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Comics Joe Q is an idiot

Because... umm you should read the thread's title for your answer...
 
It is an interesting point. Why not just make Ultimate as the main line to get new readers hooked in with and let Peter continue to grow in the 616 universe.

Because Ultimate can't be traced back to Stan Lee and the silverage. Ultimate is still seen as the re-working of Spider-Man. People still look at the cover of Amazing Fantasy #15 as the real depiction of Spider-Man.
 
As do I. I never got into Ultimate because it felt like an inferior re-imagining. But I know for the whole two weeks (okay more like a year) after the first Spidey movie Ultimate Spider-Man was huge for kids jumping on the bandwagon....and then they vanished.

But Ultimate serves this end. Why just detract from 616 more?
 
This is what should happen after One More Day:
1. Dr. Strange or Loki will mindwipe the whole world including Stark that Peter unmasked as Spider-Man. Spider-Man without a secret identity takes away too many of what makes a Spidey comic book great and fun. It would be great if Peter and Dr. Strange or Loki is the one who knows about this. Because if Peter still remebers his unmasking, It will be a great reminder for him to keep his identity secret forever. If Peter won't remember that he once unmasked, he could get into the trouble of unmasking again.
2. MJ will still know Peter is Spidey, Pete is still her husband, but what she will forget is the unmasking and all the stuff that happened after the unmasking. Too many fans will be angered if they bring down the marriage, even if Joe Q. does not like this, i believe that the people in Marvel have convinced him that great Spidey stories can still be told whether Peter is married or not. I believe Joe Q is just misleading us.
3. The classic Spidey status quo will return: Peter as a photographer in daily bugle with a supporting cast of Jameson, Robertson, Betty (now a reporter), and maybe Urich, and i hope they add the Huffman character from the movies. Peter's love life will now be about taking care of his marriage while being a superhero. I really like Aunt May knowing Spidey is Pete, so I hope that stays too. I would like an emphasis of Spidey not being a registered hero. Peter as a teacher is also a concept I'd like to retain, but I want a supporting cast here of Flash Thompson as a coach, the principal, and other members of the faculty who will either mess or befriend Peter.
4. After Dr. Strange or Loki's mindwiping, the pieces of crap known as magic and mystical stuff will forever disappear from the Spidey books.
5. New and old villains baby.
6. The Other, Sins Past will also be forgotten now.
7. Only 2 Spidey books will be left: Dan Slott and Wieringo on Amazing, Matt Fraction and on Spectacular. If there will be a 3rd book, better be Friendly Neighborhood with Jeff Parker.

Nuff' said.
 
Originally posted by Sloth7d



I dunno, personally i liked the whole love triangle thing with Jill Stacy, it was really getting interesting until JMS came and COMPLETELY deleted her from the Marvel universe. I hope she comes back, i would love to see her perspective on the unmasking.
I'll admit, while I didn't like the whole Jill Stacy thing atleast the supporting cast was light years above what it is now. JMS does suck when it comes to writing Spider-man. He needs to stick to other titles, because he's not a bad writer. But he can't write Spider-man to save his life.
 
It is an interesting point. Why not just make Ultimate as the main line to get new readers hooked in with and let Peter continue to grow in the 616 universe.
I would agree if ultimates didn't suck so much.
 
Point is....all the thousands of single people who can't mentally tolerate a married Spidey or feel connected to their hero if he is married....they can read Ultimate Spidey where he is young and single and they can start reading that and feel fulfilment.
 
Point is....all the thousands of single people who can't mentally tolerate a married Spidey or feel connected to their hero if he is married....they can read Ultimate Spidey where he is young and single and they can start reading that and feel fulfilment.

They could also follow 98% of all other superheroes, Marvel, DC or whatever.
 
Point is....all the thousands of single people who can't mentally tolerate a married Spidey or feel connected to their hero if he is married....they can read Ultimate Spidey where he is young and single and they can start reading that and feel fulfilment.

Exactly. I happen to prefer Ultimate Spider-Man as well, but if you change 616 to fit in more with USM, then what is the point in USM even existing. The whole point of having different books is to please your entire audience by having a book that each of them can enjoy. Making 616 Parker a young single kid again defeats the entire purpose of having two universes in the first place. It will just alienate the 616 fans and the Ultimate fans won't bother buying the 616 books anyways.
 
