Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm not sayin' that made the movie crap I'm just saying I would perfer the movie have that in it. Superman was only interesting IMO when he went all out on something,and in Returns there was nothing he could really find a challenge in.

Sorry, I jut TOTALLY disagree, I dont find Superman interesting because he punches things, I find him interesting because he is the last of his race, because he gives so much for humanity despite not being human, and because he tries so hard to fit in but ultimately, most of the time, doesnt.

 

[BH/HHH]

Sorry, I jut TOTALLY disagree, I dont find Superman interesting because he punches things, I find him interesting because he is the last of his race, because he gives so much for humanity despite not being human, and because he tries so hard to fit in but ultimately, most of the time, doesnt.

Agree with you there

I loved Superman Returns to be honest and want a MOS Singer sequel.

 

[unstoppable]

Sorry, I jut TOTALLY disagree, I dont find Superman interesting because he punches things, I find him interesting because he is the last of his race, because he gives so much for humanity despite not being human, and because he tries so hard to fit in but ultimately, most of the time, doesnt.

Well alright more power to ya. I honestly don't really care. You have to put in consideration that I hate superman more than killing babies.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Agree with you there

I loved Superman Returns to be honest and want a MOS Singer sequel.

Agreed, I still think its a superb movie that, despite some flaws, manages to catch most of the essentials of Superman pretty damn well.

It reminds a lot of Birthright, which, despite some flaws, I found to be an excellent Superman story.

Well alright more power to ya. I honestly don't really care. You have to put in consideration that I hate superman more than killing babies.

LOL, then its pretty obvious you wont like his movies then.

 

[Oddzball]

Can someone explain to me why Superman fans seem not to like Superman Returns?

Personally, I think it's a great film, and one of the best superhero movies of all time, probably only behind Batman Begins and Spider-Man 2.

What don't they like? The fact that it's a rehash/homage to Donner? Who cares? It's the start of the franchise, what better way to start out?

Not enough action? Call me crazy, but I think the airplane sequence is one of the coolest things I've ever seen a movie.

The suit? I mean, c'mon, it looks fine. Compare it to what Batman and the X-Men wear relative to the comics.

So what is it? To me, other than Lois Lane (Bosworth sucks) the casting is great, the production values and effects are MAGNIFICENT and the story is a classic Superman story. What do people hate? That he has a kid?

Sorry, I'm not the hugest Superman fan in the world, but I loved this movie and it seemed like a fantastic adaptation to me. What don't people like about it?

It fell short on numerous points.

1) The character of Superman is a pretty straight forward guy. Singers was unneedfully deceptive and evasive. The only person on Earth who learns WHY he was gone for 5 years is the one who already knew. Except of course if you were keepting to previous movie continutiy, that person was DEAD.

To top it off, Singer turns Superman into a creepy stalker type.

2) There is a fine line between 'homage' and 'retread'. Singer didn't pull of any homage. Homage can be good. Not always. The Barb Wire movie WAS an homage Cassablanca. That fact did not save that movie.

Retreads tend to be bad, but sometimes the familar pays off. Bond films are an example of this.

But a retread of Donner's movie doesn't work without Donner's humor and his eye for detail, such as Clark becoming Superman only in a context where a meek mild reporter might day dream of being heroic. See 'Subtlety' below.
3) Luthor was BORING. Spacey really did the character an injustice. Admittedly I'm spoiled by Clancy Brown's Luthor in JLU. But "I'm so smart I won't even let the audience in on wht I'm thinking!" does not work well in an audiovisual medium.

Besides: Superman 1: Luthor. Superman 2: Zone villains and Luthor. superman 3: Robert Vaughn imitating Gene Hackman's Luthor. Superman 4: Luthor and the Atomic Man.

Superman Returns: Luthor.

ENOUGH LUTHOR! Nolan was smart enough to bring in Ras al Ghul for the first of the new bat films. A villain with a generous history but one unknown to the casual audience.

Brainiac, Mongul or Silver Banshee would have been better adversaires for Returns.

4) Subtlety. Donner had Jor-el's holographic face break down into the face on the shroud of Turin. The Superman as a metaphor for Jesus bit was restricted to that and "I have given them you - my only son'. Singer turns it into the goddamned crucifixion and ressurection.

This is subtle only in comparison with Phillip Jose Farmer (writing as Kilgore Trout)'s line "The Sun came crashing through like a gold brick thrown through a window."!!

