Why there will never be a better Batman than Keaton

[Procneus]

Jack Nickelson (sp??) made the first batman movie great, his evil eyes and face and sense of humor just made the movie amazing. Michael Keaton was very good, but I think Val Kilmer has been the best so far. However, I do have high hopes for Christian Bayle....

 

[P. Cushing]

I do have high hopes for Christian Bayle....

Personally, I doubt he'll be a patch on Christian Bale.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I don't post here often because of these petty debates, but I once again feel compelled to put in my two cents...

The fact is that most all fans are jaded. So concerned with accuracy that they can't see something good unless it bit them in the ass.

B89 was an excellent film. Begins will be an excellent film. The real difference is that Begins will be more accurate. While B89 wasn't. But the alterations to the source material in B89 weren't that obtrusive. But, that's still all everyone needs to dump on the Burton films.

Christian Bale looks like Batman. Michael Keaton did not, out of the costume. However, Michael Keaton delivered one of the best performances of his career. And nailed the Batman character. If you can look at him without a jaded opinion, you'll see that his Bruce Wayne was excellent. Although not totally accurate. But really, he cannot be blamed. Keaton played the Wayne Burton wanted him to play. So don't dump on Keaton for a Bruce Wayne that isn't accurate enough to please you.

I, for one, loved Keaton's subtle performance as Wayne. But I digress.

There's always people out there that love to *****. Mark my words; the day Begins comes out, there will be a group of people here *****ing about it. The first inaccuracy to hit the screen will make all of them run wild. They'll catagorize Begins as ****, worse than the other films, or call them all collective ****. And I look forward to that day, because half of ther people here will probably eat their words.

 

[WhiteRat]

Kilmer was good-even if he had precious little to work with. I have every reason to believe that Bale will be great. But no one will ever surpass Keaton for one simple reason: He had to rely totally on his performance.
Think about it. He was completely physically wrong for the part. Wrong height. Wrong build. Wrong hair. He didn't have the "pretty boy Wayne' features. But he played the role so well that WE DIDN'T CARE. When he was onscreen in that ridiculous, confining rubber costume, we believed he was Batman. That's what sets him apart from all other actors in all comic book movies. We nitpick to death everything from muscle tone to eye color. But the complaints we get about Keaton are few & far between-not b/c we don't see the flaws. We just don't care.

Although I disagree with what your saying you do make some good points here.Keaton gave a good performance as Batman but people could not take him serious in that role because when he got out of the Batman costume it made you wonder how he went from looking strong and muscular in that bat outfit to looking fat and out of shape as Bruce Wayne. Because of that ,people could not take Keaton serious in the role which is why the franchise is being started all over again.Im just thankful that the director of the new Batman movie cares about what the fans feel unlike Burton did and was concerned enough to make the best casting choice possible in Bale-someone who DOES physically fit the role.Burton only cast Keaton because he was friends with him,he did not care about making the best casting choice possible.

 

[The Guard]

Fat and out of shape? You see him with his shirt off in one scene, and he's got pretty decent definition. When did being toned and lean become fat and out of shape.

 

[DACrowe]

I think Keaton probably will have given the best perfomrance if he could play Batman with so many disadvantages and still blow everyone away. But who will be the better Batman? Only time will tell.

 

[WhiteRat]

Fat and out of shape? You see him with his shirt off in one scene, and he's got pretty decent definition. When did being toned and lean become fat and out of shape.

The one scene you are referring to was when he had his shirt off and he was up early in the morning on that machine and you can hardly tell if he looks toned and lean in that scene since you cant tell because of the fact that he is so far away from the camera you dont even get a very good view of his body from such a far distance. As Chris Wallace said so well in his post.He had the wrong look and wrong build which angered so many Batman fans.Also Keaton did not blow everybody away as a couple people are suggesting here.Of the 3 People that have played him so far,that honor would go to Val Kilmer.Give him a serious script to work with without corny lines and there would be no question about that like there is now since he didnt have a serious script to work with.

 

[Bruce_Wayne29]

Any point you were trying to made lost us as soon as you said fat and out of shape. Anyone who has seen Keaton knows he's anything BUT fat. As far as being out of shape, how can anyone who trained months with martial arts/kickboxing teachers for both films (who have stated they never had a fastest learning student than Keaton) can be out of shape ? If you want to say he wasn't muscular enough I would buy that, even because that wasn't asked of him, but fat and out of shape it's a ridiculous comment...

