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The Avengers Why the Avengers will be a Game Changer

If the JLA movie ever gets made, I hope to god people don't jump on a "omg copycatting Avengers" bandwagon. JLA was *supposed* to be made long before Marvel ever dreamed up the Avengers movie.

I just don't want them to rush it and make yet another Green Lantern bomb. Green Lantern bombed because instead of taking inspiration of Green Lantern's rich mythology - way richer than Iron Man's - it's just really trying to copycatting Iron Man and Marvel's thunder.

What Warner and DC need to do first and foremost is to have a plan and invest the **** out of it, put their money on it and make it brilliant. I honestly already want a reboot of Green Lantern, because it's that good of a mythology wasted on a heartless and mindless flick. Start with MoS, than Batman reboot, Followed by Wonder Woman, Flash and yes, Aquaman. Throw an oddball with Animal Man, and then give us a Green Lantern reboot followed by a Justice League movie. That's how I'd like for this to play out.
 
If the JLA movie ever gets made, I hope to god people don't jump on a "omg copycatting Avengers" bandwagon.

The WB CEO Jeff Robinov wants a Batman & Superman film, badly. There are scripts for both Batman vs. Superman and JL lying around that WB can use and fast-track if they want to play catch-up.
 
Is it a game changer? I haven't a clue, as only time will tell.

I will say this, this is the ONLY movie I've ever seen more than once in theater. I grew up reading comics and a huge fan of all the recent Marvel movies. As much as I wanted to see IM, IM2,Thor & Cap TFA in theater a 2nd time, I never made an effort to do so. I have a nice home theater room and was always able to talk myself into just waiting until it released on bluray.
This movie just blew me away. I was a tad too young to remember the initial Star Wars craziness, but have heard the Avengers comparisons from many adults. I actually got choked up at the group circle shot. I can count the number of times on one hand a movie made me do that.

I'm taking my son to see it this weekend. This will be my 3rd viewing! I'm so happy my little boy can experience his "Star Wars". :D

Awesome!
 
I just don't want them to rush it and make yet another Green Lantern bomb. Green Lantern bombed because instead of taking inspiration of Green Lantern's rich mythology - way richer than Iron Man's - it's just really trying to copycatting Iron Man and Marvel's thunder.

What Warner and DC need to do first and foremost is to have a plan and invest the **** out of it, put their money on it and make it brilliant. I honestly already want a reboot of Green Lantern, because it's that good of a mythology wasted on a heartless and mindless flick. Start with MoS, than Batman reboot, Followed by Wonder Woman, Flash and yes, Aquaman. Throw an oddball with Animal Man, and then give us a Green Lantern reboot followed by a Justice League movie. That's how I'd like for this to play out.

No Hawkman or Martian Manhunter....? :csad: (Seriously, Hawkman was in development a few years ago, but has long since vanished from radar.)

But what you're describing here sounds easily like it's a decade or more away before you'd see JLA, even if they start working on it today. I don't want to rush a JLA movie, either, but timing is actually becoming important here....wait *too* long and you're likely to lose your audience who gets tired of your procrastination.

The WB CEO Jeff Robinov wants a Batman & Superman film, badly. There are scripts for both Batman vs. Superman and JL lying around that WB can use and fast-track if they want to play catch-up.

A World's Finest or Bats vs. Supes would probably be the ideal next step after TDKR and MOS....the team-up/fight establishes the shared universe that everybody (who isn't named Nolan) is looking for, without going all-in on JLA just yet.
 
If the JLA movie ever gets made, I hope to god people don't jump on a "omg copycatting Avengers" bandwagon. JLA was *supposed* to be made long before Marvel ever dreamed up the Avengers movie.

But that's a small price to pay (which will only really be from the general audience since most comic fans will know better) in order to get a JLA movie. Which would you rather have? The audience assuming JLA is a copycat but getting a potentially great JLA movie like the Avengers, or no JLA movie and everyone saying "oh well, at least DC/WB didn't go and copy Marvel because of the success of the Avengers"?
 
