Wonder Woman script review

[bosef982]

My point exactly.

You weren't doing to well yourself there; look at your own posts before you hop on someone elses. You're intereptations are not iron-clad, and your approach to presuming that just because someone likes Whedon that they cannot properly assess a Wonder Woman movie is as erroneous as Billy remarking that you made a mistake in not seeing it his way. You're attacking the person, trying to create a straw man, when instead you should be focusing on WHY his vision of Wonder Woman is not as a good as the PERIOD PIECE you suggest...saying, "he's a Whedon-ite" isn't a good argument, regardless of what he's saying to you....

Otherwise, you're just disappointing.

 

[bosef982]

I don't see anything wrong with Chris' post,he clearly likes the WWII idea as do i,why should we be labeled for having that view ?

Its the continual presumption on these boards that being a fan of a particular director's work invalidates your opinion on any matter dealing with that director and makes you unrefutably bias to all future actions...

That's what's wrong with it.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Its the continual presumption on these boards that being a fan of a particular director's work invalidates your opinion on any matter dealing with that director and makes you unrefutably bias to all future actions...

That's what's wrong with it.

Firstly i'd say that was a fair assumption,if we are all honest are we not somewhat biased towards a project due to a director who's work we like's involvement ?

Also this is what Chris said in the quote you quoted

Oh, I was talking more about his original comments about how doing a period piece is demeaning and regressive to Wonder Woman as a character.

He doesn't mention Whedon at all,he is making the point that he disagrees with the period piece being demeaning to the character

 

[The Question]

Funny thing is, comic book movies always suck when they miss the "fun filled adventure" aspect, since comic books are primarily fun filled adventures.

That's the kind of aditude that's been holding the medium back for decades. There's nothing wrong with fun filled adventures, but comics have potential for so much more.

It's not all Emo laden Gaimen crap.

....




....you and me, we've got problems.

 

[BrianWilly]

You make the mistake of thinking I actually care enough to try to deride your opinion.

...And yet you did just that.

I've learned long ago how futile it is to argue with people as firmly encrusted in their beliefs as you obviously are. It would be like arguing over God's existence with Pat Robertson.

...And yet you're doing just that.

But, if it makes you feel any better, I will say I know you're a Wonder Woman fan. I know you're want for a good Wonder Woman movie extends well beyond your being a fan of Whedon.

Great, thanks. So why did you suggest otherwise?

However, considering you LOVE every single little thing Whedon turns out, it's obvious to me that (to put it nicely) our definition of what's good in a movie is vastly different. And what could very well be a perfect little Whedon Wonder Woman movie in your opinion, would be utter crap to me.

Ah. So you're basing your views of my opinion of this movie on something that no longer has anything at all to do with the movie. Quite logical of you. Because since I like Whedon and you don't, clearly it is impossible for anything else I like to have any validity. Clearly.

You've yet to show evidence that my appreciation of Whedon is clouding my judgment, and yet your disapproval of him is clearly clouding yours.

Heh, I win.

Which, honestly, would be fine with me; just writing it off as a difference of opinion. and little more. But if you're going to eternally act like it's my mistake for not thinking Whedon is the second coming of Christ, it's my mistake for actually liking the idea of a WW2 Wonder Woman movie, then, to me, it'll be your mistake that you don't have the good taste to realize Whedon sucks.

Oh please. I haven't acted like Whedon was the second coming of Christ for a good three or four days now. I hadn't even addressed you before my last post. Frankly, none of this had anything to do with what I've said and you know it.

You were doing well until the bolded part

Because Brian switched from simply stating his opinion, to inferring my opinion is automatically wrong. Such pomposity does nothing but lower the quality of a debate or conversation.

I think a World War II Wonder Woman movie is stupid and wrong. Of course I think it's a mistake. And guess what? I've explicitly stated why I think so for the last two pages or so. Just because you've yet to directly address any of my points despite having such a low opinion of them doesn't change the fact that my points were there.