 

[Guason]

Just compare any photo of Keaton in suit with a Kilmer one.
It just doens´t even compare, just look at the eyes.
Keaton was also given a few corny lines and he delivered them perfectly.

 

[BrlntDsgse]

Why does everyone keep saying Burton's Batman was a "re-imagining" of the character? Despite Keaton's physique, he was the same character. Parents murdered in front of my as a child, devotes life to fighting crime dressed up as a bat. Batman had seen plenty of dark periods in the comics before the movies, so let's cut the crap about Burton coming up with all that.

Yeah, Keaton was the same character. I sure LOVE all those issues of Batman I own where he murders criminals in cold blood left and right, LOL. You fanatics need to get over it and just admit that Keaton,Burton, and the whole of B89 are not as great as your "rose-tinted" glasses make them seem. I will admit that if forced to choose it was the best out of that series of Batman films, but to me that's just like saying if I had to choose I'd rather drink piss than eat crap.

 

[The Guard]

Any point you were trying to made lost us as soon as you said fat and out of shape. Anyone who has seen Keaton he's anything BUT fat. As far as being out of shape, how can anyone who trained months with martial arts/kickboxing teachers for both films (who have stated they never had a fastest learning student than Keaton) can be out of shape ? If you want to say he wasn't muscular enough I would buy that, even because that wasn't asked of him, but fat and out of shape it's a ridiculous comment...

Exactly.

Yeah, Keaton was the same character. I sure LOVE all those issues of Batman I own where he murders criminals in cold blood left and right, LOL. You fanatics need to get over it and just admit that Keaton,Burton, and the whole of B89 are not as great as your "rose-tinted" glasses make them seem. I will admit that if forced to choose it was the best out of that series of Batman films, but to me that's just like saying if I had to choose I'd rather drink piss than eat crap.

No, Keaton wasn't the Batman of the comics all the way. That was kind of the point of the movies. They were adaptions, and Burton did something new with Batman. He made him an everyman. But I'll play your game. What aspects of Batman, besides the obvious change in size and appearance, did Michael Keaton's Batman NOT display in BATMAN?

 

[WhiteRat]

Any point you were trying to made lost us as soon as you said fat and out of shape. Anyone who has seen Keaton knows he's anything BUT fat. As far as being out of shape, how can anyone who trained months with martial arts/kickboxing teachers for both films (who have stated they never had a fastest learning student than Keaton) can be out of shape ? If you want to say he wasn't muscular enough I would buy that, even because that wasn't asked of him, but fat and out of shape it's a ridiculous comment...

Okay maybe fat was a little too strong a word since he is nothing like John Goodman who screams fat but its clear in the movie that he has a pudgy gut under his shirt and is out of shape and does not have anywhere the muscular build for Bruce Wayne that an actor should have like Kilmer at least had.Thats why Kilmer was able to take his shirt off in a CLOSEUP view because he had the muscular build for the role and thats why Keaton did not take the shirt off for the closeup since he didnt have the build and sorry,Keaton did not have any corny lines in his two movies since the scripts were more serious.

 

[Detective Flass]

There already is a better Batman than Keaton: Kevin Conroy.

I'd have Keaton over Conroy anyday.

 

[Guason]

All actors who played the Character in the Burton movies were better than the actors who voiced them in the animated series except Gordon and the Joker.

 

[The Guard]

Okay maybe fat was a little too strong a word since he is nothing like John Goodman who screams fat but its clear in the movie that he has a pudgy gut under his shirt

Really? What scene was that in? Pudgy is too strong a word, too.

and is out of shape

When did not having huge, bulging muscles become "out of shape"?

and does not have anywhere the muscular build for Bruce Wayne that an actor should have like Kilmer at least had.

Here's the thing. His Bruce Wayne wasn't supposed to be a muscleman. He was an everyman. That was the whole point of the suit.

Thats why Kilmer was able to take his shirt off in a CLOSEUP view because he had the muscular build for the role and thats why Keaton did not take the shirt off for the closeup since he didnt have the build and sorry,Keaton did not have any corny lines in his two movies since the scripts were more serious.

Keaton had some corny lines. He delivered them perfectly, and almost made them lose their corniness and camp factor. And maybe Keaton didn't take his shirt off because there was no need for a pointless shirtless scene. And perhaps, just perhaps, Kilmer took his shirt off because there was a reason for it written into the script, not just to show off his hot bod. And btw, didn't Keaton have his shirt off in BATMAN RETURNS when he was recovering from his bout with Catwoman in a scene similar to Kilmer's in FOREVER?