If the JLA movie ever gets made, I hope to god people don't jump on a "omg copycatting Avengers" bandwagon. JLA was *supposed* to be made long before Marvel ever dreamed up the Avengers movie.

no one claimed copy catting when all these superhero movies started being made
 
no one claimed copy catting when all these superhero movies started being made

Yeah, and besides that happens all the time anyway with other films, but people still go to see them and enjoy them. I don't really care if the general audience think JLA is a rip off of the Avengers. If they do a bit of digging, they'll see it isn't but has its basis in comics. I'm sure lots of people don't even realise the Avengers is an actual book in comics but think that Marvel just decided to have some of their main heroes team up because they thought it would be a neat idea and a huge cash cow.
 
No Hawkman or Martian Manhunter....? :csad: (Seriously, Hawkman was in development a few years ago, but has long since vanished from radar.)

But what you're describing here sounds easily like it's a decade or more away before you'd see JLA, even if they start working on it today. I don't want to rush a JLA movie, either, but timing is actually becoming important here....wait *too* long and you're likely to lose your audience who gets tired of your procrastination.



A World's Finest or Bats vs. Supes would probably be the ideal next step after TDKR and MOS....the team-up/fight establishes the shared universe that everybody (who isn't named Nolan) is looking for, without going all-in on JLA just yet.

I just don't want them to make something that it'd bomb. People need to care about these characters first, and I just don't see it with good eyes going for Justice League now or even World's Finest withtout going through some years prepping for this. That's the reason why The Avengers paid off so well, not just because there are all these heroes together fighting alongside in the big screen.

I say that they could do the same Marvel did with the DC Movieverse in 4 years, counting after the release of MoS. They would need to rush getting the projects going, but it could work if they started pre-production for Flash this year or at least until the beginning of 2013. I just don't see Justice League or even World's Finest working without a proper build up.

I honestly hope that Warner THINK before they act, I hope they have someone with a PLAN, not just aiming for - hey let's do a Justice League movie, heroes working together is a hot thing right now.
 
I just don't want them to make something that it'd bomb. People need to care about these characters first, and I just don't see it with good eyes going for Justice League now or even World's Finest withtout going through some years prepping for this. That's the reason why The Avengers paid off so well, not just because there are all these heroes together fighting alongside in the big screen.

I say that they could do the same Marvel did with the DC Movieverse in 4 years, counting after the release of MoS. They would need to rush getting the projects going, but it could work if they started pre-production for Flash this year or at least until the beginning of 2013. I just don't see Justice League or even World's Finest working without a proper build up.

I honestly hope that Warner THINK before they act, I hope they have someone with a PLAN, not just aiming for - hey let's do a Justice League movie, heroes working together is a hot thing right now.


If they're going to follow the marvel model-with solo movies first-they need to CAREFULLY pick the characters. And not basing it on what's popular currently in the DC comic world.

Batman will have a clean slate, so hopefully they'll abandon Nolan's blueprint for that character, and just have Batman being Batman...not Robocop with cape and cowl, so if there is a JLA movie, he'll be easier to integrate.

Superman is a tricky one. While i'm fairly confident that the Snyder version will work, there has been rumor going on that they've made this only because of the ongoing legal battle. So this may be a one-off.

Wonder Woman...they NEED to do this. if only to prevent Marvel from stealing their thunder should they decide to make a Ms Marvel movie one day...or other Marvel heroines.
 
I just don't want them to make something that it'd bomb. People need to care about these characters first, and I just don't see it with good eyes going for Justice League now or even World's Finest withtout going through some years prepping for this. That's the reason why The Avengers paid off so well, not just because there are all these heroes together fighting alongside in the big screen.

I say that they could do the same Marvel did with the DC Movieverse in 4 years, counting after the release of MoS. They would need to rush getting the projects going, but it could work if they started pre-production for Flash this year or at least until the beginning of 2013. I just don't see Justice League or even World's Finest working without a proper build up.

I honestly hope that Warner THINK before they act, I hope they have someone with a PLAN, not just aiming for - hey let's do a Justice League movie, heroes working together is a hot thing right now.

Well the public are familiar enough with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, and they might know a Green Lantern movie came out too. If the focus is on the main three (which it probably would be), then the public would still be eager to see those three on screen together, and might come to like the others in the JLA too.
 
