Why are Wally West, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown considered "TOXIC"?

[Lencho01]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/08/28/talking-to-dan-didio-about-stephanie-brown-and-rob-liefeld/

At Fan Expo Toronto, Dan DiDio spoke to one of our Little Bleeders at the show. This was before the Gail Simone/Bryan Q Miller Stephanie Brown pitch became common currency online, as well as the Rob Liefeld/Scott Snyder Twitter explosion. And he started asking Dan about the campaign to send waffles to protest the lack of Stephanie Brown-ness in the DC New 52.

I started off asking him how many waffles he got and he said about ten,(I wouldn’t be shocked if he rounded down) so I said there doesn’t seem to be as much demand as it appeared. He told me “yeah, there isn’t really any ground swell support for the character”. I then asked about the planned Stephanie Brown appearance in Smallville and Didio’s reaction was “They never should have done that.” He felt pretty strongly about it, emphasising it three times. He said that first of all as Stephanie was never Nightwing, there was no reason to put her in the comic as that character and that Smallville is about Superman and not Batman, so there’s no real point in putting Stephanie in to appease a small amount of fans, and the writer of the comic.

He was clearly rather annoyed about the situation, but the general feeling I got from him was that he believes only a few vocal fans actually care about the character. He pointed out the last time Stephanie was brought back because there was a groundswell of requests and it didn’t do anything, sales wise – even putting her in as Batgirl didn’t give her a bump. He said that they will be back eventually, and they are waiting for the right story.

I pointed out I think the big issue with with Cassandra Cain and Stephanie is that Batman’s story arc, with the exception of Barbara Gordon coming back. seems to be the same as before the New 52. You have all four male Robins. But we’re missing a Batgirl. He said that Barbara coming back into the suit meant DC could change that, presumably meaning there was never another Batgirl after Barbara was shot.
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[TheWatcher]

If Wally isn't introduced soon I'm going to hunt down DiDio and Johns.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Anything that pisses DiDio off brings a smile to my face at this point. I don't even care about Steph, but consider my cockles warmed.

 

[flash13]

I'll bet we'll get Wally back after Didio retires, that day can't come soon enough.

 

[HighFivingMF]

If Wally isn't introduced soon I'm going to hunt down DiDio and Johns.

I don't think Johns has anything to do with it.

 

[Donnie Darko]

I do wish Wally was around. Hell, I wish Barry never came back and Wally was still the main Flash. However, what really throws me off is how there is no Wally, but there is already a Bart. Like, I could see if they wanted to redo Wally as Kid Flash (even though that would suck because he would be so much younger than his former TT teammates), but just getting rid of him completely is so weird to me.

 

[Phatman]

I'll bet we'll get Wally back after Didio retires, that day can't come soon enough.

The end of the Didio/Lee/Johns/Harras Regime can't come fast enough for me. The four stooges have destroyed DC IMO.

 

[Mystirious]

I disagree

They've made some mistakes but Didio also supported books like Secret Six and Gotham Central which are fab and is super supportive of Batwoman which is a GREAT book

So he's not all bad at least

I'd rather he stay in charge because if he left we'd probably end up with someone even worse in charge of DC

 

[TheCorpulent1]

His management skills seem to be pretty terrible. The few creators who've talked about DC's editorial situation in the past few years have usually made it sound like a total madhouse, with DiDio changing his mind frequently and forcing whole departments to change stories out of nowhere.

 

[sethypants]

Because they're not who Geoff Johns and Dan Didio grew up with and things they grew up with are naturally superior and the existence of anything else is blasphemous insult to the things they grew up with so coexistence is impossible.

Also those guys are ****ing tools.

Geoff Johns grew up with Wally West and Kyle Rayner. He is not that old. He wrote a great run on Wally West and its collected in an omnibus.

 

[Spider-Nerd]

I miss how awesome Babs was as oracle.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The end of the Didio/Lee/Johns/Harras Regime can't come fast enough for me. The four stooges have destroyed DC IMO.

Apparently from George Perez and a few other creators, a lot of stuff is out of DiDio's control, much of it is Warner Bros. controlling a lot of it in order to preserve their brands.