 

[Guason]

Keaton had some corny lines. He delivered them perfectly, and almost made them lose their corniness and camp factor. And maybe Keaton didn't take his shirt off because there was no need for a pointless shirtless scene. And perhaps, just perhaps, Kilmer took his shirt off because there was a reason for it written into the script, not just to show off his hot bod. And btw, didn't Keaton have his shirt off in BATMAN RETURNS when he was recovering from his bout with Catwoman in a scene similar to Kilmer's in FOREVER?[/QUOTE]
Just like Michelle Pfeiffer who made such a simple phrase who any of us could say any day sound terrific. (Because he´s Batman you morron!)

 

[WhiteRat]

Really? What scene was that in? Pudgy is too strong a word, too.



When did not having huge, bulging muscles become "out of shape"?



Here's the thing. His Bruce Wayne wasn't supposed to be a muscleman. He was an everyman. That was the whole point of the suit.



Keaton had some corny lines. He delivered them perfectly, and almost made them lose their corniness and camp factor. And maybe Keaton didn't take his shirt off because there was no need for a pointless shirtless scene. And perhaps, just perhaps, Kilmer took his shirt off because there was a reason for it written into the script, not just to show off his hot bod. And btw, didn't Keaton have his shirt off in BATMAN RETURNS when he was recovering from his bout with Catwoman in a scene similar to Kilmer's in FOREVER?

Okay this is going to be my last post to you because you are clearly delusional-sorry but you deserve that remark with your childish name calling you displayed on Celya's thread. But you are seeing things that are clearly not there by coming up with statements that are false.Huge bulging muscles? you are hilarious,you crack me up.Again you are delusional and seeing things that are clearly not there because there would not be threads being made by people like chris wallace and celya on that other thread pointing out how he had the wrong physical build.You are clearly grasping at straws here.Like celya and chris wallace in his original post said on this thread,keaton clearly had the wrong build because he was pudgy and out of shape-and no pudgy is NOT a strong word because its clear he IS in those movies.You really need to deal with reality dude.

Well if you want an everyman, someone such as cant think of his name now-the guy who plays Al Bundy on married with children should have been cast because he is even MORE of an everyday man than keaton is.Bruce Wayne ISNT an everyman so Michael Keaton was wrong for the role in the beginning.deal with it.As far as him having his shirt off in Returns? Well I hated that film as much as Batman and Robin and didnt enjoy ANYTHING at all about that flick- unlike the first film which I still enjoy watching over and over again just to look at the hot looking kim Basinger,the ONLY good thing about that movie.So I only saw Batman Returns once so I will have to look at that scene again.But since I know he was pudgy and out of shape in the first film,then there is no reason at all for me to believe he will be muscular when I look at that scene again in Returns.You also keep saying Keaton had corny lines,prove it,lets see some examples although it will be a waste of your time since I wont read it since I am done with you on this thread since you keep making up false and untrue statements that he was muscular when its clear he was pudgy and out of shape.

 

[WhiteRat]

Just like Michelle Pfeiffer who made such a simple phrase who any of us could say any day sound terrific. (Because he´s Batman you morron!)[/QUOTE]

Okay since you two feel the need to act like children by engaging in name calling and cant admit the truth that Keaton was pudgy and out of shape,I am done with you as well and this will be my last post to either of you on this thread.As I mentioned to Guard,dont expect a reply out of me since I am done with you and I wont bother to read your response.

 

[Proximo]

Keaton never took of his shirt either in 89 or Returns. exept when he is hanging upside down in the bedroom in the first movie...
IN returns after the fight whit catwomen he is sitting in the batcave, pull out the claw from his stomach.. nothing more.

Keaton still looked great as Bruce wayne and in the suit even if he wasnt "buff" as Bale are.

But Keaton will always be the best Batman/Bruce Wayne for me..

 

[WhiteRat]

Keaton never took of his shirt either in 89 or Returns. exept when he is hanging upside down in the bedroom in the first movie...
IN returns after the fight whit catwomen he is sitting in the batcave, pull out the claw from his stomach.. nothing more.

Thanks for pointing that out.I was pretty sure that the scene you mentioned in the first film was the only time in either of the two films that he ever took his shirt off and now that you mention that,I remember that,your right,all he did was pull the claw out of his batsuit,nothing more.Boy some people will really go to extremes when they are losing an argument.

 

[Guason]

Just like Michelle Pfeiffer who made such a simple phrase who any of us could say any day sound terrific. (Because he´s Batman you morron!)

