Wonder Woman-Help!

[wolvie2020]

Hey all, hope ur doin' ok and kickin' it old school

I need some of your help here peeps...

My company has just made a deal with WB for all of their DC characters to create clothing and artwork. While their style guides are great, (far superior to the Marvel ones, I'll tell you that right now,) I always feels its better to go that extra mile and so something different with the application...

But as a general rule of thumb, I'm more of a Marvel fan boy. I also have been working with them for quite some time so I have been mainly reading up on their universe more.

So here's my question; what do any of you out there think are character defining books/stories of Diana and her people/society? (Especially the more current ones. So many companies do the 'retro,' thing. Which is cool, but I think there is much that is untapped in terms of the more 'current,' comics.

I do have a strong grasp of the mythology, but I need to get into her with some more detail methinks.

She is such a strong franchise that has the same weaknesses/strengths that Supes does, but I think I really need to get to know more of the strengths...

Any points/suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this is my livelyhood!

 

[sethcohen]

BrianWilly? you got this one?

 

[WompuM]

My advice, avoid Amazons Attack like the plague. Wonder Woman, honestly, has not been very prominent in the last 5 years worth of comics. Sure, she killed Max Lord prior in Infinite Crisis, but that even had minimal repercussions. Her new series has had a lot of trouble getting off the ground, plagued by multiple delays in its beginning. I have not read any of the recent, what is it, Olympian(?) storyline though, so perhaps that's worth a giggle. The most exposure Dianna has gotten is probably in 90's JLA, and with her huge mess of curly hair back then, well, that could be fun to see on a zip-hoody I suppose.

Frankly, Donna Troy and Cassie Sandsmark get a lot more attention in the overall DCU, imo.

But yes, I'm sure BeeDubya can help you out a great deal more than I can.

 

[Manic]

For recent stuff that lets you get to know Wonder Woman, check out the trade paperback of "Who is Wonder Woman?" by Allan Heinberg and Terry Dodson. For something less recent but still relevant, read Wonder Woman's origin in "Gods and Mortals" by George Perez. Wonder Woman's longtime fans no doubt have a lot of good stories they could recommend, but as a more recent fan myself, I definitely liked "The Circle" by Gail Simone and Terry Dodson.

 

[Hush]

Congratulations on the contract wolvie! I would recommend, was it Rucka's run, I think so anyway. It's Wonder Woman and Rucka. Good stuff.

 

[BrianWilly]

If you want iconic but relevant visual styles, absolutely check out Perez's "Gods and Mortals" trade, as well as its follow-ups. After twenty years it still stands up as the consummate post-Crisis Wonder Woman-slash-Amazons imagery. It's not all collected, but the important parts are there.

Phil Jimenez's run -- mostly collected as well -- builds upon and even further modernizes Perez's motifs, basically flawlessly. He's a fan of the Lynda Carter incarnation, but very much in a post-Crisis context. These two guys, Perez and Jimenez, are basically the go-to guys for all things Wonder Woman, stylistically speaking. Every other run has either tried to mimic them (Byrne), or went in a whole other direction and fell flat on its face (Messner-Leobs).

Again, though, that's purely for visual imagery and style and "tone." In the purely narrative context, Greg Rucka's Wonder woman run is usually and unanimously agreed to be the very best Wonder Woman run. It's very cerebral and "grounded," but filled to the brim with mythology as well as the best-written Diana you're likely to find. It's not too striking visually, other than the usual great comic book art you'll find from great comic book artists, but it's fairly vital for even the most casual WW fans.

Manic suggested Heinberg, but I...might...recommend against it if you're looking for a specific visual style. Heinberg's run was all "reinvention," and he was only on the book for five issues, so who knows if it'll stand up to the test of time.

Avoid Amazons Attack like the AIDS that killed your parents in a dark alley. It's got a strong look and the art isn't bad, but it will give you the single worst and most inaccurate portrayal of Wonder Woman and the Amazons ever written. Ever.

 

[WompuM]

The Batman scene at the... Korean(?)...Vietnam(?)...war memorial was pretty cool. Other than that, yes, the series was HIV positive.

 

[Manic]

I recommended Heinberg's run because it was the first non-Perez thing I'd ever read about Wonder Woman. It brought on the first modern day appearance of her Diana Prince persona, introduced her rogues gallery (well, it let me know she had one beyond Ares, anyway), and was just a solid story altogether. The delays were mind-numbing, but I went back and re-read those 5 issues all in one sitting shortly before Simone started her run, and it reads a lot better without the 3-month lags between issues.

