Superman Returns Why didn't Singer read the SM DC Archives?

[Kabuki_Jo]

I dont know if most of the ppl in this forum had the chance to watch "An evening with Kevin Smith, where he, at one point of the interview, talks about the development of a script for a possible new Superman movie.

I recall, at one point, he said they ( I assume DC ) gave him incredible access to the Superman DC archives so he could work ideas into the script.

My question is then: Do you think Singer or his script writers ever got into reading that stuff, or maybe they weren't allowed to?
Because if they did, that would obviously have majorly contributed to a great movie, but we all know that's not what happened.

I've decided to make a thread about this because no one cares to reply about this singular topic in the complaints thread, and it's not actually much of a complaint, really.

Post your thoughts.
Hope this thread is original enough to stay open.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

Everyone has access to comics, and having a few archives myself....Let's just say i'm glad they weren't influenced by Silver Age Superman (who is in most of the availible archives).
I'd rather them read stuff like BIRTHRIGHT, MAN OF STEEL, and FOR ALL SEASONS. And watch TAS. That would influence them more positively.

 

[Mentok]

Of course they were given access to the comics. They also talked to the artists and people involved with the current comics.

Singer chose not to go on the comics, rather base it off the first two films with the "crazy scary sci-fi stuff" to come in the following films.

 

[Spare-Flair]

Prior to Superman Returns, Singer stated he had never once read a Superman comic in his life.

During production however, his writing team did read a few issues that they had lying about including Birthright and Superman for All Seasons.

Then again, this is the same writing team that came up with the Superkid plot and "Truth, Justice, and all that stuff".

 

[dar-El]

The only book Singer and his team read was the 1999 Graphic novel Son of Superman. It has roughly the same plot. Lex creates some incident that has Superman dissapear for a number of years leaving Lois to bring up their son (named Jon Kent) then superman returns only to find lex has ripped the fortress of solitude to pieces and sold its technology. Mix that with the original film and ytou have Singers waful movie.

 

[Matt]

Arrogance, ego, stubbornness, take your pick.

 

[buggs0268]

Because he had the idea for this movie since he saw Supes 2 in 1981. Spacey said that he would tell everyone on every set that he worked with Singer on that "I have this idea for a new Supeerman movie" based off of Superman 2. I bet the idea was "give Superman a son. I mean he and Lois had sex when he was human in Superman 2. I didn't see any protection, so a kid is naturally going to occure." I bet that was his whole f'n idea and that was all of it.

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

The only book Singer and his team read was the 1999 Graphic novel Son of Superman. It has roughly the same plot. Lex creates some incident that has Superman dissapear for a number of years leaving Lois to bring up their son (named Jon Kent) then superman returns only to find lex has ripped the fortress of solitude to pieces and sold its technology. Mix that with the original film and ytou have Singers waful movie.

That's strikingly similar to the movie plot.
Based on that we can assume Singer used no creativity at all, but was rather copying things from that graphic novel and Donner's STM.

 

[melfangiel]

My guess is that Singer doesn't really love the original character of Superman but worships the Donner films. But then again, he could've at least done some of his own homework... who knows...

 

[X Knight]

blinded by his own fanboy vision........

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

blinded by his own fanboy vision........

I'd drop the fanboy and put quotation marks around vision.

 

[buggs0268]

Well it is like Williams said about STM on the DVD "there will be many films about Superman after this, but I think we really got this one right. And they did. Yeah they had to tone down Luthor and and Otis to make them campy as they knew this was a film that parentw woudl be taking their kids too, and dropping their kids off at on Saturday Matinees. Had they done it now, Luthor would have been darker and no Otis. They got Superman at the time "before crisis". Singer could have kept in the fortress and every thing else and had a good story and it would have been fine. The problem was is that he decided to make a chick flick. A soap opera. No one wanted to see a soap opera.

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

Arrogance, ego, stubbornness, take your pick.

How about all of them?

 

[WormyT]

Heres what he said.

 

[E-Mack]

As much as I was against the Singer-haters before the movie, that manip holds a lot of truth.

I find it very strange that Singer was talking about all these different Superman incarnations, which gave me hope that while he was going to follow Donner, he'd incorporate more modern elements. But as I finished watching SR, it seemed so obvious he just plain ignored everything but Donner.

 

[WTFwuzThT]

And that is why he won't be back for another one.

 

[Carp Man]

it seemed so obvious he just plain ignored everything but Donner.

And that is why it has underperformed. He made a Donner clone, and unless he gets his head out of his rear end, and realizes Donners version of Superman is finished, as is Lex, as is Zod, he should not be back. Fresh ideas, and a new, fresh version of Superman is needed.

 

[buggs0268]

I don't even think that he followed Donner is where he messed up. It is that he bascailly plagerized dialogue, and did his taking the audience on the same journey as STM. We dont need to be taken on the same journey of a really great movie. We need to go do something new with the character. And what is worse is, they are both about the same length, but STM has a lot more scenes, character, etc. I mean you feel like you have really taken a journey into the characters origons from child to becoming Superman at the end. This was like "I know I just spent over 2 hours watching a movie, but what happened. i remember the plane save but that was about it." Also, he made a damn soap opera with Superman in it. Who puts Superman and Days of our lives episode together? Singer and the wack pack is who.