I'm not one to defend Joe Q (and I'm not going to), but hasn't this discussion gone totally off the rails? The biggest gripe in this whole thread is the speculation that Marvel would have Peter and MJ, a married couple, dating? Where does he say that?...did I miss something?...

A discussion...wait...cancel that. A mass slaughtering of Joe Quesada going totally off the rails? That's never happened before!!! :oldrazz:

Some people are a "little more passionate" about certain things in their comic books. But I don't really see how it's healthy or going to help anyone constantly complaining about what an idiot he is on the Internet. One thing that I notice about the guy is his ability to poke at fans and mess with their emotions. That bothers me just as much as it does anybody else. But the guy ISN'T an idiot. Just because the guy isn't making the decisions on the character that you don't like doesn't make him an idiot. It's just like when people have an arguement here on this board...it's a difference of opinion. Trust me...if he was REALLY an idiot he wouldn't have lasted in the Editor in Chief position for as long as he has.

I really hope that One More Day is about Baby May so I can laugh hysterically at all the madness that has transpired in this thread.
 
Maybe we should start talking about how much great stuff JQ has done that makes spidey look good, and stays within character for him.

This thread should say...."JOEY Q IS A GENIOUS". :whatever:

The thing is, like i said in another post here....I personally don't think JQ is an idiot...and i wouldn't have personally titled a thread that....

For Marvel as a whole, sure he has done some good things.
(I can personally give him some credit)

For Spidey as a whole........uh........no.....IMO.
 
Civil War I think was a good idea on paper.

But he pushes some things too hard and his ideas for spidey suck and are the same mistakes as the writers/editors of the '90s when they tried to ditch MJ with the Clone saga and all its aftermath.
 
Civil War I think was a good idea on paper.

But he pushes some things too hard and his ideas for spidey suck and are the same mistakes as the writers/editors of the '90s when they tried to ditch MJ with the Clone saga and all its aftermath.

I was going to say that Bob Harris was the EIC when MANY of the things that went bad with Spidey were decided... so to his credit, it was probably a difficult thing for JQ to do as the new EIC in 2000 to turn things around sales-wise for Marvel.

And as stated, I believe he has done a good job as a whole, though a few of his ideas have been over the top and simply unecessary. But you could say that about Jim Shooter & Tom DeFalco, both of whom had long tenures as EIC at Marvel during the 80's & 90's when, along with Bob Harris (who was EIC until 2000) were in charge of Marvel when a LOT of good things AND bad things developped for our favorite characters, Spider-Man included.

You can say what you want about the guy, but the bottom line is that Spidey books sell better now than they did for the last decade, and I'm still going to wait until I have read "One More Day" for my asessment on that story.

Cheers...

TMoB
 
I really hope that One More Day is about Baby May so I can laugh hysterically at all the madness that has transpired in this thread.

What if it was about Ben Reilly?

:woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:

*runs away cackling hysterically*
 
Nooooooooooooooooo! Ben musn't be raped by Joey Q!!!!! or BABY MAY FOR THAT MATTER!!!!

Sure Joey has done some good things... but when it comes to Spider-man he's an idiot... plain and simple...
*mutters* allowing Gwen to sleep with Norman and having Goblin babies... stupid eight year olds in adult bodies.... stupid spider-totem and magical powers... unmasking...
I'm really sounding like a fanboy again... He's still an idiot...
 
And while we don't know for SURE what will happen in One More Day (tho i think i have a pretty good idea).....all that we have to go by, and talk about....is all of JQ's juicy little quotes that he pompously puts out there!

Fact is...there is a lot of stuff (too much) that could use a good retcon or mindwiping to solve. The marriage however, isn't one of them.
 
Maybe we should start talking about how much great stuff JQ has done that makes spidey look good, and stays within character for him.

This thread should say...."JOEY Q IS A GENIOUS". :whatever:

The thing is, like i said in another post here....I personally don't think JQ is an idiot...and i wouldn't have personally titled a thread that....

For Marvel as a whole, sure he has done some good things.
(I can personally give him some credit)

For Spidey as a whole........uh........no.....IMO.

