The Dark Knight Who won?

[bbf2]

You know, there's been a lot of arguing about "Did Batman break his one rule, and whatnot." And the truth is, in regards to the ending and the three aspects in which Batman and the Joker were battling each other, (the ferries, Batman's rule, and "the battle for Gotham's soul" with Dent) you could say Batman completely and totally won in all aspects, that the Joker completely won, or some combination of the above.

Why Batman won:
1. The people on the ferries didn't blow each other up
2. He didn't break his no-killing rule on the Joker. Batman may have killed Two-Face, but it was accidental and only occurred because he was saving a small child so it doesn't count.
3. While Dent did turn bad, Batman won the "Battle for Gotham's Soul" because he made it so no one at Gotham will know about it.

But on the flip side, you could say the Joker won in all three of those aspects:

1. The civilians on the ferry held a vote, and voted to kill the prisoner ferry. I'm sure someone on the boat will mention this and the Joker will hear about it in the press.
2. Batman broke his no killing rule by killing Two-Face, and it isn't justifiable by saving the kid's life.
3. Dent did indeed turn bad, even if its being covered up.

So who really won, in the end?

 

[Dolly Cro]

I think it's a stalemate.

 

[Jokerluv]

Looking at just the facts, without a doubt, The Joker. He succeeded in his plan to make Dent fall. Batman decided to make sure that the Joker wouldn't win, so Gotham wouldn't lose hope, and Harvey's rep was still intact, so again, if you are looking at just facts, the Joker won by a milestone.

 

[ronny]

Batman won as he never broke the whole "no killing" rule.
Besides, for The Joker to "win" wouldn't he have to have a well defined plan? It seemed like he kept changing his mind. Kill Batman, he must take off his mask, I have no plan, I want to make Harvey insane, I want to show that people can be lowered to my level.
You can't win if you haven't got a goal.

 

[Naite22]

Batman didn't break his rule... But he DID bend it a little! I mean, he did ram into Two-Face so he fell of the building... but it was only to get Gordon's son out of the way.

 

[hatebox]

Initially I thought Joker, but ultimately batman simply because he didn't let the Joker beat him which was the Joker's ultimate aim.

 

[Paradyme]

Batman won some. Joker won some. It's to show that Joker is Batman's ultimate nemesis.

 

[Ziggyman]

If you have read The Killing Joke...You will understand how the Joker won...

...The Joker's plan from the beginning was to bring Dent Gotham's "White Knight" to their level...He did so...Even if the public never knows that Harvey went "bad", it doesn't change the soul fact that he did...

The Joker won...Batman knew this and didn't want to allow it to happen...Puts all blame on himself for Harvey's killings... It doesn't change...How Two-Face still turned on everything Harvey once stood for...

...The plan fell through, therefore The Joker won.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

i've been thinking about this for ages and i've come to the conclusion joker won. you could say he didnt because no one found out about dent downfall but think about it, batman took the blame so therefore gotham thinks batman has killed so therefore joker has corrupted the image of good.

 

[Ziggyman]

i've been thinking about this for ages and i've come to the conclusion joker won. you could say he didnt because no one found out about dent downfall but think about it, batman took the blame so therefore gotham thinks batman has killed so therefore joker has corrupted the image of good.

There ya go!t:

 

[DieSmiling]

I'd say in reality Joker "won" but since nobody finds out about Dent's fall, Batman ended up winning in a way.

 

[Motown Marvel]

dent went corrupt, batman killed breaking his rule, joker won. joker was only wrong about the citizens.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I'd say in reality Joker "won" but since nobody finds out about Dent's fall, Batman ended up winning in a way.

yea but batman ended up taking the blame, which means that in the eyes of everyone in gotham apart from gordon batman has been corrupted by the joker. so joker won

 

[jackjack924]

Joker won on a more personal scale. Gotham city may not know of Dent's fall from grace but Batman and Gordon do and in a way knowing that Batman lost at the end of the day (with Dent dead and Batman on the run) is probably more of a victory for the Joker than the ferries blowing eachother up.

 

[DonnyLebeau]

Jim Gordon is the REAL winner.

Got promoted to Commissioner, didn't lose a family member, got a couple days off, a free hotel room and Got the last line in the film!!!

 

[Ziggyman]

Jim Gordon is the REAL winner.

Got promoted to Commissioner, didn't lose a family member, got a couple days off, a free hotel room and Got the last line in the film!!!

And he has never killed anyone (on screen)...And seems to be just as incorruptible as Batman!

 

[jackjack924]

He did lose Dent, though.

"Dent's in there with them! We have to save Dent! I HAVE TO SAVE DENT!!!"

 

[Ace of Knaves]

He did lose Dent, though.

"Dent's in there with them! We have to save Dent! I HAVE TO SAVE DENT!!!"

yea that was gut wrenching, i really did feel bad for gordon there, so much guilt even though he is the most decent person in the whole film.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Jim Gordon is the REAL winner.

Got promoted to Commissioner, didn't lose a family member, got a couple days off, a free hotel room and Got the last line in the film!!!

LOL

He did lose Dent, though.

"Dent's in there with them! We have to save Dent! I HAVE TO SAVE DENT!!!"

Love that part.

 

[TheDarkJoker]

Joker WON! No doubt!

 

[Anita18]

He did lose Dent, though.

"Dent's in there with them! We have to save Dent! I HAVE TO SAVE DENT!!!"

Yeah. Poor Gordon, knowing he had a role in Dent's fall. You can tell he starts to realize how serious it is when Joker talks with him in the interrogation room. ("Who did YOU leave him with? Hmmm? YOUR men? Assuming that they are still your men, and not...Maroni's. Does it depress you, how alone you really are?")

Gordon did come away the most unscathed out of the three, though. I think that had a point - Dent was in the public spotlight the most, which is why Joker targeted him in particular. Batman was next, since his very existence is controversial. Gordon is just the guy in the background trying to do what's right.

Joker lost some battles (namely the ferry experiment), but I think he did win in the end, even if Batman and Gordon are trying to cover it up.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

maybe if jokers back in the next one he'll go after gordon? ala the killing joke

 

[Ziggyman]

maybe if jokers back in the next one he'll go after gordon? ala the killing joke

No...Then they would be kind of repeating themselves...Also...No Joker in a third flick...

...That's just what I would prefer...t:

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Without the cover up Joker wins for ruining the reputation of Harvey Dent and the possibility of Batman breaking his one rule by killing him.

With the cover up, Joker still wins because now Batman is seen by the public as someone who broke his one rule.

 

[Darknightnomis]

I think the thought that Batman had at the end of " A DEATH IN THE FAMILY" says it all: " ...it will alway be the same when it comes to the Joker and myself...UNRESOLVED!"