Will fans ever allow Nightwing to surpass Batman?

[Dark Victory]

In short, no.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

wow, this might be relevant again considering the current storylines

BUMP

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Yes I want him to exceed Batman, but not in terms of detective skills, but in how effective he is at fighting crime, since Nightwing is far far better than Batman at setting up teams and calling in help than the Dark Loner.

 

[CaptainClown]

I would rather Nightwing be his own character then take up the mantle of Batman. However I would be comfortable if he does become batman as long as they pull me in like with what they did with Bucky and Cap. America.

However if it is done like the way Morrison is doing the Batman comics I would be like an old man screaming about how Bruce is the real Batman.

 

[BatmanForNever]

Bruce is Batman, Batman is Bruce.

 

[Nepenthes]

there will always be a mentally degenerate segment of fans who will whine about any given issue at hand no matter what, regardless of quality, cause or good sense. yes it is part of the standard role a comic book fan is to whine, true, but at the end of the day i like to think there's more reasonable fans than not and they'll be the ones who decide what's "allowed". will fans allow Batman & Robin to achieve blockbuster sales figures?, I think yes. they will give their permission to produce multiple prints of the trade


what's the point of training an apprentice if he never takes the top job? Replacing Batman was ALWAYS implicit to the entire concept of Robin imo.

 

[kguillou]

I agree, although obviously Bruce will have to return as Batman somewhere down the line, it would be really nice to see if Dick is up to the task of actually becoming the teacher instead of the student. For Dick its all been leading up to this, all the training, mentoring, i think he's ready to be Batman. It would be nice to get at least a few years worth of stories out of it before Bruce comes back.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Answer to inital question:

NO.

 

[J A Y]

Batman is Batman, he is too good to be surpassed. Nightwing is a great addition to the Batman series, but Batman will always be the top guy in Gotham.

There are more Batman fans then Nightwing, this is the main reason why Batman will always be greater.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Batman is Batman, he is too good to be surpassed. Nightwing is a great addition to the Batman series, but Batman will always be the top guy in Gotham.

There are more Batman fans then Nightwing, this is the main reason why Batman will always be greater.

What a wonderful reason for one character to be greater... because he has more fans. ???

 

[maninthechair]

The student becomes the master and youth replaces age. That's just life and the way of things... so will it ever be acceptable to establish that maybe Nightwing is atleast a better fighter than Batman? I mean... if Batman is really the best ever at everything, then didn't Nightwing have the single best instructor in the entire world and pass with flying colors? If Batman is so obsessed with his war, wouldn't he have made sure that he'd passed on everything he possibly could to Grayson to ensure that the war goes on after Bruce is old or dead? No, Tim doesn't figure in. Neither does Jason, or Azrael, or whatever. I'm talking the originals. Batman and Robin. Father and son. Why is this like one of the only characters who isn't allowed to be surpassed by his protege? I mean... doesn't it make the character and story that much cooler if things are allowed to progress naturally? I know people are going to start spouting off Batman's ridiculously unmatched abilities and superhuman everything, but storywise, why won't fans let this happen? I'm not saying to do it forever, or maybe not even in continuity, but how long can a character be a protege? Especially one as unique and (growingly) popular as Grayson/Nightwing/Robin?

I don't really have a problem with Dick surpassing Bruce. I think that would make some more interesting stories if Nightwing could beat Batman every once in a while as well as add more importance on his character. You could have the JLA even chose Nightwing as a member over Bats since Bruce can be a dick at times (no pun intended).
The problem I have is why eliminate essentially two characters both Batman and Nightwing... If there is anyone to take up the mantle I do think it should be Dick, but I don't see a reason to get rid of those two individual characters. Nightwing, the man obsessed with being as good as Batman yet also being his own individual hero. Batman, the man obsessed with fighting crime. Merging the two gives us a new character and eliminates two that have lasted over 60 years in my opinion

 

[Jorriss]

I hope he does.

What a better way for Batman to ensure the safety of gotham than to leave it with someone who is superior to himself, with his own drive and unmoveable sense of justice.

Same reason I like to think Terry McGinnis passes up Bruce wayne (I like to pretend hes in continuity). It's really the peak of Batmans effectiveness, to make someone better than himself.

*BTW as the author explained, the question is if dick will be MORE SKILLED than Batman, not BECOME Batman.

 

[J A Y]

What a wonderful reason for one character to be greater... because he has more fans. ???

See this, you are a Knightwing fan, I'm a Batman fan. You will always want Knightwing to surpass Batman, were as I would rather Knightwing stay in second place.

If you really think about it, if DC make Knightwing greater, they will be upsetting a LOT of fans, but if Batman stays greater, DC won't be effecting no were near as many fans.

DC wouldn't want to loose fans over a smaller fan group wanting Knightwing to surpass Batman. It's just common sense.

If anyone was to ever surpass Batman, it would be Bruce's son, Damien Wayne. And he would become the next Batman

 

[SuperFerret]

Honestly, Dick has surpassed Bruce in a few ways already. He's a far more capable leader and has more people skills when dealing with other heroes.

 

[SheldonLevene]

What a wonderful reason for one character to be greater... because he has more fans. ???

Get ready for this...it's gonna be a total mind ****. Batman isn't real. As much as I love the character and everything he just isn't. As such, writers are always going to cater toward fans and the simple fact that Batman is more popular is a perfect reason for him to remain #1 in his universe.