Well the public are familiar enough with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, and they might know a Green Lantern movie came out too. If the focus is on the main three (which it probably would be), then the public would still be eager to see those three on screen together, and might come to like the others in the JLA too.

People oftenly mistake being "familiar" with a character with CARING about them. I'm familiar with Superman, I ****ing LOVE Green Lantern, but that didn't stop those movies from being flops, didn't?

Again, I think public demand should ask and hope for Warner having a CAREFUL and well thought out PLAN before going for the Justice League movie. Martian Manhunter, Hawman, Black Canary and other second string character could be brought with the movie, but not the main acts. The main acts should get to have a solo movie first, just like Marvel did with their characters.

Why? It's not enough to be familiar with. You need to care about them. Jesus, Odin, Zeus and Budda are familiar gods, but should we make a movie about them just because people are familiar with them?

The lesson of The Avengers isn't just "superhero group team are hot, let's crowd the market with them", it's build up for a big crossover between a movieverse is not only entertaining, but profitable as hell.

I don't want them to rush stuff and end up giving superhero movies a bad name, just like Green Lantern did.
 
If the JLA movie ever gets made, I hope to god people don't jump on a "omg copycatting Avengers" bandwagon. JLA was *supposed* to be made long before Marvel ever dreamed up the Avengers movie.

I agree that people shouldn't really say that JLA copied The Avengers (if it is ever made), but you cannot fault people from making that assumption because there was zero movement from WB on a JLA movie, and if it was made after The Avengers made history naturally people will put two and two together.

I disgree that the reason people shouldn't make this assumption is because JLA was supposed to be made, because to me the movie either is made or isn't, and the fact is that JLA was never greenlighted and released as a real movie. Therefore, The Avengers is the first of its kind, and from here on out any superhero team-up movie will inevitably be compared with it.
 
I just don't want them to rush it and make yet another Green Lantern bomb. Green Lantern bombed because instead of taking inspiration of Green Lantern's rich mythology - way richer than Iron Man's - it's just really trying to copycatting Iron Man and Marvel's thunder.

What Warner and DC need to do first and foremost is to have a plan and invest the **** out of it, put their money on it and make it brilliant. I honestly already want a reboot of Green Lantern, because it's that good of a mythology wasted on a heartless and mindless flick. Start with MoS, than Batman reboot, Followed by Wonder Woman, Flash and yes, Aquaman. Throw an oddball with Animal Man, and then give us a Green Lantern reboot followed by a Justice League movie. That's how I'd like for this to play out.

How I expect it to play out.

MOS. A second major DC origin film (should be Wonder Woman, may end up being Flash because GL scared them off mythology and Hollywood doesn't think women can lead tentpole action movies). Then MOS2 and a Batman reboot that I'm already betting is going to be loosely based off Arkham Asylum (Batman meets Die Hard), as opposed to another origin film.

Then Justice League with Flash or Wonder Woman (which ever one didn't get made), Henry Cavill, the new Batman and a rebooted GL (a la Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk).

That or after MOS, they go straight into JL to strike while the iron is hot off of Avengers in the next few years.
 
How I expect it to play out.

MOS. A second major DC origin film (should be Wonder Woman, may end up being Flash because GL scared them off mythology and Hollywood doesn't think women can lead tentpole action movies). Then MOS2 and a Batman reboot that I'm already betting is going to be loosely based off Arkham Asylum (Batman meets Die Hard), as opposed to another origin film.

Then Justice League with Flash or Wonder Woman (which ever one didn't get made), Henry Cavill, the new Batman and a rebooted GL (a la Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk).

That or after MOS, they go straight into JL to strike while the iron is hot off of Avengers in the next few years.

To make your plan happen, WB will need to have at least one superhero movie out a year, but aside from MOS there isn't any plan for another DC superhero movie that we know of, and even that SuperMax movie has seemingly cancelled. The only sure thing is that WB will reboot Batman a few years after TDKR concluded Nolan's run.
 
I'll just say *I hope* it's a game-changer. Whedon has done a fantastic job at making the fantastic look great *and* generate the GDP of a small European nation. He took the old myth about "what works in the comics won't work in the movies" and wiped his ass with it.

