Wonder Woman script review

[spark627]

Well, I guess I don't mean that she's literally nihilistic and thinks that normal people are beneath her or whatever. But I think an important core of the character is the Amazons were literally created because humanity screwed up and are going bad. She's here because we're doing things wrong, and she has to correct us. She was always incredibly preachy, even back in the 40s and during the TV show. But, y'know, she'd do it nicely. I think there's very interesting social/religious angles that could be played with that.

There are people who would accept her without question. And then there's people who would be like, "Who do you think you are? Who are you to judge us? You come from Paradise and criticize our way of life, who gave you the right? Your gods?" How would people today respond to a woman showing up, dressed like she does, preaching to people and acting like a religious savior? How would the men who lead the world respond to someone like her openly condemning their ways and saying "mine are better"? And then she'd have to find a way to balance that and respond to that without proving them right. And it would have been great under Whedon, since he's touched on similar themes dozens of times before.

Instead, people want Nazis.

Go figure.

We know nothing of Whedon's plans, except for the things he was changing. There is no way to know if Whedon would have done a great job.

 

[The Question]

Well, I guess I don't mean that she's literally nihilistic and thinks that normal people are beneath her or whatever. But I think an important core of the character is the Amazons were literally created because humanity screwed up and are going bad. She's here because we're doing things wrong, and she has to correct us. She was always incredibly preachy, even back in the 40s and during the TV show. But, y'know, she'd do it nicely. I think there's very interesting social/religious angles that could be played with that. Of course she herself doesn't have a mean bone and just wants the best for everyone and is filled with love for the people and stuff, but that doesn't mean everyone else thinks so. Look at how people respond to others telling them to "accept Christ," "renounce your former ways" and whatever. She's basically telling us, "accept Athena."

Honestly, I don't think she cares about what anyone's religion is, but I see what you mean. She feels that our society is flawed and that we can and should do much better.

There are people who would accept her without question. And then there's people who would be like, "Who do you think you are? Who are you to judge us? You come from Paradise and criticize our way of life, who gave you the right? Your gods?" How would people today respond to a woman showing up, dressed like she does, preaching to people and acting like a religious savior? How would the men who lead the world respond to someone like her openly condemning their ways and saying "mine are better"? And then she'd have to find a way to balance that and respond to that without proving them right. And it would have been great under Whedon, since he's touched on similar themes dozens of times before.

Instead, people want Nazis.

Go figure.

That's the way of things. Honestly, I think alot of the themes and plot elements used in Superman Returns would have worked much better with Wonder Woman. The contraversial messiah like figure, the villain who's beassically the living embodyment of corperate greed and the moral decay of society, etc. But then, not everyone gets Superman or Wonder Woman the way I do.

 

[mclay18]

The script review does sound very promising... perhaps the reviewer was so ecstatic by how good the script was, maybe he forgot to add that there was character development and such in there.

Judging by the script review, I say keep the script the way it is. I'd like to see sections from the script as well as more detailed synopsis of the final two parts of the film, but overall it does sound promising.

 

[BrianWilly]

We know nothing of Whedon's plans, except for the things he was changing. There is no way to know if Whedon would have done a great job.

Whedon had talked at length about how he saw Diana's character as a fish out of water and a nearly flawless person who doesn't quite understand why the state of the world is as it is. He mentioned that he saw Wonder Woman is very powerful, very dangerous, but she doesn't look at herself that way, and only when she does would she be a good superhero. I don't agree with everything he's stated, but I think we did have a vague..very vague...idea of where he was going with it.

Honestly, I don't think she cares about what anyone's religion is, but I see what you mean. She feels that our society is flawed and that we can and should do much better.

Oh sure, we as the readers/viewers know that she doesn't care what anyone's religion is so long as we're all loving and kind and stuff. But why would anyone in the this movie know that? If someone came up to you and started trying to convert you to their religion or lifestyle, what's your first instinct? They could have the best intentions in all the world, and it would still feel invasive. People have a bad reaction to being preached to, and it's Wonder Woman's mission from the gods to do just that. People like to have the freedom to make their own mistakes, and they have the right to do so.

It's exactly why Wonder Woman's mission is so darn close to completely impossible. Not only is she supposed to bring about world peace, but she's has to somehow bring it to people who are completely entitled to not listen to her. And she kept on doing it, because the act mattered to her as much as the goal. That's a patently Whedonesque state of mind, incidentally.

 

[SufferingSappho]

BrianWilly, I just have to say that I agree with you on absolutely everything you've just said.

