Why there will never be a better Batman than Keaton

[Chris Wallace]

Without crime to fight, there would be no need for him to dress up as batman, same goes for almost all superhero's. Without villains, batman jjust becomes a weird S&M freak....

Villains are important, yes, but never put them above the hero. The previous filsm always put the focus on them, never on Batman where it should have been. And I disagree that his motivations, etc. should have remained a mystery. As someone else said, we saw the catalyst of his crusade but nothing that drove him to tha particular path he took. I'd rather the Joker's past be kept a mystery than Batman's.

 

[Cyrusbales]

The way in which B89 And BReturns were filmed, put us in Batman's ideal place, rather than a third person, we saw what batman was focused on, ie: The villains, it is more intelligent form of filmmaking, as it also adds a social critique of the media, and acknowlegdes the format upon which the story is told, ie: film.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

The way in which B89 And BReturns were filmed, put us in Batman's ideal place

I disagree. The first film is definetly not from Batman's POV. The opening with the thugs on the rooftop is more with them than it is with Batman. When he appears in Axis, we're with Gordon and co, "Who is this guy?"

The audience is with Vicki Vale, she's the character you're supposed to relate to in the midst of the craziness. She's like Dorothy.

Batman Returns, I'd argue, is more from Selina and the Penguin's view than Batman's.

 

[Cyrusbales]

I disagree. The first film is definetly not from Batman's POV. The opening with the thugs on the rooftop is more with them than it is with Batman. When he appears in Axis, we're with Gordon and co, "Who is this guy?"

The audience is with Vicki Vale, she's the character you're supposed to relate to in the midst of the craziness. She's like Dorothy.

Batman Returns, I'd argue, is more from Selina and the Penguin's view than Batman's.

I said IDEAL view, as in what he wishes himself to be veiwed, It is his mysterious ideal of himself I was referring to....

 

[El Payaso]

 

[Cyrusbales]

what's the thumbs up to? The thread in general or my little post?

 

[Chris Wallace]

The way in which B89 And BReturns were filmed, put us in Batman's ideal place, rather than a third person, we saw what batman was focused on, ie: The villains, it is more intelligent form of filmmaking, as it also adds a social critique of the media, and acknowlegdes the format upon which the story is told, ie: film.

But again, the problem is we never got to know him. To say the movies focused on the villains b/c HE was focused on them doesn't make much sense. Why is he focused on them? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Especially when he had a hand in creating many of them. Look, a kid who watched his parents die for no reason is gonna be scarred for life, no doubt. But there are numerous things he could have done. He could've become a cop, a lawyer, a prosecutor, he could've run for office. He could've become a forensic scientist. He could've become a serial killer. He could've channeled his pain into poetry or crime novels. The events that made him choose costumed crimefighter, & take up that particular motif, and operate out of a musty, bat-infested cave, are crucial to his character & yet for 4 movies they went pretty much ignored.

 

[Cyrusbales]

But again, the problem is we never got to know him. To say the movies focused on the villains b/c HE was focused on them doesn't make much sense. Why is he focused on them? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Especially when he had a hand in creating many of them. Look, a kid who watched his parents die for no reason is gonna be scarred for life, no doubt. But there are numerous things he could have done. He could've become a cop, a lawyer, a prosecutor, he could've run for office. He could've become a forensic scientist. He could've become a serial killer. He could've channeled his pain into poetry or crime novels. The events that made him choose costumed crimefighter, & take up that particular motif, and operate out of a musty, bat-infested cave, are crucial to his character & yet for 4 movies they went pretty much ignored.

I like the way it makes batman seem very on edge, we are allowed to see what a sick serial killer does, but not what batman does, that let's us imagine his torment, which all filmmakers will tell you, makes a lasting impression, as the audience fillls it in exactly how they want, without detracting from the film etc, it's a common shock/involvement tactic. And of course batman the character is gonna be focused on villains, it's what he does!

 

[Chris Wallace]

We see what a serial killer does. We don't see why. We see what Batman does. We don't see why. Batman is not V. V's complete origin was never told, & much of his past is kept a mystery. Batman's story has been told numerous times but Burton & Schumacher felt it wasn't necessary to include the how & why of it. They gave us who, what & where, & pretty much left it at that.
I'm not saying the '89 movie was bad. (Didn't care for Returns) But I was left wanting more of the Dark Knight himself. I like getting to know Batman the way we've gotten an intimate look at every other costumed hero to hit the big screen in the last 17 years. It's a disservice to the character to do otherwise.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Then again, everyone knows about batman's past already, I thought it was a different and more intelligent angle, I prefered Burton's approach to Nolan's.

 

[Chris Wallace]

No, everybody DOESN'T know Batman's past! How would they have learned it? From the Adam West show? That didn't cover it. The Superfriends? Nope. It was never revealed or even touched upon. No, everybody knows Superman's past. Unless you are an avid reader of Batman comics, you probably have no clue why he does what he does. It's not common knowledge.