Okay since you two feel the need to act like children by engaging in name calling and cant admit the truth that Keaton was pudgy and out of shape,I am done with you as well and this will be my last post on this thread.As I mentioned to Guard,dont expect a reply out of me since I am done with you and I wont bother to read your response.[/QUOTE]
you won´t believe me but I was just talking about how Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer delivered their one liners to perfection, that wasn´t meant to you.

 

[The Guard]

Okay this is going to be my last post to you because you are clearly delusional-sorry but you deserve that remark with your childish name calling you displayed on Celya's thread.

If you all can't see the subtle humor in my calling him a moron...twice...when I almost never resort to insults, I don't know what to tell you.

But you are seeing things that are clearly not there by coming up with statements that are false.Huge bulging muscles? you are hilarious,you crack me up.

Seeing what that isn't there now? Yes, I said huge bulging muscles. You know, the kind Batman has, and most people want him to have. I never, however, said that Keaton had them. I said Burton didn't want his Batman to have them.

Again you are delusional and seeing things that are clearly not there because there would not be threads being made by people like chris wallace and celya on that other thread pointing out how he had the wrong physical build.

He didn't have the wrong physical build. Tim Burton has said NUMEROUS times (long before this ever became an issue) that he wanted a man who was not a bodybuilder type. He wanted a smaller man who would NEED the suit to intimidate. Yes, this is not like the comics. But it wasn't SUPPOSED to be in the first place.

You are clearly grasping at straws here.

How so?

Well if you want an everyman, someone such as cant think of his name now-the guy who plays Al Bundy on married with children should have been cast because he is even MORE of an everyday man than keaton is.

The problem with "the guy who played Al Bundy" is that he was a little old for the role Burton had in mind (Keaton was five years younger at the time, I believe), wasn't that great an actor, and he's not all that handsome. And he's pretty typecast as "Al Bundy". Burton wanted handsome, he wanted 30ish, and he wanted a man who could show off a lot of charisma and still have that dark edge to him. Which Ed O'Neill didn't really have in spades.

Bruce Wayne ISNT an everyman so Michael Keaton was wrong for the role in the beginning.deal with it.As far as him having his shirt off in Returns? Well I hated that film as much as Batman and Robin and didnt enjoy ANYTHING at all about that flick- unlike the first film which I still enjoy watching over and over again just to look at the hot looking kim Basinger,the ONLY good thing about that movie.So I only saw Batman Returns once so I will have to look at that scene again.But since I know he was pudgy and out of shape in the first film,then there is no reason at all for me to believe he will be muscular when I look at that scene again in Returns.

It depends on what your definition of muscular is. I don't think he's going to look EXTREMELY muscular, but he's certainly not "out of shape". Keaton's martial arts teachers raved about him. So did his stuntmen. And have you seen him in DESPERATE MEASURES?

You also keep saying Keaton had corny lines,prove it,lets see some examples although it will be a waste of your time since I wont read it since I am done with you on this thread since you keep making up false and untrue statements that he was muscular when its clear he was pudgy and out of shape.

"Eat floor. High fiber."

Would you like some more?

Like celya and chris wallace in his original post said on this thread,keaton clearly had the wrong build because he was pudgy and out of shape-and no pudgy is NOT a strong word because its clear he IS in those movies.You really need to deal with reality dude.

Pudgy, last time I checked, means "short and fat". Keaton was neither of those things. He was average, or above average height for males, and definitely not fat. He was certainly not a combination of short AND fat. Therefore, I don't think he was pudgy.

And you continue to ignore the fact that Burton did not WANT a musclebound Bruce Wayne. He WANTED, and the role was DEFINED as, a normal looking "everyman". Which Keaton is. So he fits the role PERFECTLY.

Moron.

 

[Riven]

[southern belle]"Mah lord, an interpretation of a concept that is different from what Ah am familiar and comfortable with! That is entirely too much for lil' ol' me. What-evah shall Ah do??"[/southern belle]

 

[P. Cushing]

Dear WhiteRat,
You are childish, annoying, pigheaded and the spawn of Bakerboy.
Sincerely,
Oldman = Gordon.

 

[P. Cushing]

All actors who played the Character in the Burton movies were better than the actors who voiced them in the animated series except Gordon and the Joker.

You thought Jim Carrey's Riddler was better than John Glovers?! You though Tommy Lee Jones's Two-Face was better than Dick Moll's?! You thought Ahnold's Mr. Freeze was better than Michael Ansara's?! You thought Jeep Swenson's Bane was better than Henry Silva's?!