So no, I didn't "infer that your opinion is automatically wrong," unlike you did with that Whedon crack. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Feel free to say, "Your idea of Wonder Woman is a mistake and flawed and stupid besides," and feel free to tell me why, because I'm certainly going to continue to do that. I thought that was what we were doing here in the first place. So unless I'm no longer allowed to make any value judgments on anyone's opinions based on my entirely valid viewpoint of the subject in question, I'll just hang on to my allusion that I'm "doing well," thanks.

 

[Hunter Rider]

So no, I didn't "infer that your opinion is automatically wrong," unlike you did with that Whedon crack. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Feel free to say, "Your idea of Wonder Woman is a mistake and flawed and stupid besides," and feel free to tell me why, because I'm certainly going to continue to do that. I thought that was what we were doing here in the first place. So unless I'm no longer allowed to make any value judgments on anyone's opinions based on my entirely valid viewpoint of the subject in question, I'll just hang on to my allusion that I'm "doing well," thanks.

You'll always be doing less than well with an attitude that someones view is mistaken because it disagrees with yours,what exactly do you want ppl to say ? myself and Chris like the idea of a period piece,it's different to other modern set movies,brings WWII (a subject i like) into the mix and can still have a good character arc for WW,i'm not saying a modern take is bad i'm saying i like the period take,what more do i or anyone need to say ?

 

[Kebab gud]

wrong thread.. sorry

 

[Manhunter]

Ah. Understandable then... carry on.

Manhunter-

That's actually a decent start for a Steve Trevor movie, but I think the fact that you are putting Steve at the center of your story (even though it's just the start, with that sequence, you're going to have the audience rooting for Steve and it's not going to matter how Diana's introduced)... I think that highlights how difficult it is to make Diana an empathizable character instead of just a main character... giving the audience a reason to connect with and root for some clay that wins an arena battle is a bit of a workout...

LMAO, yes by all means, let's have a Steve Trevor movie. His comic books sell so well, and making the supporting cast the focus of the movie worked so well For SR lets do it again for WW!

Here's a radical idea for a super-hero movie, let's make the focus on plot, rather than character. Sure the outspoken emotional cripples will be lost without that empathizable character to nurture them where their mother's failed to, but the rest of us can be entertained by pulse-pounding action and some good old fashioned sex appeal.

 

[Manhunter]

You'll always be doing less than well with an attitude that someones view is mistaken because it disagrees with yours,what exactly do you want ppl to say ? myself and Chris like the idea of a period piece,it's different to other modern set movies,brings WWII (a subject i like) into the mix and can still have a good character arc for WW,i'm not saying a modern take is bad i'm saying i like the period take,what more do i or anyone need to say ?

Nazi's = Best. Villain. Period.

 

[The Question]

LMAO, yes by all means, let's have a Steve Trevor movie. His comic books sell so well, and making the supporting cast the focus of the movie worked so well For SR lets do it again for WW!

Here's a radical idea for a super-hero movie, let's make the focus on plot, rather than character. Sure the outspoken emotional cripples will be lost without that empathizable character to nurture them where their mother's failed to, but the rest of us can be entertained by pulse-pounding action and some good old fashioned sex appeal.

But there is so much more to Diana than that. What you describe wouldn't be a bad movie, but because Wonder Woman has the potential for so much more, it woiuld kind of be half assing it.

 

[CConn]

...And yet you did just that.

...And yet you're doing just that.

No, I was posting for my own self-gratification. I do that a lot.

Great, thanks. So why did you suggest otherwise?

I suggested that you like things that I don't.

Ah. So you're basing your views of my opinion of this movie on something that no longer has anything at all to do with the movie. Quite logical of you. Because since I like Whedon and you don't, clearly it is impossible for anything else I like to have any validity. Clearly.

You've yet to show evidence that my appreciation of Whedon is clouding my judgment, and yet your disapproval of him is clearly clouding yours.

Hardly. You simply have stated - many times - about how interested you were/are in seeing Whedon's vision. Considering I haven't enjoyed a single piece of Whedon's live action work (save for Toy Story, I guess ), I am not interested in seeing what he would have done. That's all I was commenting on.

Heh, I win.

What ever floats your boat, skippy.

Oh please. I haven't acted like Whedon was the second coming of Christ for a good three or four days now. I hadn't even addressed you before my last post. Frankly, none of this had anything to do with what I've said and you know it.