 

[SurfDUI]

I like getting to know Batman the way we've gotten an intimate look at every other costumed hero to hit the big screen in the last 17 years. It's a disservice to the character to do otherwise.

Well if this argument is delegated to us that know him best, Hey I think the smell from that leather suit that NEVER comes off anymore is indicitive of the current Batman's tempo. HE IS NEVER Bruce anymore. I was just at local show and picked up a couple of '80's issues, and Bruce used to solve mysteries and do detective work outside of the suit.

The comics, the animated JLU-Bats is bats now, he is moving further away from well, a 'normal' person and more towards the people he sends to Arkham. The cloning thing, he's just raw now .

 

[El Payaso]

No, everybody DOESN'T know Batman's past! How would they have learned it? From the Adam West show? That didn't cover it. The Superfriends? Nope. It was never revealed or even touched upon. No, everybody knows Superman's past. Unless you are an avid reader of Batman comics, you probably have no clue why he does what he does. It's not common knowledge.

The interesting point in what you say is how Batman has been successful throughout all these years without people having a full knowledge about his origin, that is, with people not caring for or not needing a fully detailed origin.

 

[Chris Wallace]

1-much of that has to do with the Adam West show.
2-much of it also has to do with the all-star casts his movies had, back when star power meant something.

 

[El Payaso]

Oh, yes.


Still.

 

[Chris Wallace]

In order to distance the current projects from what was done before, it was imperative that the franchise be taken in a new direction. Shifting the focus to the how & why of Batman was a smart move, & crucial.

 

[SurfDUI]

I disagree. The first film is definetly not from Batman's POV. The opening with the thugs on the rooftop is more with them than it is with Batman. When he appears in Axis, we're with Gordon and co, "Who is this guy?"

The audience is with Vicki Vale, she's the character like Dorothy.

Batman Returns, I'd argue, is more from Selina and the Penguin's view than Batman's.

Yep, You know when a Judge has inside knowledge of a case and has to purcure him from it. YOU ALL KNOW as comic fans, these characters are closer to our hearts than most people. And in our narrow view, we want them to attain the lofty position w/in us for everyone else.

TRUTH is comic's are still kid's fare to most people. Hell, most people would be shocked to know that your average book is $2.95-$3.99I know better, WE know better, but since most feel that way-the live action renderings WILL NEVER live up to our standards. So we should just take a step back and enjoy I think. As far as the Bat renderings, He's such a rich character that each film can adopt a different POV and still stay true to the continuity.

As a single cat, I meet women all the time and the last thing that comes up is Civil War. They just wouldn't understand. Then too I can't feel anything for Grey's Anatomy either too me it's a soap.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Well I am not so single. I got my wife hooked on this guy
<------------ a while back & that's about the only comic she really reads, apart from Ghost Rider.
She gets it, better than most. Better than any woman I've ever dated. She thinks the Civil War situation is insane, that Peter's been really stupid for following Tony & that Tony is just (read my sig.)

 

[ab38416]

edit

 

[Bat Attack]

I'll say it again, Keaton will always be Batman in my mind. So to me he is the best.

 

[SelinaAndBruce]

I never felt in the Burton films I never got to know Batman. I know people say that a lot but I never felt like that.

 

[bcgvh]

Keaton was awesome. I think he had the perfect facial features and voice for Batman, but yeah he was mainly too short and skinny. But I think Bale is the best so far. Keaton was great though.

 

[CFE]

I'd have to agree about Kevin Conroy being the best Batman.

The author of this thread stated that Keaton could only rely on his performance rather than his physicality to pull off being Batman.

Conroy had to do the same thing, but in an even more literal sense because he was never "physically" on screen in a costume.

Add that to the fact that Keaton held the mantle from 89 to 92 until Conroy took over from 92 - Now.

No actor's put more man hours into portraying Batman than Conroy (Maybe no actor ever will)...and no one's done it better. The man only had his voice as a tool to work with.

And with only his voice and his talent, Conroy convinced 14 years worth of Bat-Fans that he was our beloved hero.

Conroy = Batman.

CFE

 

[Damiean Dark]

I dont really count Conroy when i list the greatest batman its a far different and harder task to act out a scene on camara then to sit in a booth and read lines in a booth the voice actor can do things that would look ridiculous on camara.

 

[CFE]

I dont really count Conroy when i list the greatest batman its a far different and harder task to act out a scene on camara then to sit in a booth and read lines in a booth the voice actor can do things that would look ridiculous on camara.

Really? I'd assume VO work would be harder because you have nothing to go off of except your own imagination.

Keaton had to be in a costume and on the set of Gotham City to try and convince fans he was Batman.

Conroy just had to "sit in a booth" to do the exact same thing; and arguably better than Keaton.

CFE