But DACrowe posted a nice list of "game changer" superhero movies that were genuine watersheds in their approach to the genre, yet I honestly didn't see a whole lot of change going on in the game at all.

Let's be honest: what did all those great movies lead to? Did studios and directors *really* try to re-create the winning formulas for those films, or did they just go back to their usual bad habits and churn out.....junk? Donner's Superman series led to.....nothing. It would take a whole decade before anyone even *tried* to franchise another major comic book character. Talking, of course, about Burton's Batman, which led to.....a forgotten Flash TV series? Steel? Spawn? Almost a full decade after Bats 89, Marvel tries their first real film character with Blade, and while successful, that success had little to do with comic books (even a ton of *Marvel* fans had never heard of the character) and MUCH more to do with vampires being the "in" thing at the time. So X-Men and Spider-Man were the first *real* Marvel successes, and that led to....Daredevil, Elektra, Ang-Hulk, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Catwoman, and the Fantastic Four. And even the critical acclaim and box office mastery of TDK led only to Watchmen, Green Lantern, and a failed Wonder Woman TV pilot.

I think the main thing is that Avengers has set a new standard *within* Marvel Studios ---- not only in firmly establishing the MCU, but also creating a new template for future films at the studio. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that other studios and directors are going to learn anything from this....history has proven time and again that the "game changers" within the CBM genre usually lead only to a boatload of parodies, non-mainstream titles, and a bunch of Marvel and DC junk by guys who just don't "get it" at all.

I'd agree there's been a lot of crap, but these are Hollywood films made to make lots of money. Studio execs and hack writers/directors are bound to make a lot of crap copying the better stuff. But I do see an evolution in the genre.

Superman set out a template of how to do a superhero movie as an A-list picture that while humorous and kid-friendly was not the B-movie camp entertainment many believed (for decades) comics were only good for like the Adam West Batman TV series. Superman is why the Tim Burton film was finally made. That movie would have come out in 1983 and would have been a lot like Donner's template if it didn't hit speed bumps (it would have been a campier, more kid-friendly version of Batman Begins). It's template influenced Spider-Man, Batman Begins, Iron Man and a bunch of lame imitators I won't name all of (ex. Daredevil and Green Lantern).

Batman (1989) showed that superhero movies can appeal to adults and not just be family films. It was dark, relatively serious and visionary enough to reshape Batman in the popular imagination from Adam West to a "dark knight." The series died, because Warners tried to walk it back to Adam West after Burton left the franchise. It's more serious minded approach I think affected later films like X-Men.

X-Men showed that less famous superheroes can be done seriously in Hollywood, including Marvel's. It gave Marvel the ability to sell a number of other properties (Spider-Man was already getting made, but Daredevil and Hulk were sold because of this, I believe). Sam Raimi's Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2, influenced by Donner, reinvented the superhero formula and basically made the genre mainstream. It's why DD got a costume in his movie as opposed to a leather jacket, why FF got their terrible movies, but also why WB rebooted Batman with an origin film that followed a very similar formula to Spider-Man. Raimi's films allowed Marvel to sell enough property and establish enough of a brand to make their own films. Enter Iron Man, which also followed Raimi's retooling of Donner's formula. And IM1's success began the MCU we have today. Also, until only a few years ago Raimi set a benchmark with Spider-Man 2 that truly gifted directors have matched or surpassed like Nolan and Whedon.

The Dark Knight proved that superhero movies can be intellectually and thematically ambitious. It is the first superhero movie to win an Oscar in one of the major categories (Best Supporting Actor), changed the nominating process of the Academy Awards, and deconstructed the concept of superheroes which has led to more ambitious superhero movies like Watchmen and Kick-Ass. I'd even say, Whedon was allowed to scratch the surface of ethics in his movie (like Loki chastising all the Avengers as hypocrites to BW) that Marvel Studios may have been against. I expect to see more ambitious films in the genre even after TDKR has left theaters.

And now The Avengers shows you can embrace the complete fantastical elements of comic books without apology or self-defacing humor and make it work marvelously. Also, there is the obvious crossover angle. I think both will influence future endeavors in the genre. Even if it spawns a few Green Lanterns or Catwomans[/] as well.
 

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