Maybe there should be a thread that states all the extremely positive things he's done for the comic book industry. Maybe add a little balance on these boards for once.

I'm not going to say that every decision on Spider-Man that was made has been a good one. In fact, there were a few bad decisions...but a few in just 7 to 8 years time isn't that bad. But I try to think about it from the perspective of an editor in chief. You want to get people excited about comic books and get them to keep picking them up. If you have Spider-Man going on the same boring adventures he went on 20 years ago and fighting the same villains that he was fighting 20 years ago you are NOT going to really add too much readership to the title.

In fact, if it wasn't for the Spider-Man movies being released during most of this time I don't know where these comics would be, to tell you the truth. But the fact of the matter is I can give credit where credit is due. Quesada is daring to be different in a lot of areas and is willing to take the character to new places in order to bring that readership to the title.

Now...that doesn't sound like an idiot to me. That just sounds like a guy who is also a big fan of Spider-Man trying to get the stories out to as many people as he possibly can.
 
SPIDEYINATREE: Quesada is daring to be different in a lot of areas and is willing to take the character to new places in order to bring that readership to the title.

JQ is "daring to be different" all right! LOL

By maybe with Spidey, specifically, he has tried TOO HARD to make him too many different things outside of the characters core, in order to bring in a special cross section of fans.

GWEN SLEEPING WITH GOBS ARC to appeal to soap opera fans...
SPIDEY STINGER POP OUT CLAWS to help draw in the wolverine fans...
ORGANIC WEB SHOOTERS to pull in movie fans & vegetarians
TOTEM POLE ORIGINS to pull in the sci-fi fans and indians
UNMASKING to pull in "marvel big event" fans & stripper fans....
BLACK COSTUME ARC to pull in the movie and 80's fans...

and soon the...

SPIDEY IS SINGLE AND MJ DOESN"T KNOW SHE IS MARRIED ARC for the little kids and for the older fans who can't find a wife.

(these examples are admittedly tongue in cheek....)

But my point is...maybe JQ is trying TOO HARD to make Spidey APPEAL to EVERYONE and by doing so, is straying too far from the character and thus angering the "fan" who is just a "fan" and always has been a "fan".

What's next...SPIDEY ILLEGAL MEXICAN IMMIGRANT ARC?

WIth too much mindwiping, time altering...anything is possible..and JQ IS DARING.
 
I'm definately going to agree with SpideyInATree. He has done LIGHTYEARS better than Harris, who came in in the middle of the Clone Saga and shot things to hell from there.

On the whole, there have been maybe 2 or 3 things that I can think of since JQ came on that I can say have really sucked. But guess what- he's just the top of the ladder, and these problems rest on many of the other staffers and writers as well.

Point is, they are comic books. Just for Spiderman we can have nearly a dozen new stories every month. That's hundreds of stories a year. What else can say that? Movies? Books? Even television shows? Nothing.

The great thing about comics is that they are always coming out, always new, hip, now, wow, and how. If there's some duds, then oh well. There are so many new stories coming out that you can quickly forget about the bad before hand. There's so many things in the past that if Sins Past really WAS that bad then we never have to worry about seeing it again. And even if we do, who cares?

There's sure to be something just as bad eventually that will take over our web of hatred, just as there will be something amazing that will remind us why we started reading in the first place- and why we've stuck with it, even when the going got tough.
 
I never said that a lot of the decisions he made were good ones. Some, in my opinion, were interesting decisions that have paid off for fans and business. But it's still daring and at least he's willing to keep trying to find something that will stick, even through years and years of harsh criticism from the fans.

Personally, I think you're being a little cynical about a lot of the things that have happened to the character over the years. There were definitely two storylines in Quesada's tenure where the character strayed and the story just didn't make any sense. Sins Past and The Other I'm willing to sit here and agree with 100 percent that those were dumb decisions.

As far as the other storylines go I don't think the character was ever compromised. JMS has always done a great job and keeping Peter Parker the same character we've known. A couple bad storylines can taint a great run though. Especially with Spider-Man fans.