5) Plot holes: Superman couldn't coat himself in lead before taking on the Kryptonite? (And show Luthor's intellect a bit by having him prepared for that by launching a missile that hits Superman and shreds the lead just at the point Where Superman might falter and have it fall back to Earth?)

 

[BH/HHH]

Agreed, I still think its a superb movie that, despite some flaws, manages to catch most of the essentials of Superman pretty damn well.

It reminds a lot of Birthright, which, despite some flaws, I found to be an excellent Superman story.

Agree with you there and on birthright too

 

[I Am The Knight]

Well alright more power to ya. I honestly don't really care. You have to put in consideration that I hate superman more than killing babies.

Okay then

 

[Nightwing1977]

Sorry, I jut TOTALLY disagree, I dont find Superman interesting because he punches things, I find him interesting because he is the last of his race, because he gives so much for humanity despite not being human, and because he tries so hard to fit in but ultimately, most of the time, doesnt.

Yep.

 

[stargazer]

Sorry, I jut TOTALLY disagree, I dont find Superman interesting because he punches things, I find him interesting because he is the last of his race, because he gives so much for humanity despite not being human, and because he tries so hard to fit in but ultimately, most of the time, doesnt.

EXACTLY. The greater the power, the bigger the responsibility.

Yep.

Hey! Nice to see ya around!

 

[El Payaso]

He's always... around.

 

[Double Down]

Agree with you there

I loved Superman Returns to be honest and want a MOS Singer sequel.

That would be ideal.

 

[I Am The Knight]

EXACTLY. The greater the power, the bigger the responsibility.

^I like this quote. So true.

 

[Nightwing1977]

He's always... around.

And you're right. Good to see you again as well, MP.

 

[stargazer]

^I like this quote. So true.

Good. And they say that it is very lonely at the top, and Superman is the most powerful superhero (or one of the most powerful ones in the DCU).

And you're right. Good to see you again as well, MP.

Cool! t:

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Agree with you there and on birthright too

Yep.

Agree with both of you guys, if ANY SR fans havent read Birthright, you guys should, there are actually A LOT similarities in certain scene's and parts of the stories (Lex using Kryptonian tech, though in a different way, at one point Superman recharges from being close to Kryptonite by bathing in Sunlight, and also, Clark in Birthright raises his voice when he isnt Superman, which Brandon also does in SR.

EXACTLY. The greater the power, the bigger the responsibility.

Good point MP, and thats why, often, he doesnt fit in.

Good. And they say that it is very lonely at the top, and Superman is the most powerful superhero (or one of the most powerful ones in the DCU).

Again, this is a VERY good point MP, and unique perspective on the character I hadnt considered before, hhhhmmmmm.

 

[Kiltak]

I hate Superman Returns, it is one of the worse films of all time. I know many will disagree with me and there entitled to there opinions. Superman Returns was a waste of 200 million dollars. I mean we should have gotten a smackdown fight with a villain like Darkseid, or Matellio or something, instead we get a rehash of Superman 1.

Don't even get me started on the obvious mistakes made in the movie. To give you an example. In one scene Superman is getting beat up by Lex thugs because he is being affected by Kryptonite. Yet a few minutes letter he lifts this massive Kryptonite Island over his head and in to space, any one see the flaw in this. It begs the question if he could left the Island up over his head and take in to space after being beaten up and stabbed with Kryptonite, why didn't he chunk Lex and his thugs in to space. This just one of many examples of a poorly writen script.

I'm glad there not doing a sequal based on Superman Returns.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

To give you an example. In one scene Superman is getting beat up by Lex thugs because he is being affected by Kryptonite. Yet a few minutes letter he lifts this massive Kryptonite Island over his head and in to space, any one see the flaw in this.

There is no flaw. Superman is solar powered, and right before lifting New Krypton into space, he repowered himself by direct contact with sunlight.

 

[afan]

There is no flaw. Superman is solar powered, and right before lifting New Krypton into space, he repowered himself by direct contact with sunlight.

It seems you're missing the point.......The flaw has nothing to do with the power granting nature of the sun.

It has to do with the Green K. Green K immediately incapacitates Superman, there is no defense against it's influence, save for the sheilding properties of lead. No matter how much Superman "powers up" the presence of Green K drops him in his tracks.

