It's been fan time and movie time. 35 years from the Luke in RotJ. Obviously he would be a more powerful Jedi at this point. He would have trained Leia too so I don't get the complaints about her using the Force from some fans.
Luke was as old as Obi Wan in the original film, and displayed more impressive feats than he did. Where's the beef?
What they established about Luke in TFA wasn't that he was a coward. (obviously...since the fans are upset NOW and were not upset 2 years ago) They needed to explain why he had gone into hiding at the worst possible moment in a way that was consistent with his character.
Johnson chose to go with, "Luke finds out Kylo is going to destroy everything they built and decides to run away and hide while leaving Han and Leia to deal with it alone".
That was his choice so it should hardly be surprising it isn't going over so well with fans.
Yeah this was pretty much the thoughts behind my original post. The seeds were planted for what Johnson went with, and in hindsight, I don't know what else I should have expected considering the nature of Luke's disappearance.
Luke had plenty of flaws, which makes even dumber to break his core traits to create new flaws.
Sure. We could have had him struggling with all sorts. Generally I find it more fun to see a character up against new challenges. He's a fallen hero, his past actions inform his present failings. I see tragedy, you see continuity. Fine either way.
Luke went away and there could have been many reasons for that, as evidenced by that Abrams did not envision it being for the reasons Rian then wrote. Luke had clearly left a way to find him, as that's the only way it makes sense that the map was in R2 and then there was a perfect puzzle piece for the missing part around.
There could have been a number of reasons, sure. Considering his years of absence, his complete lack of activity, lack of contact and his remote location, the most likely suggestion is exile.
If Luke really wanted to be found, he probably would have left a more effective map behind. He could have reached out to Leia at any time. He didn't.
He didn't need to be there at all, as if they just ran to search for an exit right away they could have found that before the New Order blasted a hole in the door and started searching for them. Luke not even telling them what he's doing is just yet another case of how the movie tries to create tension by not telling the audience things (although it was obvious that Luke wasn't actually there, given how different he looked), but it's almost always at the expense of the characters acting illogically.
His appearance is what spurs them to search for uncharted exits. There was no reason to suspect any alternate routes out until he turns up and they wrongly assume Luke found a back door. His intervention gave them the time to find the exit and also Rey time to fly to that spot.
Yes, that's an accurate description. He didn't even have the decency to tell his sister that he had failed her son, he didn't have the decency to try to help Ben after he left, and he's such a pathetic Jedi that he didn't try to stand up to the new dark side threat and instead just left it to other people.
Luke failed, just like his masters. I don't hate him for giving up because I understand why he did it. It's a shame, but that's a fun story.
And Kylo Ren is toxic but Darth Vader wasn't? I should need a five minute break for laughter every time someone suggests that. Kylo Ren is the most light filled dark sider we've ever seen.
Luke saw redemption in Vader. He doesn't in Kylo. Take it or leave it.
Vader was a scared young man who couldn't accept loss, who struggled to reconcile his feelings inside a strict religion. He was manipulated by an evil man, and did horrible things to save someone he loved. It cost him everything, and he embodied evil to survive. When presented with compassion for the first time in decades, he took his chance to do the right thing and helped save the day.
Everything we've seen from Kylo is far more complicated. He has been given multiple opportunities to change. He doesn't take them. It's entirely possible that he is worse than Vader.
So I take it you have no answer to how said Jedi Order preserved peace for a millennium, and you just avoided talking about it as it's devastating to your argument?
I don't dip particularly deeply into EU but from what I can tell there's a ton of death and violence pre-Empire. Considering how flawed and useless the Jedi were in the PT, it's hard to picture them ever being effective.
The Jedi Order did fail at the end, but it was in part due to that the dark side grew stronger and affected their powers, and enhanced those of the Sith. They made mistakes, but still had more success than anyone we've heard of in regards of keeping the peace.
They had their success, but they were gone for an entire generation. Luke was the only Jedi in the era that ended the tyranny of the Empire, and it appears that the galaxy was pretty peaceful until Luke's attempt to restart the order ended up spawning Vader Jr. His perception of the Jedi is pretty understandable.
And to point to more odd things in TLJ, if the Jedi Order was so bad, why does Luke listen to Yoda? Yoda was the leader of that order so logically his advice would be what Luke thinks should go away.
He is skeptical of Yoda. Until he starts making sense.
No, they didn't, and that's quite obvious if you've actually watched the movies. Yoda and Obi-Wan did attempt to remove the new threat, and when they failed they went into hiding with their last hope - Luke and Leia. It's clear that they planned to have Luke trained and hoped that he would be strong enough to overthrow the Sith. Luke gave up, they didn't.
Funnily enough, I have actually watched the movies. They lost (or just didn't bother to finish) their assassination attempts, then decided to go into hiding for 20 years and pin their hopes on tricking a young man into murdering his own father. Risky plan.
I wonder how much Obi-Wan could have achieved if he did
anything other than sit around and wait for Luke. Yoda too. Lets not pretend that protecting the kid was all that important. Vader wasn't looking for anyone. They didn't guard Leia at all, and they didn't even bother to change Luke's surname.
Luke suffered huge failures. Couldn't deal with it, went looking for answers in ancient Jedi texts and found nothing. He decided to let the order die with him rather than risk another failure, but ultimately
did come around to save the day.
By your logic, if Luke had simply said he was waiting for Rey to turn up, would everything be different?
If Luke faced Snoke and lost he'd have done what a Jedi is supposed to do, and he would have followed who he is, as established in all the previous movies. And even after failing that character is not likely to give up but to find a new hope, as being easily defeated by Vader did not stop his determination in the past.
I think that if you can't capture the essence of the old character then it's better to make movies without them. Han was devastated as well, but at least they kept his core intact and he was a very recognizable version of the character.
It's a shame you felt that way. Luke was my favourite part of the film.
