Why Pope Francis is Times "Person of the Year"

[Tanin]

I'm actually a little shocked he called people who say they are Christian but don't act it Pagans.

 

[Breogan]

I'm actually a little shocked he called people who say they are Christian but don't act it Pagans.

Lol Context?
And who does your translating for you?

Se nel Natale Dio si rivela non come uno che sta in alto e che domina l’universo, ma come Colui che si abbassa: Dio si abbassa, discende sulla terra piccolo e povero, significa che per essere simili a Lui noi non dobbiamo metterci al di sopra degli altri, ma anzi abbassarci, metterci al servizio, farci piccoli con i piccoli e poveri con i pover.
Ma, è una cosa brutta quando si vede un cristiano che non vuole abbassarsi, che non vuole servire, un cristiano che si pavoneggia dappertutto: è brutto, eh? Quello non è cristiano: quello è pagano! Il cristiano serve, si abbassa...

I don't speak Italian, but if "pavoneggia" is anything what it sounds like in Spanish he's talking about humility and christians who don't want to humble themselves, and instead want to strut their wealth around like peacocks. That's not christian, that's pagan.

 

[Tanin]

And that would be.... saying you are a Christian and not acting (being) it....

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I'm not Catholic (or even religious), but I'll say this... Francis is a HUGE improvement over the last Pope Benedict, who was just damn awful. And I even think in time he'll prove better and more fondly regarded than John Paul II (especially if he forces the Church to finally hold all clergy accountable who not only molest kids, but those who move those who do molest to other churchs or in any way sympathizes with them, make excuses for them or have turned a blind eye towards them). This is exactly who the Vatican needed as Pope to rebound from a pretty terrible decade.

 

[Marvolo]

I'm not religious, but I like this pope a lot. He's good for the church and the faith.

 

[KevanG]

He's been getting quite a bit of love from people who aren't religious and people who refuse to have anything to do with it. Just the fact that he's telling people to lay off the LBGT community scores him massive points worldwide.

 

[SentinelMind]

The Pope is doing a great job as a political leader, but as a spiritual leader he unfortunately leaves much to be desired, based on several statements he's made. Pope Francis has seemed to strengthen the divide between Catholicism and Christian faith, moving Catholicism into vehicle towards one-world, ecumenical, universalist system and away from preaching the Christian Gospel.

The Christian Gospel is declaration that those who repent and believe that Jesus Christ came down, died for all the sins of the world, and rose from the dead with all power will be saved.

Assuming these translations are correct (which some religious pundits have criticized) the Pope is moving the Church away from faith-based salvation to a work-based redemption.


The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/201...counter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445



The Pope is certainly a welcoming, affable, and publicly compassionate person. Showing compassion for sick is certainly important teaching of Christ, but it is not a substitute of understanding mankind's degenerate sinful state and need of a savior.

I'm not a Catholic and not surprised by his statements, but even previous popes have not tried to diminish saving power of Christ as much as our current one...and that is simply heretical and not Christian.

Behaving compassionately on earth is good, but what good is it to deceive yourself of spiritual condition, falling into the fleshly illusion of self-righteousness, and not understanding our true relationship towards God?



Romans 4:5
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

 

[hippie_hunter]

Personally, I think that by the time Francis is done being Pope, Christianity is going to be in a more powerful position in the world. We live in an era where the Church is no longer a major political power and is losing influence due to being out of touch with society. Francis seems to want to put the Church back into a position that is in tune with society while going back to the roots of the teachings of Jesus Christ. And personally, I think that under Francis, we're going to see the Catholic Church reunite with the Orthodox Church and maybe even the Anglican Church.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

The Pope is doing a great job as a political leader, but as a spiritual leader he unfortunately leaves much to be desired, based on several statements he's made. Pope Francis has seemed to strengthen the divide between Catholicism and Christian faith, moving Catholicism into vehicle towards one-world, ecumenical, universalist system and away from preaching the Christian Gospel.

The Christian Gospel is declaration that those who repent and believe that Jesus Christ came down, died for all the sins of the world, and rose from the dead with all power will be saved.

Assuming these translations are correct (which some religious pundits have criticized) the Pope is moving the Church away from faith-based salvation to a work-based redemption.


The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/201...counter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445



The Pope is certainly a welcoming, affable, and publicly compassionate person. Showing compassion for sick is certainly important teaching of Christ, but it is not a substitute of understanding mankind's degenerate sinful state and need of a savior.

I'm not a Catholic and not surprised by his statements, but even previous popes have not tried to diminish saving power of Christ as much as our current one...and that is simply heretical and not Christian.