 

[BrianWilly]

I actually liked Heinberg's arc more than most people as well, and wish he had continued if only because it would most likely have meant no Picoult/Pfeifer/Amazons Attack. The problem with it, though, and in particular the whole rogues thing, is that -- to be blunt -- Heinberg made the whole thing up. I'll grant that "Blame all their new powers/motivations on Circe" at least made contextual sense, and the whole OYL thing allowed for a lot of reinventive liberty, but Cheetah was nothing like Cheetah, Giganta was nothing like Giganta, etc etc.

And that mass gang battle that appeared in his fifth issue? None of it had any relevance to or from any continuity whatsoever. Most of the villains that appeared in that issue had never appeared before post-Crisis, and even pre-Crisis only had sporadic appearances. I remember a few that only ever appeared once before in comics. Ever. So that whole thing with them going "We hate you so much Wonder Woman, we've all teamed up to defeat you!" Completely made up. No canon backing at all.

 

[Anubis]

I'd like to see a shirt with that Alex Ross pic of WW standing on Batman's head. He looks like it hurts sooooo gooood.

 

[BrianWilly]

That's from JG Jones, actually. "The Hiketeia."

 

[Anubis]

....

 

[BrianWilly]

 

[Spike_x1]

Heh, like the edit there. t:

 

[BrianWilly]

I literally linked the wrong animated GIF in my long list of animated GIF bookmarks.

 

[yenaled]

Blind Wonder Woman taking on Medusa please.

 

[Lobo]

If you want iconic but relevant visual styles, absolutely check out Perez's "Gods and Mortals" trade, as well as its follow-ups. After twenty years it still stands up as the consummate post-Crisis Wonder Woman-slash-Amazons imagery. It's not all collected, but the important parts are there.

Phil Jimenez's run -- mostly collected as well -- builds upon and even further modernizes Perez's motifs, basically flawlessly. He's a fan of the Lynda Carter incarnation, but very much in a post-Crisis context. These two guys, Perez and Jimenez, are basically the go-to guys for all things Wonder Woman, stylistically speaking. Every other run has either tried to mimic them (Byrne), or went in a whole other direction and fell flat on its face (Messner-Leobs).

Again, though, that's purely for visual imagery and style and "tone." In the purely narrative context, Greg Rucka's Wonder woman run is usually and unanimously agreed to be the very best Wonder Woman run. It's very cerebral and "grounded," but filled to the brim with mythology as well as the best-written Diana you're likely to find. It's not too striking visually, other than the usual great comic book art you'll find from great comic book artists, but it's fairly vital for even the most casual WW fans.

Manic suggested Heinberg, but I...might...recommend against it if you're looking for a specific visual style. Heinberg's run was all "reinvention," and he was only on the book for five issues, so who knows if it'll stand up to the test of time.

Avoid Amazons Attack like the AIDS that killed your parents in a dark alley. It's got a strong look and the art isn't bad, but it will give you the single worst and most inaccurate portrayal of Wonder Woman and the Amazons ever written. Ever.

Agreed.

 

[wolvie2020]

Thanks guys! That's all super-helpful

 

[wolvie2020]

Avoid Amazons Attack like the AIDS that killed your parents in a dark alley. It's got a strong look and the art isn't bad, but it will give you the single worst and most inaccurate portrayal of Wonder Woman and the Amazons ever written. Ever.

Just out of fanboy curiosity, what are the reasons why? All I seem to have seen is that it is universally hated...

I'd like to see a shirt with that Alex Ross pic of WW standing on Batman's head. He looks like it hurts sooooo gooood.

U got a link to this image?

Although, Ross seems to have some sort of a separate deal re: his art for license with WB. Although u never know, I may be able to sort something out in the not too distant future... Fingers x'd!

 

[Lobo]

The Hiketeia is awesome, I should pull that out and read it again.

 

[yenaled]

That's JGJones not Alex Ross.

Oh Brian already said

 

[wolvie2020]

That's JGJones not Alex Ross.

Oh Brian already said

Cool, should technically make it easier theoretically...

Great art!

 

[BrianWilly]

Just out of fanboy curiosity, what are the reasons why? All I seem to have seen is that it is universally hated...

Let me put it this way: in the first six pages of Amazons Attack, an Amazon murders an innocent tourist visiting Washington DC, and then decapitates his son, for no reason whatsoever.

