Why all the hate for "Die Another Day"?

[Kevin Roegele]

Not any worse than Connery in DAF or an aged Moore in A View to a Kill.


Bond girls have had a lot of range. These characters simply fall within those ranges.

Yes. Die Another Day wasn't all that great. But it's not like every Bond film has been sparkling. Sci Fi? Bad effects? Sounds like Moonraker. Unnecessary comedic moments? I can name numerous moments in a bunch of Bond movies. But whatever. To each his own.

Moonraker has got great special effects.

Anyway, no, not all Bond movies 'have been sparkling'. But that's such a vague comment. That doesn't mean criticisms against Die Another Day are invalid. There are levels of good and bad. GranDAD is at the very bottom rung of bad.

 

[Everyman]

And at least Moonraker had a badguy who looked like a badguy and had a bit of presence. And I hate Moonraker, but it's Citizen Kane compared to DAD!

 

[skruloos]

Moonraker has got great special effects.

Uh...no. Not even back then.

Anyway, no, not all Bond movies 'have been sparkling'. But that's such a vague comment. That doesn't mean criticisms against Die Another Day are invalid. There are levels of good and bad. GranDAD is at the very bottom rung of bad.

Nah. I don't buy it. Moonraker and The Man with the Golden Gun would be bottom rung for me.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

And at least Moonraker had a badguy who looked like a badguy and had a bit of presence. And I hate Moonraker, but it's Citizen Kane compared to DAD!

Drax is a great bad guy in the Bond tradition; an evil father figure, believing he is doing what is best for the world. He's suave, polite, ultra-confident has has style.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Uh...no. Not even back then.

Oh, yes it did. It was nominated for Best Visual Effects at the 1980 Oscars. The space stuff was designed in partner with NASA themselves.

The model work was done by the legendary Derek Meddings, who also worked on Superman, Batman, GoldenEye, The Spy Who Loved Me, etc.

 

[skruloos]

Drax is a great bad guy in the Bond tradition; an evil father figure, believing he is doing what is best for the world. He's suave, polite, ultra-confident has has style.

And if you never broke tradition you'd have the same cardboard villain in every movie.

 

[skruloos]

Oh, yes it did. It was nominated for Best Visual Effects at the 1980 Oscars.

And that's great that it did. However, I am still of the opinion that it sucked then and it still sucks now. A lot of things have been nominated for different awards by the Academy that I don't agree with.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

And if you never broke tradition you'd have the same cardboard villain in every movie.

Well......what has that got to do with the quality of Drax himself as a villain?

 

[skruloos]

Well......what has that got to do with the quality of Drax himself as a villain?

Only that Drax was being used as a detraction on Die Another Day.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Only that Drax was being used as a detraction on Die Another Day.

Oh, I see.

 

[skruloos]

Oh, I see.

Yes. I'm not saying that I liked Graves in DAD but I do like that they are trying to stray from "tradition" in different ways in every Bond movie. Otherwise, each succeeding Bond movie will become a caricature of another. Sure, some attempts will be bad but that's just bound to be the case. They experiment with different things and see what works. Or else they just regurgitate the same things.

 

[Everyman]

Yes. I'm not saying that I liked Graves in DAD but I do like that they are trying to stray from "tradition" in different ways in every Bond movie. Otherwise, each succeeding Bond movie will become a caricature of another. Sure, some attempts will be bad but that's just bound to be the case. They experiment with different things and see what works. Or else they just regurgitate the same things.

Graves didn't only detract from tradition, he was a desecration of tradition. He was just a spoiled kid with stupid toys, he was not threathening, he was annoying, he had no real motivations or psychology, just some bad one liners tod efine him and a very thin "origin" (a 5 minutes meeting with Bond, where he decides to model his alter ego after 007). It is funny that you talk about caricatures, because Graves was a caricature of Bond villain. It seems that they amde the very mistake they were trying to avoid.

 

[Everyman]

Drax is a great bad guy in the Bond tradition; an evil father figure, believing he is doing what is best for the world. He's suave, polite, ultra-confident has has style.

And Gustav Graves is a loud kid who has anger problems. I can't believed they were modeled after the same character (Hugo Drax from the novel).

 

[skruloos]

Graves didn't only detract from tradition, he was a desecration of tradition. He was just a spoiled kid with stupid toys, he was not threathening, he was annoying, he had no real motivations or psychology, just some bad one liners tod efine him and a very thin "origin" (a 5 minutes meeting with Bond, where he decides to model his alter ego after 007). It is funny that you talk about caricatures, because Graves was a caricature of Bond villain. It seems that they amde the very mistake they were trying to avoid.

