end of The Last Hunt, which then finds a new host in the opening scene, before the title and logo appears. His former coworker at the Daily Bugle, Eddie Brock, who was just fired because of Spider-Man, bonds with the symbiote and becomes the new host, merging his hatred of Spider-Man and jealousy of Peter Parker with the symbiote's hatred of both to become 'Venom'. Green Goblin as a secondary villain, makes his long-awaited debut in a lengthy fight with Spidey during the first act, which Spider-Man wins and Osborn is revealed as the Goblin. Norman loses his memory and is not seen until his return in a later Avengers: Dark Reign film(s).

Venom gets a lot of attention in this movie and finally gets his deserved treatment after the disastrous writing in Spider-Man 3. Venom proves to be Spidey's greatest foe yet, and never gets fully taken out of the picture, but is still defeated in the end. This leaves room for a possible Carnage film in the future in which Spidey and Venom are forced to team up to destroy the deadly offspring symbiote, but also can be considered a proper conclusion.

 

[DigificWriter]

Peter being corrupted by the black suit while he's still a teenager and in High School really doesn't jive, for me at least, with the fact that they want to explore the character through a John Hughes-esque lens.

 

[ernesth100]

No Venom. He sucks. Overrated trash character.

They're gonna do him eventually regardless of what we say and or think.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Doctor Octopus

Hasn't been used in awhile, and the GA associates him with the best Spider-Man movie of all time. Plus, he's a heavyweight. I don't want to see another Spidey film headlined by a C-lister villain like The Lizard just because he's someone we haven't seen before.

First film, Ock
Second film, Ock + Sinister Six
Third film, Green Goblin or Venom