Now some have argued that the Green K in NK was not pure, which explains the ability for Superman to resist it while lifting NK into orbit, but does not fit his inability to resist it long enough to take out Luthor's thugs.

The flaw is inarguably there.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

It seems your missing the point.......The flaw has nothing to do with the power granting nature of the sun.

It has to do with the Green K. Green K immediately incapacitates Superman, there is no defense against it's influence, save for the sheilding properties of lead. No matter how much Superman "powers up" the presence of Green K drops him in his tracks.

Now some have argued that the Green K in NK was not pure, which explains the ability for Superman to resist it while lifting NK into orbit, but does not fit his inability to resist it long enough to take out Luthor's thugs.

The flaw is inarguably there.

Let's examine the context wherein this perceived "flaw" occurs. Your postulation that the absorption of the sun's rays by the subject's cells can never maintain precedence over the effects of green kryptonite, even withstanding a close proximity in time (mere moments in this case), may indeed be a solid statement if it were to be accepted from the narrow and common viewpoint of "face value."

K?

A boost from solar energy before the deed? That's enough to for me, as long as he soon pays the price of a downfall. Which happened. It did eventually incapacitate him. There's also the emotions to take into account (caused by knowing that many, many people were about die, the earth about to be doomed, and also the thirst for vengeance and justice given Lex & Co.'s cruel and ruthless behavior toward him in the last few scenes), likely also served as a boost; akin to or plain being an adrenaline rush. To ignore that is to be blind to the obvious.

Those were all sufficient enough to help him save the earth, but not sufficient enough to stop him from crashing and going into a coma soon afterward. The flaw is inarguably absent on an objective level.

 

[afan]

So basically if one ignores the canon of Green K anything is possible.
Can't really argue there.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Oh my God.

 

[C. Lee]

So basically if one ignores the canon of Green K anything is possible.
Can't really argue there.

Is there a canon of Green K beyond the fact that it weakens him? I have seen many variations of it's effects on him whenever it's used.

 

[Showtime]

There is no real "canon" to Green Kryptonite.

 

[Double Down]

It's always been as strong as the story calls for, just like Superman's hearing ability.

 

[Panthro]

It fell short on numerous points.

1) The character of Superman is a pretty straight forward guy. Singers was unneedfully deceptive and evasive. The only person on Earth who learns WHY he was gone for 5 years is the one who already knew. Except of course if you were keepting to previous movie continutiy, that person was DEAD.

To top it off, Singer turns Superman into a creepy stalker type.

2) There is a fine line between 'homage' and 'retread'. Singer didn't pull of any homage. Homage can be good. Not always. The Barb Wire movie WAS an homage Cassablanca. That fact did not save that movie.

Retreads tend to be bad, but sometimes the familar pays off. Bond films are an example of this.

But a retread of Donner's movie doesn't work without Donner's humor and his eye for detail, such as Clark becoming Superman only in a context where a meek mild reporter might day dream of being heroic. See 'Subtlety' below.
3) Luthor was BORING. Spacey really did the character an injustice. Admittedly I'm spoiled by Clancy Brown's Luthor in JLU. But "I'm so smart I won't even let the audience in on wht I'm thinking!" does not work well in an audiovisual medium.

Besides: Superman 1: Luthor. Superman 2: Zone villains and Luthor. superman 3: Robert Vaughn imitating Gene Hackman's Luthor. Superman 4: Luthor and the Atomic Man.

Superman Returns: Luthor.

ENOUGH LUTHOR! Nolan was smart enough to bring in Ras al Ghul for the first of the new bat films. A villain with a generous history but one unknown to the casual audience.

Brainiac, Mongul or Silver Banshee would have been better adversaires for Returns.

4) Subtlety. Donner had Jor-el's holographic face break down into the face on the shroud of Turin. The Superman as a metaphor for Jesus bit was restricted to that and "I have given them you - my only son'. Singer turns it into the goddamned crucifixion and ressurection.

This is subtle only in comparison with Phillip Jose Farmer (writing as Kilgore Trout)'s line "The Sun came crashing through like a gold brick thrown through a window."!!

5) Plot holes: Superman couldn't coat himself in lead before taking on the Kryptonite? (And show Luthor's intellect a bit by having him prepared for that by launching a missile that hits Superman and shreds the lead just at the point Where Superman might falter and have it fall back to Earth?)

Good points. Very good points.