Behaving compassionately on earth is good, but what good is it to deceive yourself of spiritual condition, falling into the fleshly illusion of self-righteousness, and not understanding our true relationship towards God?



Romans 4:5
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Nope.

 

[SentinelMind]

unfortunately for his fans, its true. Being a friendly person is not a substitute for The Gospel.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Damn that Pope with his good works, that speak louder than words.

 

[SentinelMind]

Good works is great..but it doesn't cover all your sins or make you without blemish before God. It's not a substitute for faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Good works is great..but it doesn't cover all your sins or make you without blemish before God. It's not a substitute for faith in Jesus Christ.

Sure as hell beats the last pope, who had plenty of the latter, but did none of the former.

 

[KevanG]

In the end I'm pretty sure that it's the intentions that count. He wants more of a unified world and everyone to be more accepting. Even if not everyone takes it to heart then it still counts if only a few people do. And yes the whole "Road to hell is paved with good intentions" thing could apply, somehow.

 

[SentinelMind]

I guess I agree in material, political terms he is better and refreshing leader,...but if they are preaching same message in salvation then it means nothing. you could argue he's doing worse by making works-based salvation seem more attractive.

 

[Kane52630]

you could argue he's doing worse by making works-based salvation seem more attractive.

 

[Thundercrack85]

To channel my old Christian self, I would much rather see a non-religious man who does good deeds go to heaven, than a religious man who does nothing but talk about them.

Demagogues are a dime a dozen.

And the pope isn't even not religious. You just don't deem him religious enough.

 

[KevanG]

I don't even care if he personally promises salvation to every person who likes what he does. He's encouraging people to not look down upon others because they live differently. He's telling people that even if you don't understand or accept why they live a certain lifestyle that you can tolerate them and not try to shame them into behaving another way. There are limits to that of course but he's mostly saying judge people less and judge yourself more.

 

[SentinelMind]

Religion doesn't get you into heaven....faith in Christ does.

Matthew 7
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[KevanG]

Okay and that's great news. I'm just talking about the Pope encouraging people to work together and not be jerks all the time.

 

[Thundercrack85]

And that's why I became a heretic.

 

[SentinelMind]

To channel my old Christian self, I would much rather see a non-religious man who does good deeds go to heaven, than a religious man who does nothing but talk about them.

With all due respect, if this is what you believe in your old days, assuming you mean religious = Christian here ..then you weren't Christian. Why do you want those who don't appreciate Christ to spend eternity in paradise with Him?

 

[Thundercrack85]

With all due respect, if this is what you believe in your old days, assuming you mean religious = Christian here ..then you weren't Christian. Why do you want those who don't appreciate Christ to spend eternity in paradise with Him?

With all due respect, you are hardly an authority on what is Christian.

A minute ago, you were questioning the freaking pope's faith.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Religion doesn't get you into heaven....faith in Christ does.

According to YOU. Many Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus would disagree with that narrow ruling.

It's so silly how you can be a terrible human-being, but repent at the last minute and then go to Heaven as long as you believe in J.C. But if you live a great, selfless life, always doing things for others with no wish for any reward in return.... but don't believe in Jesus, you'll get damned to Hell.

This doesn't strike you as strange? Or wrong?

 

[SentinelMind]

With all due respect, you are hardly an authority on what is Christian.

A minute ago, you were questioning the freaking pope's faith.

Catholics believe in many things not presented in the Holy Bible. Worshipping of Mary. Believing priests can forgive sins..I must go through a priest or Pope to talk to Jesus? The Pope is infallible? Not in the Holy Bible.

The Bible states you can speak to Jesus directly..only Jesus mediates between us and God the Father.

Although Catholics mention and revere Jesus, the Catholics have tendency to downplay the Gospel in favor of this self-righteousness. The Gospel is simple. Believe Jesus Christ paid price for all sin of mankind with His death and He is only mediator between God and mankind. Accept that and you are saved. The faith is what saves you...not the works. I already quoted several verses above. It's the relationship with Christ that saves...not the works. The works is good..but its purpose is to bring others to Christ...because this present world is only temporary anyway. Put your faith in what is everlasting, Christ who is the Word...not in your few years of good works interrupted by moments of sinful living.

I have heard arguments the Pope is being misquoted, mistranslated...but it does appear he is trying to imply that works without Christ can get you in and that he is promoting sense of self-righteousness, deciding for oneself what is right. None of this surprises me, but it is still dangerous doctrine that is not Biblical.