Of course you do, you love the portrayal. Although you must have missed the part where I said: "I appreciate his connection to the themes of the movie and to Gotham's situation. But Nolan didn't do anything outwardly impressive or "special" with Falcone given the potential for the character".
What potential? To come across as a socialite? That isn't what the character is about. Nolan simply stole the most important aspects of the character and inserted those aspects into the story. We don't
need to see how "fatherly" Falcone is -- we just need to see that he's a fully certified scumbag who's partially responsible for Bruce becoming Batman.
He may not be the deepest character out there, but he's a lot deeper than say, Rupert Thorne ever was. Read THE LONG HALLOWEEN again. Get back to me. There's a reason Jeph Loeb (hack that he is most of the time) brought various social, political, familial and fatherhood elements to the character. It wasn't so he could be just "shallow".
Falcone isn't just "some thug". And he was never intended to be seen as such, by anyone but maybe The Batman.
Ex-f*****g-actly!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we supposed to viewing the world through
Bruce's eyes? You've just provided the evidence that's destroyed your own argument.
That is why, as I said, we don't NEED to see Falcone as some lovely, fatherly figure -- we just need to see how much a thug he is when he has to get gritty.
The rank of genius comes cheaply these days, it seems.
Nolan is very deserving of the honor, I am sure.
Whoop-dee-freaking-doo, someone represents "corruption and evil. I just cannot wrap my mind around how absurdly "deep" that is. Falcone is supposed to represent the people who are in charge of Gotham due to their social standing being more parasitic of its people. He's the anti-Wayne, essentially. In BATMAN BEGINS, he's a thug.
And, like you said, we are
meant to view him as thug, because we are seeing the events transpire from Bruce Wayne's point of view.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Falcone presents himself as some lovely, down to Earth, business in his spare time, because Batman is the guy who can really see him for what he is -- and that is what we are
meant to be seeing, too.
Also, who said anything about this character being "deep"? I seem to remember saying that Falcone is anything BUT a "deep" character. Another misinterpretation your part. You seem to have found yourself a hobby.
New enemies "must" present themselves, or were going to present themselves anyway? Because BEGINS makes it pretty obvious that Ra's Al Ghul and Crane's plans were in motion long before Batman showed up and took Falcone out.
Yet Falcone was the instigator in Rah's Al Ghul's plan. Without him and his ability to actually
create crime from an armchair, Rah's would never have been able to put his plan into fruition.
You think that's all Falcone should be? That's like saying that Batman should be a fellow who fights crime, and leaving it at that.
Yeah, and Falcone is really as in-depth as Bruce in terms of characterization, isn't he?
Gee - talk about being totally unreasonable. Falcone is a thug who organizes crime. Yes, a
thug. A dirty, cold-hearted thug who lavishes on power. Nolan specifically highlighted these attributes, because we are journeying alongside Bruce. That's why the Falcone/Bruce scene is so powerful. We see Falcone sat back in a nice, comfortable bar -- sipping on coffee and reading a paper. Yet, when Bruce arrives, we get to see how downright nasty and corrupt this guy actually is.
You seem to have this fantasy of the camera showing us Falcone kissing his daughter and shaking hands with pointless characters. You have totally missed the point.
It actually tied into my other point, about Batman being the only guy who can take him down.
As he should, given his skills. Although it's interesting to note...Falcone's a bit of a pushover in BATMAN BEGINS. He just gets taken out. Like that. Mainly due to story purposes
Yeah, so...? What the hell is
your point, dude? At the end of the day, I just think you are having trouble finding Falcone's place in the story.
No skin off my nose.
Even Batman couldn't take Falcone down right away in the comics
I'll play ball.
Didn't Batman totally risk his life in trying to bring down Falcone (i.e. "FREEEEZE!")
Yep, that's right -- I seem to remember old Brucey boy jumping off a rooftop and almost being turned into bug-squat. Yeah, so much for this being "right away"...
and I don't believe having him do so in the movies was an accurate representation of their relationship and history together on any level. Does it work in the context of the film? Sure, but is it "all" that Falcone "should" be? Hardly.
If you want to see Bruce Wayne shaking hands with Falcone, or Falcone coming across as a nice bloke -- then go read The Long Halloween. You just seem to be missing that Nolan presented Falcone purposefully to highlight his corrupt and nasty nature. Someone who is quite morally absolute, totally arrogant and is just a pig who organizes crime and, ultimately, instigated the death of Bruce's parents, to which he went on to make fun of in front of Bruce.
Shame you can't see the meaning behind all of this.
This isn't really implied so much as it is overtly stated during the movie. And this isn't clever. And what's this have to do with Falcone? It could be any criminal that Batman is taking down.
Oh, for the life of me...
I can't believe you even missed
this point -- one of my most simple and basic points. Falcone's character served to show how efficient Batman is, and how on a totally different level he is to the cops. It's a basic concept to create in cinema, but you seem to be looking for something else...
You keep stating the obvious like it adds any depth to Falcone's character. It doesn't. It just diminished him, really, in terms of his film version's potency.
THE FILM ISN'T ABOUT CARMINE FALCONE!
That's it! This is where you
keep going wrong. You want this film to be about Falcone, but it isn't. It's about Bruce Wayne. Falcone's character is there to
SHAPE THE STORY. We are not meant to learn anything else about this character other than, deep down, is a total pig who is rotten to the very core.
He is there to serve a narrative purpose. Christ...
The symbolism is pretty thin. It's symbolism that any character could fill. Easily. This is not enough to make him an interesting or particularly relevant character. How is not being a character of "persona" a good thing in terms of adapting a character?
You are not making once single, solitary, ounce of sense. "It's symbolism that any character could fill"?
WTF does this mean? In the same vein; any character could have filled Falcone's shoes in all the comics he's been in, yes? You basically have missed the point of the character in BB. You seem to have this fascination with learning about the character as a person, when that would be totally pointless and against the narrative. You need to study film arts.
How is this brilliant? That he's nothing but a symbol for an idea. Again. Someone represents "evil" or "crime". That's not particularly clever. I'm not saying it doesn't work on some level, but please don't argue that this version is somehow more superior or more interesting than the comic book one.
Yeah, and there you go again -- putting words into my mouth. Not once have I said that Falcone's film interpretation is more interesting than the comic-book one... just that Nolan highlighted the core of the character and put it into the coarse of the story. That's what an artist does -- and he totally pulled it off... that's if you understand the purpose of his inclusion, of coarse... which you seem not to...
If that's one of the most powerful scenes in the movie, the movie has issues. Which it did, in terms of "emotional scenes", but that's a different argument entirely.
Eh?
How is it NOT a powerful scene? Great acting from both parties; great dialogue; nice use of music; and a disturbing ending.
You are beyond the most unreasonable poster I have come across on these boards -- even more so than regwec.
We get it. Falcone represents the entrenched evil that cannot be stopped by normal means due to the city's corruption and decay.
Wow. What a "brilliant" idea. Never seen that one before.
Yet that is the core of the character. Just as the core of the Joker's character is mayhem, which just so happens to be his narrative purpose in TDK.
And it has nothing to do with Falcone as a character. It has to do with Batman's methods, and Batman himself. You could stick "Bill the rapist" into the same scenario and have the same elements in play.
Give me a f*****g break.