And then it gets worse.

Keep in mind that that this was the original code of the post-Crisis Amazons as written by George Perez:

'Let all who read these words know: we are a nation of women, dedicated to our sisters, to our gods, and to the peace that is humankind's right. Granted life by Gaea, the goddesses and the souls of women past, we have been gifted with the mission to unite the people of our world with love and compassion.

Man has corrupted many of the laws our gods set forth. So, in their wisdom, the goddesses did create a race of female warriors, dedicated to the ideals of uniting all people, all sexes, all races, all creeds. No longer will man rule alone, for now woman stands as an equal to temper his aggression with compassion, lend reason to his rages and overcome hatred with love. We are The Amazons, and we have come to save mankind.'

Almost all WW writers have tried to respect this interpretation; even if they didn't really get it all the time, at least they tried, and were aware of it.

But with Amazons Attack, it was obvious that no one involved in the planning of the miniseries had ever read even a single issue of anything have to do with the Amazons, who -- in the DC Universe -- are supposed to be incredibly enlightened, nurturing, and peaceloving. Yes, they are warriors, but they're firmly good warriors on the side of the good guys and have been that for the last twenty years. These women are Wonder Woman's family, the ones who raised her, they're her friends and her sisters, who taught her how to be Wonder Woman. In this story, though? They were bloodthirsty childkillers who couldn't be reasoned with and just one day decided to take over the world for some reason that's never explained. They bomb Kansas and California, the unleash killer bees on people, at one point they try to kill Wonder Woman herself -- again, for no reason that's ever explained. Forget having any continuity whatsoever with any former stories; the series didn't even follow its own continuity from issue to issue.

It is truly one of those stories where the more you know and like about the characters involved, the worse off it becomes.

It's not just that no one involved seems to have any clue about the Amazons, it's almost as if the creators intentionally set out to be as damaging and capricious towards the characters as humanly possible. Even today the Wonder Woman mythos still hasn't recovered from the damage that AA did to it. It is, without a doubt, without any exaggeration or hyperbole, the single worst Wonder Woman story ever written. I almost suggest that you read it for yourself, because everyone -- and particularly WW fans -- should experience how hilariously awful it is, at least once.

 

[Spike_x1]

Just once, I'd like to see someone ask writers of stories like that to explain their reasoning behind putting such ridiculousness on paper.

 

[Lobo]

Let me put it this way: in the first six pages of Amazons Attack, an Amazon murders an innocent tourist visiting Washington DC, and then decapitates his son, for no reason whatsoever.

And then it gets worse.

Keep in mind that that this was the original code of the post-Crisis Amazons as written by George Perez:
Almost all WW writers have tried to respect this interpretation; even if they didn't really get it all the time, at least they tried, and were aware of it.

But with Amazons Attack, it was obvious that no one involved in the planning of the miniseries had ever read even a single issue of anything have to do with the Amazons, who -- in the DC Universe -- are supposed to be incredibly enlightened, nurturing, and peaceloving. Yes, they are warriors, but they're firmly good warriors on the side of the good guys and have been that for the last twenty years. These women are Wonder Woman's family, the ones who raised her, they're her friends and her sisters, who taught her how to be Wonder Woman. In this story, though? They were bloodthirsty childkillers who couldn't be reasoned with and just one day decided to take over the world for some reason that's never explained. They bomb Kansas and California, the unleash killer bees on people, at one point they try to kill Wonder Woman herself -- again, for no reason that's ever explained. Forget having any continuity whatsoever with any former stories; the series didn't even follow its own continuity from issue to issue.

It is truly one of those stories where the more you know and like about the characters involved, the worse off it becomes.

It's not just that no one involved seems to have any clue about the Amazons, it's almost as if the creators intentionally set out to be as damaging and capricious towards the characters as humanly possible. Even today the Wonder Woman mythos still hasn't recovered from the damage that AA did to it. It is, without a doubt, without any exaggeration or hyperbole, the single worst Wonder Woman story ever written. I almost suggest that you read it for yourself, because everyone -- and particularly WW fans -- should experience how hilariously awful it is, at least once.

I decided to skip it, as I knew it was going to be trash, but reading after reading this; wow, just wow!

I always find the best way to describe the DC Amazons to be those unfamiliar is to liken them to the Shao Lin monks. Kind, loving, peaceful, and spiritual. However, should you provoke them and leave them no recourse but to fight? Then, well, you're going to get your ass handed to you because they are the best