 

[CConn]

I disagree with nearly everything he said, myself. But then, I don't carry pictures of Joss Whedon in my wallet either.

 

[SufferingSappho]

And nor do I carry pictures of Whedon in my wallet. I think he's a very good writer and director, but I'm actually talking more about what he/she said about Wonder Woman.

 

[CConn]

Oh, I was talking more about his original comments about how doing a period piece is demeaning and regressive to Wonder Woman as a character.

 

[Batman1939]

The Script review looks awesome im looking foward on whats happening next.

 

[jrpstarwars]

How many guys here have a 'man-crush' on Joss Whedon? We know Kebab Qud and Suffering Sappho are two...

 

[The Question]

Oh sure, we as the readers/viewers know that she doesn't care what anyone's religion is so long as we're all loving and kind and stuff. But why would anyone in the this movie know that? If someone came up to you and started trying to convert you to their religion or lifestyle, what's your first instinct? They could have the best intentions in all the world, and it would still feel invasive. People have a bad reaction to being preached to, and it's Wonder Woman's mission from the gods to do just that. People like to have the freedom to make their own mistakes, and they have the right to do so.

Ah. Sorry. I misunderstood. In the end it sounds like we've been saying the same thing but articulating it differently.

It's exactly why Wonder Woman's mission is so darn close to completely impossible. Not only is she supposed to bring about world peace, but she's has to somehow bring it to people who are completely entitled to not listen to her. And she kept on doing it, because the act mattered to her as much as the goal. That's a patently Whedonesque state of mind, incidentally.

Not disagreeing. I was just looking at it from the standpoint of Diana's internal struggle over how far she can go before she goes to far, or how much violence is or isn't necessairy in drastic situations while on a mission of peace.

 

[BrianWilly]

I disagree with nearly everything he said, myself. But then, I don't carry pictures of Joss Whedon in my wallet either.

Are you a Wonder Woman fan, CConn?

Because I am. I have read every. Single. Issue. Of her post-Crisis solo series, starting right from Perez's classic reimagining. I can list, off the top of my head, every single major arc involving the character that she has ever gone through. I can tell you exactly how the character of Wonder Woman has changed throughout the course of the last twenty years as her writers and directions changed, often contradicting one another and not always for the better. I have an opinion on pretty much every single JLA writer who's ever tackled Wonder Woman on that motley crew, ranging from good(Kelly) to tolerable(Morrison) to unimpressive(Waid, Meltzer) to pathetic(Austen, of course). I have a variety of completely random WW-related info in my head, such as the amount of times that the Diana Trevor character has ever appeared and the first time that the modern Wonder Girl's father was ever hinted to be Zeus. Here's a clue: it wasn't in Teen Titans.

This is not me saying that my opinions of her are automatically more valid than yours or anyone else's, just because I've read a bit more and have a head full of utterly useless trivia. On the contrary, I think Diana's such a complex character who has gone through so many disparate incarnations that for any one person to claim "the" definitive take on her is just silly at best and self-delusion at worst. You probably also have a pretty clear, pretty cohesive idea of who Wonder Woman is in your head, and I suppose it would still be "Wonder Woman" even if it's very different than mine.

However, this is me saying that if you ever want to deride my opinion on this subject in particular, you're going to have to do better -- a lot better -- than "LAWL HE OBVIOUSLY LIKES WHEDON WHICH IS STUPID." You think that a WW2 film isn't demeaning and doesn't regress the character, fine; your mistake. But you clearly haven't been paying any attention to a single word I've said if you think that my appreciation of Whedon has anything to do...anything at all...with how I feel about the direction of this movie. I want a Wonder Woman film set in the modern day because that's the Wonder Woman I like, that I grew up with, that I know is capable of succeeding.

 

[CConn]

You make the mistake of thinking I actually care enough to try to deride your opinion. I've learned long ago how futile it is to argue with people as firmly encrusted in their beliefs as you obviously are. It would be like arguing over God's existence with Pat Robertson.

But, if it makes you feel any better, I will say I know you're a Wonder Woman fan. I know you're want for a good Wonder Woman movie extends well beyond your being a fan of Whedon.

However, considering you LOVE every single little thing Whedon turns out, it's obvious to me that (to put it nicely) our definition of what's good in a movie is vastly different. And what could very well be a perfect little Whedon Wonder Woman movie in your opinion, would be utter crap to me.