Of course Spider-Man was put in the black costume to coincide with the movie. Everyone could see that coming the second it was announced the black costume would be in the movie. Truth be told the storylines in the comics really are pretty good. Peter David, Sacasa, and JMS have been really doing a great job with the Spider-Man title since Civil War and the Back in Black storyline.

While Quesada may be annoying and come off rather arrogant in interviews. I'm going to give him credit for doing a pretty good job with Marvel. We're just talking Spider-Man here but look at what he's accomplished with the entire Marvel line of comics. We could sit here and list the plethora of titles and talent that have surfaced. Daredevil being a title that comes to mind. But that's all beside the point. He's willing to take the Spider-Man character through different avenues, and it may not be popular choices, he's still willing to give it a shot. Maybe it will stick with fans this time. At least he's willing to try it out and take the criticism as well.
 
This is what should happen after One More Day:
1. Dr. Strange or Loki will mindwipe the whole world including Stark that Peter unmasked as Spider-Man. Spider-Man without a secret identity takes away too many of what makes a Spidey comic book great and fun. It would be great if Peter and Dr. Strange or Loki is the one who knows about this. Because if Peter still remebers his unmasking, It will be a great reminder for him to keep his identity secret forever. If Peter won't remember that he once unmasked, he could get into the trouble of unmasking again.
2. MJ will still know Peter is Spidey, Pete is still her husband, but what she will forget is the unmasking and all the stuff that happened after the unmasking. Too many fans will be angered if they bring down the marriage, even if Joe Q. does not like this, i believe that the people in Marvel have convinced him that great Spidey stories can still be told whether Peter is married or not. I believe Joe Q is just misleading us.
3. The classic Spidey status quo will return: Peter as a photographer in daily bugle with a supporting cast of Jameson, Robertson, Betty (now a reporter), and maybe Urich, and i hope they add the Huffman character from the movies. Peter's love life will now be about taking care of his marriage while being a superhero. I really like Aunt May knowing Spidey is Pete, so I hope that stays too. I would like an emphasis of Spidey not being a registered hero. Peter as a teacher is also a concept I'd like to retain, but I want a supporting cast here of Flash Thompson as a coach, the principal, and other members of the faculty who will either mess or befriend Peter.
4. After Dr. Strange or Loki's mindwiping, the pieces of crap known as magic and mystical stuff will forever disappear from the Spidey books.
5. New and old villains baby.
6. The Other, Sins Past will also be forgotten now.
7. Only 2 Spidey books will be left: Dan Slott and Wieringo on Amazing, Matt Fraction and on Spectacular. If there will be a 3rd book, better be Friendly Neighborhood with Jeff Parker.

Nuff' said.


I agree with everything except #2. I dont think MJ will remember. It's more tragic that way. Otherwise, what's the point of them having "one more day"?

This way (in a way), everybody wins; Joe Q gets the marriage cancelled, but MJ can still be in the books for Peter to try and win back.
 
I was going to say that Bob Harris was the EIC when MANY of the things that went bad with Spidey were decided... so to his credit, it was probably a difficult thing for JQ to do as the new EIC in 2000 to turn things around sales-wise for Marvel.

Oh Hell yeah. Harras was all about The X-Men, and The X-Men only. He could give a rat's ass about the rest of Marvel's characters.

That's one of the things i admire about Joe Q, going all the way back to his Marvel Knights days...he took characters from the forgotten corners of the MArvel Universe (Daredevil, Panther, Inhumans, Black Widow), and helped re-establish them.

All the way to the present. Im reading more Marvel titles than i have since the late eighties, going back to books like Captain America which i havent bought on a regular basis in nearly two decades.
 
I personally don't dislike JQ.

I'd personally never call him an idiot, which i've stated in mulitple posts.

He's done some good for Marvel.

I don't like many of his Spidey "decisions" under his tenure.

Has he made me pick up some other titles...?....sure. Some good stuff.

Overall, IMO, Spidey has been out of character (and others) in his related titles more often than not. Daring can be good sometimes, but sometimes it is only daring, not wise.

Rereading Civil War TPB, I'd also say a lot of characters felt forced and out of character, not just Peter Parker. But yet, I'm reading it AGAIN...LOL.

Just not a fan of JQ's "take" on Spidey lore, or what he's allowed overall.
 

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