The fact you weren't speaking to me directly doesn't change the fact you're constantly disrespectful to differing opinions. Now I'm being disrespectful to you. It's fun.

I think a World War II Wonder Woman movie is stupid and wrong. Of course I think it's a mistake. And guess what? I've explicitly stated why I think so for the last two pages or so. Just because you've yet to directly address any of my points despite having such a low opinion of them doesn't change the fact that my points were there.

I never said they weren't there.

So no, I didn't "infer that your opinion is automatically wrong," unlike you did with that Whedon crack. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Feel free to say, "Your idea of Wonder Woman is a mistake and flawed and stupid besides," and feel free to tell me why, because I'm certainly going to continue to do that. I thought that was what we were doing here in the first place. So unless I'm no longer allowed to make any value judgments on anyone's opinions based on my entirely valid viewpoint of the subject in question, I'll just hang on to my allusion that I'm "doing well," thanks.

 

[GL1]

LMAO, yes by all means, let's have a Steve Trevor movie. His comic books sell so well, and making the supporting cast the focus of the movie worked so well For SR lets do it again for WW!

Here's a radical idea for a super-hero movie, let's make the focus on plot, rather than character. Sure the outspoken emotional cripples will be lost without that empathizable character to nurture them where their mother's failed to, but the rest of us can be entertained by pulse-pounding action and some good old fashioned sex appeal.

Ah, so you found my cleverly disguised criticism, but failed to identify it, thinking somehow I had a steve-fixation and not you. Interesting. I'm not going to even comment on your inability to recognize that the appeal of comics has always been in empathizing with the character.

That said, for pulse pounding action and good old fashioned sex appeal you just described Aeon Flux and Ultraviolet... some people want more, they want character arcs... the action and sex should be there, sure, but without a good story and realistic character arcs, your movie is empty and unentertaining. Do you think more action or sex appeal would have saved Aeon Flux and Ultraviolet?

Perhaps you enjoyed those movies, several people did, but I'd hope that a Wonder Woman movie would take several steps beyond that...

Did you really think you could make an excellent A+ movie without a strong character arc? Or do you really not care how good Wondy is as long as it gets made?

 

[Manhunter]

But there is so much more to Diana than that. What you describe wouldn't be a bad movie, but because Wonder Woman has the potential for so much more, it woiuld kind of be half assing it.

Plot = conflict. Preferably external, while some think that anything other than internal conflict is "half assing it", others who got enough attn as children are perfectly satisfied with Good v.s Evil.

This intellectual snobbery that angst ridden internal conflict is superior to external conflict with a compelling antagonist is complete rubbish. It's apples and oranges, and frankly I am sick to death with Donner's Kent dilemma that permeates throughout 90% of all super-hero movies. "Oh woe is me, my superhuman powers make my life so hard...

I mean ya, that's a real part about CK and Superman, but c'mon. Get off teh formula already average movie goer.

If you guys want another batch of "Days of our spider-lives", so be it. I like the notion of WW meets Gladiator/LoTR/any other great movie where a character develops through the interaction with an atagonist over internal reflections of past history.

Can the hero cowboy the **** up in time? who cares...the fact that it's still an issue precludes him/her from being a hero in the first place.

 

[Manhunter]

Did you really think you could make an excellent A+ movie without a strong character arc?

Without a compelling antagonist or a significant conflict your character is a complete tool. Look at how strong Neo's arc was...

BTW, when the **** did I ever claim Aoen Flux or Ultraviolet had compelling antagonists or significant conflicts? Oh right, I didn't, that's just you putting imaginary words in my mouth. I wouldn't know anything about those movies, because sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I wouldn't know...

Or do you really not care how good Wondy is as long as it gets made?

I want Gladiator good, not Spiderman II "good". You appearantly want a hug.

 

[BrianWilly]

You'll always be doing less than well with an attitude that someones view is mistaken because it disagrees with yours,what exactly do you want ppl to say ?

...You are aware that when you disagree with someone, that usually means that you think they're mistaken, right...?