Which, honestly, would be fine with me; just writing it off as a difference of opinion. and little more. But if you're going to eternally act like it's my mistake for not thinking Whedon is the second coming of Christ, it's my mistake for actually liking the idea of a WW2 Wonder Woman movie, then, to me, it'll be your mistake that you don't have the good taste to realize Whedon sucks.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Are you a Wonder Woman fan, CConn?

Because I am. I have read every. Single. Issue. Of her post-Crisis solo series, starting right from Perez's classic reimagining. I can list, off the top of my head, every single major arc involving the character that she has ever gone through. I can tell you exactly how the character of Wonder Woman has changed throughout the course of the last twenty years as her writers and directions changed, often contradicting one another and not always for the better. I have an opinion on pretty much every single JLA writer who's ever tackled Wonder Woman on that motley crew, ranging from good(Kelly) to tolerable(Morrison) to unimpressive(Waid, Meltzer) to pathetic(Austen, of course). I have a variety of completely random WW-related info in my head, such as the amount of times that the Diana Trevor character has ever appeared and the first time that the modern Wonder Girl's father was ever hinted to be Zeus. Here's a clue: it wasn't in Teen Titans.

This is not me saying that my opinions of her are automatically more valid than yours or anyone else's, just because I've read a bit more and have a head full of utterly useless trivia. On the contrary, I think Diana's such a complex character who has gone through so many disparate incarnations that for any one person to claim "the" definitive take on her is just silly at best and self-delusion at worst. You probably also have a pretty clear, pretty cohesive idea of who Wonder Woman is in your head, and I suppose it would still be "Wonder Woman" even if it's very different than mine.

However, this is me saying that if you ever want to deride my opinion on this subject in particular, you're going to have to do better -- a lot better -- than "LAWL HE OBVIOUSLY LIKES WHEDON WHICH IS STUPID." You think that a WW2 film isn't demeaning and doesn't regress the character, fine; your mistake. But you clearly haven't been paying any attention to a single word I've said if you think that my appreciation of Whedon has anything to do...anything at all...with how I feel about the direction of this movie. I want a Wonder Woman film set in the modern day because that's the Wonder Woman I like, that I grew up with, that I know is capable of succeeding.

You were doing well until the bolded part

 

[CConn]

My point exactly.

 

[Manhunter]

Great read, great find

I´m 50/50 on this one.
It starts good, it starts really good, but then falls in what reviewer calls a "fun filled adventure", and comic books deserve way more than that.

Funny thing is, comic book movies always suck when they miss the "fun filled adventure" aspect, since comic books are primarily fun filled adventures.

It's not all Emo laden Gaimen crap.

The all "argument between mother and daughter", "Hippolyte has a fit" and all that jazz, sounds really bad to me.

Maybe you should follow your own sig advice and read up on some Wonder Woman history, because for the last 60+ years, Hippolyte has always sought to shelter Diana and forbids her from competing.

Hippolyte was never like that in the comics...

How would you know? It's painfully obvious you haven't a clue.

8/10 on the script review myself. Shoot that sucker and cast Biel already!

 

[Manhunter]

Heres How I would of done a WonderWoman Movie.

The movie would begin with a voice over of an old woman, as she Explains her younger days as a free Lance pilot during world War 2. We see as she encounters trouble while flying over Europe. She is forced to crash Land after her plane is attacked but what appears to be Nazi's. Useing all her skills, she manages to Land by what appears to be an Island which just appears from a Mist. Badly Injured, she blacks out as her Plane floats by the Island. She awakens on the Island's beach, as a a group of armor clad Warrior woman stand over her. She then Blacks out again, and later awakens on a bed inside a Tower. Her Injuries her are fully healed, and she is amazed buy all this. The door to the room opens, and 5 warrior woman walk in, and behind them is a beautiful black haired Queen woman with a crown on her head. The Queen asks the female Pilot in Greek who she is. The female Pilot does not understand her ofcourse.

The Queen then takes her woman and leaves the room, and then locks the door behind her. The female Pilot then spends days in the tower, where she is routinely brought food. One day, the food does not arrive, and the female Pilot manages to escape the tower. She makes it down to the Island, and sees the Warrior woman fighting a giant Creature. she sees they need her help, and runs over and manages to distract the monster, giving the warrior woman time to kill it. After this the warrior woman considered the outworlder to be an honored hero for her bravery. It is from here that their Queen Hippolyta welcomed her among the Warrior woman-The Amazons. The pilot revealed her name to be Diana Trevor, and she spent months living among the Amazons learning all about them. Diana eventually managed to repair her plane, and left the Paradise Island with many tales of her Amazon friends. Before she Left, she was given a Amazon pendant by Hippolyta, which would guide her back to the mystical Island, should she ever choose to return.