DiDio's biggest crime IMO is that he pissed off great creators like Greg Rucka and Mark Waid to the point where they don't want to work at DC, which obviously hurts DC. As for the others, they really don't deserve blame. Lee's role as Co-Publisher is more along the lines of DC's digital efforts, Harras still has to answer to his bosses and you can't blame him for wanting to give his friends work (and as much as I hate to say it, Lobdell's books are selling), and Johns is making DC a bit more unified in their branding efforts.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I miss how awesome Babs was as oracle.

Yeah, she made the Bat-family into a well-oiled machine.

 

[Phatman]

Apparently from George Perez and a few other creators, a lot of stuff is out of DiDio's control, much of it is Warner Bros. controlling a lot of it in order to preserve their brands.

DiDio's biggest crime IMO is that he pissed off great creators like Greg Rucka and Mark Waid to the point where they don't want to work at DC, which obviously hurts DC. As for the others, they really don't deserve blame. Lee's role as Co-Publisher is more along the lines of DC's digital efforts, Harras still has to answer to his bosses and you can't blame him for wanting to give his friends work (and as much as I hate to say it, Lobdell's books are selling), and Johns is making DC a bit more unified in their branding efforts.

Damn. Working at DC Comics sounds like working a Civil Service job. No one is responsible for anything, friends hire friends and everyone is just collecting a check.

No wonder the products coming out of there are so mediocre. There's no accountability, no leadership, and no creativity.

When Did a division of a multinational corporation become the United States Postal Service?

 

[Assassin]

I think Wally doesn't exist right now because the Flash universe has been de-aged and Wally would have to be Kid Flash.

 

[Phatman]

I think Wally doesn't exist right now because the Flash universe has been de-aged and Wally would have to be Kid Flash.

But isn't Bart Kid Flash?

As it stands right now DC's editorial is just doing whatever it wants. No sense of professionalism or standards.

 

[Assassin]

But isn't Bart Kid Flash?

As it stands right now DC's editorial is just doing whatever it wants. No sense of professionalism or standards.

Bart is from the future.

Barry isn't even dating Iris yet

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But Dick's only a few years younger and he and Wally were around the same age.

 

[Assassin]

But Dick's only a few years younger and he and Wally were around the same age.

yea, in the old DCU

in the new 52, Wally might be the same age but he never had a reason to hang out with his aunt's boyfriend and never got the chemicals dumped on him.

yet.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Right, but you initially said everyone was de-aged, so Wally would have to be Kid Flash. Yet Nightwing should've been comparably de-aged and he's still Nightwing. So you wuz wrong.

 

[Assassin]

Right, but you initially said everyone was de-aged, so Wally would have to be Kid Flash. Yet Nightwing should've been comparably de-aged and he's still Nightwing. So you wuz wrong.

no, you're wrong. I said the flash universe was de-aged. I said Wally might be the same age. he might be younger.

 

[sethypants]

Wally fans have themselves to blame.
Fans of the Flash don't even care about him. Despite being such a great character, prior to Barry's return, sales have been pretty miserable. Despite having huge names creators like Johns and Waid, no one gave a sht about The Flash.
So obviously, Barry's return signify the return to the silver age, and that means, movie producers can start writing about The Flash without having to think how to write Barry Allen's death into Wally West's life.
This also signifies that there isn't big enough a market for two Flash to be running around DCU. Besides, Wally West really is pretty interchangeable with Barry Allen.
Just look at this forum, there isn't even much activity for The Flash

 

[flash13]

There would be more activity for The Flash on this forum if the book didn't suck. Saying Wally and Barry are interchangeable is like saying Dick and Bruce are, or Steve and Bucky.

 

[WompuM]

Honestly, I think the way Young Justice has it is the right way to go. Dick as Nightwing. Wally as Kid Flash. Bart as Impulse. I'd rather have Kid-Flash Wally than no Wally.

 

[SuperFerret]

I'll bet we'll get Wally back after Didio retires, that day can't come soon enough.

Irony.