You know what that sounds like to me? The world's smallest violin. I still get the last laugh though. No matter how much you try to denounce the movie as a non-Bond film, it still is and forever will be.

 

[Everyman]

You know what that sounds like to me? The world's smallest violin. I still get the last laugh though. No matter how much you try to denounce the movie as a non-Bond film, it still is and forever will be.

Well, technically, it is a Bond movie, obviously what I said wasn't meant to be understood literally. It has none of the spirit of a Bond movie, though, and when it uses Bondian elements, it uses them as caricatures. From the gunbarrel sequence they make a bloody mistake for God's sake! No character, old or new, behaves intelligently or with a bit of competence. As a movie, it's a stupid one. As a Bond movie, it's an atypical one and a really bad one.

 

[skruloos]

Well, technically, it is a Bond movie, obviously what I said wasn't meant to be understood literally. It has none of the spirit of a Bond movie, though, and when it uses Bondian elements, it uses them as caricatures. From the gunbarrel sequence they make a bloody mistake for God's sake! No character, old or new, behaves intelligently or with a bit of competence. As a movie, it's a stupid one. As a Bond movie, it's an atypical one and a really bad one.

Eh. I still rank it at Moonraker or Diamonds are Forever.

 

[Everyman]

Eh. I still rank it at Moonraker or Diamonds are Forever.

...WHich, let's put it this way, isn't very high to begin with.

 

[skruloos]

...WHich, let's put it this way, isn't very high to begin with.

I never said it was. But I still appreciate all three.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Moonraker is a cool movie. If you take out some of Jaws' slapstick bits, you have a fantastic pre-credit sequence, a classic cable car sequence, a creepy carnival sequence with Jaws dressed as a clown (nightmare inducing), a very nasty killer dogs scene, some great fight scenes, a NASA-designed space station, and a genuinely exciting climax when 007 has to destroy the pods before they reach earth.

 

[Greenshirt]

I like Die Another Day. I just think that the producers were going towards the sci-fi route a little too soon.

 

[Everyman]

...A little too soon and way too much. In a way, Die Another Day is closer to Star trek Nemesis than to a Bond movie. And Nemesis was a bad Star Trek movie!

 

[skruloos]

...A little too soon and way too much. In a way, Die Another Day is closer to Star trek Nemesis than to a Bond movie. And Nemesis was a bad Star Trek movie!

Nemesis a bad Trek movie? I'd have to disagree. While it's not one of the best TNG films it still stands as one of the better Trek movies overall. It's no Wrath of Khan or First Contact but it sure as hell beats Final Frontier, Insurrection, and Generations. I'd put it above The Motion Picture and Search for Spock too.

 

[D'Artagnan]

Moonraker is a cool movie. If you take out some of Jaws' slapstick bits, you have a fantastic pre-credit sequence, a classic cable car sequence, a creepy carnival sequence with Jaws dressed as a clown (nightmare inducing), a very nasty killer dogs scene, some great fight scenes, a NASA-designed space station, and a genuinely exciting climax when 007 has to destroy the pods before they reach earth.

Yes. I'd agree with this. Many make Moonraker to be some kid of cheap Star Wars/sci-fi cash-in, whereas actually the space station and laser guns only come in at the finale. I also found Lois Chiles to be the strongest and most resourceful Bond girl so far. If perhaps not the most alluring.

 

[Everyman]

Nemesis a bad Trek movie? I'd have to disagree. While it's not one of the best TNG films it still stands as one of the better Trek movies overall. It's no Wrath of Khan or First Contact but it sure as hell beats Final Frontier, Insurrection, and Generations. I'd put it above The Motion Picture and Search for Spock too.

Nemesis isn,t the worst STar Trek, but it's a pretty weak one, with some big inconsistencies wit the series, and ennmy race that we never heard of, a pretty dumb villain, and some very badly explained concepts. Stewart is excellent, as usual, but he is working with a very poor text. I am saying that DAD is close to Nemesis because in both the main character has to fight a doppleganger who is younger than him. And both rely heavily on sci-fi elements and gimmicks. While it is normal in STar trek, in a James Bond it is out of place.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Nemesis isn,t the worst STar Trek, but it's a pretty weak one, with some big inconsistencies wit the series, and ennmy race that we never heard of, a pretty dumb villain, and some very badly explained concepts. Stewart is excellent, as usual, but he is working with a very poor text. I am saying that DAD is close to Nemesis because in both the main character has to fight a doppleganger who is younger than him. And both rely heavily on sci-fi elements and gimmicks. While it is normal in STar trek, in a James Bond it is out of place.

The main weakness of Nemesis is that it is slooooooow. Scenes that should take two minutes take ten.