What do you want me to say? "WowerZ, a WW2 treatment of Wonder Woman would be AWESOME I can't believe everyone's thinking of something SO SMART!"? I think it's stupid, I think it's a mistake, and I'm going to tell you exactly why I think it's a stupid mistake, because I was under the impression that such was exactly what this forum was here for. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. This is a discussion board about topics that are often controversial and divisive, heaven forbid people disagree with each other. I never once said, "You're stupid because you think this" or "You should just stop thinking such stupid things" or "I don't respect you now because you said this." If I have, please point it out to me and I'll apologize.

And even still, if you still think I'm too harsh and rude in my criticisms even though the only things I've attacked were opinions? By all means, put me on ignore. I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but I'm not going to just smile and nod politely when I see posts and opinions that I think are mistakes.

 

[Hunter Rider]

...You are aware that when you disagree with someone, that usually means that you think they're mistaken, right...?

What do you want me to say? "WowerZ, a WW2 treatment of Wonder Woman would be AWESOME I can't believe everyone's thinking of something SO SMART!"? I think it's stupid, I think it's a mistake, and I'm going to tell you exactly why I think it's a stupid mistake, because I was under the impression that such was exactly what this forum was here for. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. This is a discussion board about topics that are often controversial and divisive, heaven forbid people disagree with each other. I never once said, "You're stupid because you think this" or "You should just stop thinking such stupid things" or "I don't respect you now because you said this." If I have, please point it out to me and I'll apologize.

And even still, if you still think I'm too harsh and rude in my criticisms even though the only things I've attacked were opinions? By all means, put me on ignore. I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but I'm not going to just smile and nod politely when I see posts and opinions that I think are mistakes.

Very dramatic and yet not at all needed,your attitude of "You're mistaken" comes off as obnoxious thus the responses you receeved,i'm well aware of how debate works thank you but thinking someone is mistaken is not always part of it as sometimnes when one is not in their own tunnel their mind opens to other avenues if they listen instead of simply digging in
Now i'm not saying don't discuss i'm saying choose words and delivery well,i never personally feel the need to put anyone on the childish ignore system as no one bothers me enough in netland to do something so petty and i feel you present many points well,just at times you could leave the condescension out of the posts

 

[BrianWilly]

Hardly. You simply have stated - many times - about how interested you were/are in seeing Whedon's vision. Considering I haven't enjoyed a single piece of Whedon's live action work (save for Toy Story, I guess ), I am not interested in seeing what he would have done. That's all I was commenting on.

Please show me anywhere in this thread...anywhere at all...where I stated "many times" how interested I was in seeing Whedon's vision. I believe I mentioned, once, that my vision of Diana needing to deal with people who are threatened by her preachiness is something that Whedon would handle well. That's my vision. My own. Not his. Hell, I've even openly stated that in some ways it's good Whedon is off the project because now we get flying and comicbook villains back. Others in this thread have been more openly appreciative of Joss Whedon than I have, and yet you home in on me because you know I'm a fan and lest we forget, in your worldview anyone who likes Joss Whedon must automatically have poor taste. Yeah, wow, you just soooooo have the higher ground, here.

And if you're referring to statements I've made in the past while Whedon was still on board, I don't see what that possibly has to do with what I've said now.

The fact you weren't speaking to me directly doesn't change the fact you're constantly disrespectful to differing opinions. Now I'm being disrespectful to you. It's fun.

I'm being disrespectful to opinions, and you're being disrespectful to another person? Oh a message board devoted to discussing opinions, and being disrespectful to other people is frowned upon?

I win again!

I never said they weren't there.

Okay. So even though I've given my reasons, and stated my points, I've still inferred that your opinions are "automatically wrong" for some reason. I see.

 

[bosef982]

I disagree with nearly everything he said, myself. But then, I don't carry pictures of Joss Whedon in my wallet either.

HUNTER



THis is what I was talking about.

 

[Hunter Rider]

HUNTER



THis is what I was talking about.

Well if you'd quoted that in the first place instead of something talking about a different aspect then I'd have known where you coming from on this.

Also i ask again,are we not all biased when our favs are in control or indeed shunted out in favour of a separate approach ?

 

[Katsuro]

While I wouldn't want Batman to have a gun, as a Batman fan, I'd have no problem with a Batman film being made directly from the early Kane/Finger comics.