Diana Trevor Returned to what the Amazons deemed "Mans world". She never got married, but she did get pregnant, but her childs father left before birth. Thus the male child was given Diana's Last name of Trevor, and he soon grew up and had a kid of his own. The kid would be called Steve Trevor. Diana told her adventurous grandson Steve Trevor stories of her time with the Amazons. Unlike his father, Steve Trevor never out grew Diana's epic tales of the Amazons. Now in the 21st century, world once now torn buy the war on Terror. 26 year old Steve Trevor is a accomplished Military Pilot himself. On her deathbed, his Grandmother Diana gives him the same pendant the Amazons gave her decades Ago. Telling her grandson those stories she told him were true. After Diana dies, Steve wonders if he should go find this mythic Paradise Island himself. His father tells him not to be foolish, and that Diana was just a "Imaginative woman". Despite his fathers harsh words, Steve gathered together his grandmothers pendant, and sets out to find the island of The Amazons for himself.

Ewwww, wonder girl: the movie.

Why not just throw in a giant spider and a suit in a can while your at it? Oh wait, the giant Creature is there after all...

Story is conflict. Without conflict, who gives a **** how emotionally complex your characters are. I'm being harsh, but if someone isn't, you won't see an imparitive to improve.

 

[GL1]

You were doing well until the bolded part

Howso? The character has grown far beyond the concepts present in a "Lets get those damn Nazis" storyline. To focus on her Pre-Crisis origin story instead of making her relevant for the present is a less interesting, less difficult and all around lesser endeavour. It can be done well, but seeing Wonder Woman as a modern superhero seems ideal.

 

[CConn]

How so?

Because Brian switched from simply stating his opinion, to inferring my opinion is automatically wrong. Such pomposity does nothing but lower the quality of a debate or conversation.

 

[GL1]

Because Brian switched from simply stating his opinion, to inferring my opinion is automatically wrong. Such pomposity does nothing but lower the quality of a debate or conversation.

Ah. Understandable then... carry on.

Manhunter-

That's actually a decent start for a Steve Trevor movie, but I think the fact that you are putting Steve at the center of your story (even though it's just the start, with that sequence, you're going to have the audience rooting for Steve and it's not going to matter how Diana's introduced)... I think that highlights how difficult it is to make Diana an empathizable character instead of just a main character... giving the audience a reason to connect with and root for some clay that wins an arena battle is a bit of a workout...

 

[Katsuro]

A Wonder Woman movie set in WWII is like giving Batman a handgun. Why, after decades upon decades of updating and modernizing these stories, would we go back and use the outdated Golden Age versions? Wonder Woman, as she exists in the comics today, has never even fought Nazi's. Just like the current Batman never used a gun and the current Superman never helped distribute newspapers that say "Slap a Jap by buying War Bonds".

 

[CConn]

While I wouldn't want Batman to have a gun, as a Batman fan, I'd have no problem with a Batman film being made directly from the early Kane/Finger comics.

Batman using a gun, and Superman being a Jap Hater are both rather embarrassing moments in their histories. Moments that most would rather forget. The WW2 aspect of Wonder Woman, however, is not embarrassing. It's not demeaning or offensive to the character in anyway. It's simply a different way, in a different time, to tell a Wonder Woman story. And that I have no problem with.

 

[The Sage]

Everyone's giving their opinion on how they would do a Wonder Woman movie,
So here's mine...

 

[bosef982]

Oh, I was talking more about his original comments about how doing a period piece is demeaning and regressive to Wonder Woman as a character.

How many guys here have a 'man-crush' on Joss Whedon? We know Kebab Qud and Suffering Sappho are two...

So now, like with Bryan Singer, if someone likes a particular director's work they are unconditionally unqualified to make any assessment about a quailty of a work because we work form the default presumption that is undisputable that these said directors would've produced crap and these are blind?

CCon, I thought you were above such dogmatism.

These boards make me sick sometimes.

I for one would've probably enjoyed Whedon's take. Not because I'm a huge Whedon fan -- I loved Buffy, hated Angel and Serentiy and Firefly, loved the Astonishing X-Men (anyone who says that Whedon doesn't know what a comic should run like needs to read that) -- but I thought he was an ideal choice for Wonder Woman and would've made it a true wonder to behold....his sensibilities toward feminity and grace and power would've resonated well with her mission...not some cheesy Indie-Captain American knock-off gimmick.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don't see anything wrong with Chris' post,he clearly likes the WWII idea as do i,why should we be labeled for having that view ?