I also think taking out the Krypton stuff was a big detriment to the film. It would have opened it up and made it bigger.

 

[Topdawg]

Singer is an idiot, he should of read the comics.

 

[dpm07]

First of all, that manip rules and really illustrates that a picture is worth a thousand words!

Singer's interpretation of Superman with SR is indicative of the fact that he is extremely egomaniacal and arrogant to exclude most of the source material out there with the exception of the Donner film.

Singer gave the world a rehash of the Donner film albeit with a few changes that did nothing really productive to the character and just added Superson. Singer provided a horrible presentation and one can see how limited his writing staff of whack pack writers were with this rendition of Superman.

It is a sad travesty to the masses that the best thing we could get after waiting all these years was basically Singer's fetish film that was basically a rehash of the Donner film.

 

[X Knight]

and sadly......Singer, imo, actually detracted from the whole Superman mythos!!

 

[The Kid]

First of all, that manip rules and really illustrates that a picture is worth a thousand words!

Singer's interpretation of Superman with SR is indicative of the fact that he is extremely egomaniacal and arrogant to exclude most of the source material out there with the exception of the Donner film.

Singer gave the world a rehash of the Donner film albeit with a few changes that did nothing really productive to the character and just added Superson. Singer provided a horrible presentation and one can see how limited his writing staff of whack pack writers were with this rendition of Superman.

It is a sad travesty to the masses that the best thing we could get after waiting all these years was basically Singer's fetish film that was basically a rehash of the Donner film.

When Lex said, "Land Miss Lane, Land." That was it for me. I was done with singer's vision.

Sad, but... true. I liked some things but overall it was a big thumbs down for using STM as a crutch.

 

[X Knight]

ummm.......do you think Singer would have been better off if he and Donner got together and basically do a Re-Make of the original 2 Superman movies, perhaps with Donner's original vision?

Essentially........do the same movies....but with different actors and our modern special effects.

I mean....if he did that......and people knew it was actually a re-make.....instead of the whole vague sequel thing.....

 

[WormyT]

ummm.......do you think Singer would have been better off if he and Donner got together and basically do a Re-Make of the original 2 Superman movies, perhaps with Donner's original vision?

Essentially........do the same movies....but with different actors and our modern special effects.

I mean....if he did that......and people knew it was actually a re-make.....instead of the whole vague sequel thing.....

Naaahh.
Superman 1,2 are classics and don't need to be remade. Theres only ONE Chris Reeves. It was the first, it was fresh and epic for it's time but almost 30 years later I think we need a new vision.

-The whole icey krypton/crystal disco ball stuff needs to be redesigned. Looks interesting, but sorry, never made any sence. What a horrible place to live. Krypton should be shown as a functioning alien planet with lush landscapes(well at least before it gets radiated with green K).

-We need a new functional Fortress of solitude thats filled with artifacts from around the galaxy, weapons robots and perhaps a big lock. This is supposed to be like a functional recreational/lab/base facility. NOT an ice berg filled with fruity icepops that play 3d movies on icey cyclinders.

-We need GOOD actors that have chemistry. lose Bostworth, but maybe give Brandon another chance? He'll be a bit better next time. he definitely needs more screen time and absolutely needs to work on his Clark Kent.

-The suit needs to be a bit brighter. I was all for the new design until he was crawling like a fool on NK with what looked like my grandmothers brown shower curtain draped over his back. And the 'S' looks a bit like Tupperwear.(or plastic party plate), Like a Superman novelty plate my little 2 year old nephew would eat off. It also looks like a frisby.

-The plane rescue scene was great but really that should have been an appetiser for some real hi octane action. Lets see Superman and Metallo really wreck s#!t up. Lifting a giant continent is just not very compelling and is really quite a boring finale to a kitchen sink romance.

-Metropolis? Where is it, we never got a great view of the City like in Batman Begins where we got ariel shots of the narrows, the center of town etc. here they seemed to avoid giving us a clear shot of the landscape. The only monuments I remember is the Daily Planet.

-And the bloody story. Have a story that makes sence next time. No bloody fizzy crystals. Make sure the director makes Superman the main character. Superman should have magnetic presence when on the screen. The guys like a god, hes humble but he ain't dumb and hes got a temper like everyone else.

-Oh..and fire Bryan Singer.

 

[X Knight]

how cool would it have been if the Plane Sequence/ Ballpark Save was Superman's FIRST outing in an origin movie?

That could have been the public's first look at this Superman........there would be silence at first, when Supes saves the plane.....then thunderous applause......

This could have played well into the whole acceptance/belonging issue. At first, the public would accept Supes.....but Lex could turn Public Opinion against supes ( like in Birthright or even hinted at in Smalleville )......saying Supes is an alien spy....the vanguard of a coming alien invasion.....

then you could have such an invasion......led by GENERAL Zod.....or Brainiac....or Darkseid........then it's up to Supes to defend his adopted his planet against both Luthor and the alien threat........

ok.....perhaps that is a tad cliche........but there are so many stories that could've been adapted to the big screen......

And.....I still think they should have just RESTARTED the franchise...ala Batman Begins.....y'know....give a FRESH, NEW start....for a new generation..........Not something that is widely different (like the Abrams script ).......but something that is different and new....while still being respectful to tradition....