Batman using a gun, and Superman being a Jap Hater are both rather embarrassing moments in their histories. Moments that most would rather forget. The WW2 aspect of Wonder Woman, however, is not embarrassing. It's not demeaning or offensive to the character in anyway. It's simply a different way, in a different time, to tell a Wonder Woman story. And that I have no problem with.

Yeah, but the fact is we'll only really get one Wonder Woman movie, at least for a very, very long time. If this were like comics, where writers can put out reimaginings and retellings and Elseworlds graphinc novels out pretty much whenever they want, then I'd be all for a WWII Wonder Woman movie or a Kane/Finger Batman film.

But if back in 1989 they'd announced their Batman movie would be like the original comics, and if i'd been more than 2 years old, I'd have been upset. The same would have applied for Begins. If they went through all this trouble to relaunch the Batman franchise, and I was expecting to finally see the Batman of Batman: Year One or the Loeb/Sale stories, and got Golden Age Batman, i'd have been dissappointed.

 

[green]

Wow, if its this bad over a script review I cant wait til the movie actually gets going. t:

 

[Katsuro]

Wow, if its this bad over a script review I cant wait til the movie actually gets going. t:

I've still very, very doubtful that they're going ahead with the period peice. My guess is that they liked the guys writing skills, and asked them to write a whole new present day movie. It'll probably retain some small aspects, but the majority will be a whole new film.

 

[The Sage]

LMAO, yes by all means, let's have a Steve Trevor movie. His comic books sell so well, and making the supporting cast the focus of the movie worked so well For SR lets do it again for WW!

Here's a radical idea for a super-hero movie, let's make the focus on plot, rather than character. Sure the outspoken emotional cripples will be lost without that empathizable character to nurture them where their mother's failed to, but the rest of us can be entertained by pulse-pounding action and some good old fashioned sex appeal.

That's so mean, LOL. Though I'm inclined to agree. Focus more on the good guy vs bad guy rivalry and less on the protagonist's internal conflicts.

 

[The Question]

Plot = conflict. Preferably external, while some think that anything other than internal conflict is "half assing it", others who got enough attn as children are perfectly satisfied with Good v.s Evil.

I'm just saying that there is way more to Diana than big action and sex apeal. I'm not saying that either of those are bad things, but if you have the potential to do something more, why not go for it?

This intellectual snobbery that angst ridden internal conflict is superior to external conflict with a compelling antagonist is complete rubbish.

I never said anything to that regard at all.

It's apples and oranges, and frankly I am sick to death with Donner's Kent dilemma that permeates throughout 90% of all super-hero movies. "Oh woe is me, my superhuman powers make my life so hard...

I never suggested that they should do anything like that with Wonder Woman.

I mean ya, that's a real part about CK and Superman, but c'mon. Get off teh formula already average movie goer.

If you guys want another batch of "Days of our spider-lives", so be it.

Again, I never said anything like that. Diana is not Peter Parker. Diana's problems and life are nothing like Peter Parker's. Nor are they anything like Superman's.

I like the notion of WW meets Gladiator/LoTR/any other great movie where a character develops through the interaction with an atagonist over internal reflections of past history.

Again, Diana isn't all about action. Sure, it's part of her life, but it's only one part. Centering the entire movie on a fragment of who she is just seems like taking the easy way out.

Can the hero cowboy the **** up in time? who cares...the fact that it's still an issue precludes him/her from being a hero in the first place.

Since when was Diana a cowboy?

Without a compelling antagonist or a significant conflict your character is a complete tool. Look at how strong Neo's arc was...

That is complete bull****. The internal conflict is just as valid as the external.

I want Gladiator good, not Spiderman II "good". You appearantly want a hug.

What the hell does "wanting a hug" have to do with wanting more than just an action movie with sex apeal?

 

[CConn]

HUNTER



THis is what I was talking about.

It seems we have a communication problem here. I'm CConn. I try to say something sarcastic every three paragraphs. That sentence was just that; a joke. Whedon hating is a running joke between me and zer00. It was little more than a laugh for myself and a few others "in the know".

But I apologize. It's obvious you're particularly sensitive. I'll try to be more careful around you in the future.