 

[CLARKY]

The student becomes the master and youth replaces age. That's just life and the way of things... so will it ever be acceptable to establish that maybe Nightwing is atleast a better fighter than Batman? I mean... if Batman is really the best ever at everything, then didn't Nightwing have the single best instructor in the entire world and pass with flying colors? If Batman is so obsessed with his war, wouldn't he have made sure that he'd passed on everything he possibly could to Grayson to ensure that the war goes on after Bruce is old or dead? No, Tim doesn't figure in. Neither does Jason, or Azrael, or whatever. I'm talking the originals. Batman and Robin. Father and son. Why is this like one of the only characters who isn't allowed to be surpassed by his protege? I mean... doesn't it make the character and story that much cooler if things are allowed to progress naturally? I know people are going to start spouting off Batman's ridiculously unmatched abilities and superhuman everything, but storywise, why won't fans let this happen? I'm not saying to do it forever, or maybe not even in continuity, but how long can a character be a protege? Especially one as unique and (growingly) popular as grayson/Nightwing/Robin?

As much as I understand your points, Larry, I completely disagree. And I understand what you are saying, really read it several times, but I disagree. I think Dick is a great character because, among other things, he has evolved from the boy wonder and has found his own identity. Among all the pretenders, I think he is the only one who SHOULD not become batman.
Don't get me wrong, I think there are plenty of room for a new batman and I would "allow" it (as you put it) but certainly not Nightwing. I am certainly not saying this because I find Bruce as batman great. Certainly not. For the record, Bruce has not been batman for several years, the so-called Milleresque bat-mission consumed Bruce Wayne. There is only batman ("Bruce is just a mask"). That's all. A bastard, an *******, a power and authority junkie with the abilities of defy and BEAT Darkseid, the Justice League, Superman (why would he fight Supes in the first place ? ah yes I forgot "just in case" ...), the whole GL Corps, the sun-Eater, etc ... even Flash ?!?! ... the whole battle thing with with only one hand, blinded, in a wheel chair and without oxygen of course. A life without friends, just tools, when friendship just allow him to keep his mission. and the worse of it ? Blaming others not to live his way, forcing them to become like him. No tolerance, no friends just tools. While the batman mythos slowly became an embodiement of the harsh way to react to our fears in our society, he slowly break the mythos of superman, this being the opposite (friendship, open-minded, respect, to fight the fears of our society). Batman keeps breaking Superman, always and always. Who win when there's a fight between Batman ans Superman ? I think the end of this thinking is people who want a dark Superman or why bat-fans are so wild about the abilities of the character, or the abilities of Superman (you were talking about this above with your post n.102) I think it is all linked.
I do not care who the next batman is ; Jason, Azrael, Tim, for me they are all good, or at least not as worse as Bruce Wayne was.I even thought, at some point, tommy Elliot was going to be batman. I thought that was original. could not be worse than actual batman, for me.
The only thing I care is Dick Grayson, and the way DC comics will treat him in the future after spending more than 20 years establishing than he has his own identity. They spend years trying to establish the potential of a character just to screw it when the so-called real one falls down. IMO, if Dick Grayson has a real identity, if there is a real strengh in the character, if there is real flesh in this character, he should not become batman.

 

[Quinzel]

No.

The End.

 

[JoeCat]

No.

The End.

Well said.

 

[Nepenthes]

the funny thing is most of you will be proved wrong by the sales on the new Batman & Robin title

 

[CaptainClown]

i dont think many people said it will sell poorly just that they won't prefer it

 

[Nepenthes]

so it will be like the thousands of people who buy ASBR just so they can hate it?

...i dunno, i see a slight contradiction there...

 

[CaptainClown]

yup, funny how ASBR still sells yet there seems to be more hate for it then the Morrison series

 

[Nepenthes]

yup, funny how ASBR still sells yet there seems to be more hate for it then the Morrison series

Morrisons batman is hated by a very vocal minority as well as people who don't actually read the books or very much batman in particular. the kind of people who see "Batman dead" or Batman in purple and yellow costumes and then cry about their 'favorite childhood character' being perverted by the hack who wrote Arkham Asylum and that mess Final Crisis. People like yourself who are actually capable of "getting it", but still insist on Resistance, are actually kind of rare in my observation. You have to be kind of missing a piece of your soul not too like at least a few Grant Morrison books let alone Batman. Most of the hate seems to come from quarters than shouldn't concern men of quality anyway is what I'm saying

 

[CaptainClown]

Morrisons batman is hated by a very vocal minority as well as people who don't actually read the books or very much batman in particular. the kind of people who see "Batman dead" or Batman in purple and yellow costumes and then cry about their 'favorite childhood character' being perverted by the hack who wrote Arkham Asylum and that mess Final Crisis. People like yourself who are actually capable of "getting it", but still insist on Resistance, are actually kind of rare in my observation. You have to be kind of missing a piece of your soul not too like at least a few Grant Morrison books let alone Batman. Most of the hate seems to come from quarters than shouldn't concern men of quality anyway is what I'm saying

so I have been told.

but I really don't know what the allure is of his interpretation of the character.Maybe it is a sign i am truly evil....or a genius not tainted by morrison...who knows

 

[lixdexia]

Morrisons batman is hated by a very vocal minority as well as people who don't actually read the books or very much batman in particular. the kind of people who see "Batman dead" or Batman in purple and yellow costumes and then cry about their 'favorite childhood character' being perverted by the hack who wrote Arkham Asylum and that mess Final Crisis. People like yourself who are actually capable of "getting it", but still insist on Resistance, are actually kind of rare in my observation. You have to be kind of missing a piece of your soul not too like at least a few Grant Morrison books let alone Batman. Most of the hate seems to come from quarters than shouldn't concern men of quality anyway is what I'm saying

...or you could be a fan of coherence. coherence to current batman lore, the dcu (even morrison's other continuity books don't make sense as a whole), or just his coherence within his own run on the one book...all are lacking. i get that you enjoy it, and i'm happy for you, i just can't stand his work